Reminder: Tier 5 Raid Tuning Coming Next Week

Big thumbs down. Completely against nerfing the content so drastically, when the Black Temple and Hyjal are not even available yet. Remember how your choices failed to reproduce the vanilla feel in classic? This is more of the same.

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Please just some give us some real clarity on what this means. It’s almost like the post is intentionally vague and designed to provoke confrontation.

Would be much happier if it was the minor nerf rather than the all out we are now being led to believe.

Stopping trash respawns would be an idea, it’s pointless to have them respawn within a two hour window.

Thanks

WhiskeyJak

According to some excel sheet - the nerfes are quite big. Including trash mobs and bosses. KT advisers get a 64 % HP Cut, that is , of course, if the sheet is true. Makes the content all in all not enjoyable.

Yeah I saw that and I’m really hoping it’s not

Please don’t nerf

Just want to be clear-- the “post-nerf” versions of the encounters unlocking with the next raid reset are the fights as they existed in Original Burning Crusade version 2.4.3.

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Is there a reason that you guys reverted on the idea of only nerfing the three bosses that were mentioned a few weeks ago by yourself (moro/vashj/Kael)? Why is it necessary to nerf all content prior to the next phase even starting? Will this be expected with BT as well?

So? you guys broke your promises with no layering, boosts etc. Might as well not change something that does not need to be changed.
Oh yeah - i think you forgot to replace prince malchezar with a female eredar… You boys are pathetic…honestly.Shamelessly taking advantage of the love people have for this iteration of the game and spitting on them.

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The “nerf” brought by time should have been enough. That is; experience that improves players and groups along with better gear - that together make old content easier. That way things become progressivly easier without changes. Isnt that the whole point with gearing?

Nerfing things and making them irrelevant are two different things. Like somebody said: We will spend more time listening to KTs monologue than fighting him.

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A real simple solution to find out what players actually want.

Sad to say blizzard doesn’t give a shi t about what players what so there’s that.

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good news.

Not really, not with T5 as a whole. T5 in general - and especially Vashj and Kael - were significantly overtuned. To the point that even the strongest guilds on the servers - the one made of people regularly pulling off orange/pink parses and treating WoW as almost a regular activity on par with a job - struggled with these encounters despite knowing the tactics in advance and having the benefit of prior PTR experience on top of it. Heck, T6 bosses as a whole are actually significantly easier than T5 right off the bat. T5 bosses have been the most nerfed in TBC history for a good reason (for comparison, T6 content stayed largely unchanged from 2.1 to 2.4.3 except for a few bug fixes, mostly on Archimonde).

According to some of you, nothing short of mythic difficulty is relevant.

People struggled even tho they were “good” - so what? Are people struggling (and by this you mean a wipe or two before a kill even for experienced guild) a bad thing? Can a parallell be drawn to them trying to “rush” the boss to get a better kill time? To some of the RNG elements of the fight?

The more they do a encounter and the better gear they get, the less the RNG will have a effect on the result - but it being atleast a part of the equation makes it more exiting.

You make it seem like one has to be a superhero to have killed 2 end bosses that were out for 3 months (which is more than enough time to farm the 8 other bosses to improve gearwise).

I myself am a part of a pretty much casual dad guild that play two times 3 hours every week. Initialy we didnt even see TK the first three weeks (because we ran out of time as we invested in SSC) and have more or less exchanged 50-60% of the guild - amongst them 3-4 tanks (never reciving better geared people than what left - losing alot of big ticket items in the process).

Am I a part of the “some of you” that want “Mythic”? Not even close, not by logs, not by ambition, not by anything.
Are we killing KT/Vashj however? Yes, Vashj for months even. Before the attempt where we finally killed KT we werent even close, then all of a sudden everything clicked and he died. Sweetest taste ever! The next week he fell on the first attempt - showing that experience, mentality and gear eventually nerfs any boss, without removing a sence of accomplishment.

Does this mean we never wipe there anymore? No, which keeps us on out toes and makes us appreciate evey kill.

If people havent killed Vashj and KT after 3 months and endless information /guides/ gear upgrades, then them not being “no lifers” or “hardcore” has very little - if any at all - to do with it. So drop that bs about how thats a factor and about how anybody that has killed them wants to “gatekeep” epics from you (which gives away where some peoples priorities are atleast).
I just want my Wednesdays and Sundays to feel rewarding, exiting and fun in the future aswell.

With everything said, atleast Im happy we killed them before the nerf. It would have been the biggest spit in the face by Blizzard to remove 3 months of struggle and the reward that came with finally doing it in the end. Cant believe some people acually want that, for what? 2 extra epics a week? Bunch of losers - Sorry not sorry.

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No, I don’t mean a “wipe or two”. I mean spending 4-5 nights a week raiding for at least the first two weeks of progress. And that’s after having spent weeks playing the raid on PTR before launch. And even beyond raid nights we’d often had to have briefings to analyze logs, share tactics, check class discords etc. This kind of effort may be fine for a world first guild or a speedrunning parsing guild. It’s not fine, IMO, if it’s required just to down the content in the first place with BiS gear from the previous phase and a near-perfect raid composition.

Care about posting logs? Because it seems like half the people on this forum like to just make things up, and the other half just have their own weird definition of what counts as a “casual dad guild”.

My guild name is right there next to my name. Look at the tanks changing, look at the progress (the 14 wipes during Sundays on Vashj), look at the improvement on the parts that we acually were able to “clear” in order to get more time on the bosses we struggled with. It all adds up. Ambition and improvement can still be a thing even with 8/10 in a dad guild - can it not?

Im not lying to you m8, why would I. At a point we pretty much stood between a disband or PUGing the last few spots - missing resets while recruiting everything and nothing meanwhile just to get a roster.

In the end it all just made the kill sweeter, and nothing could have made it better.

(Feel free to apply, could use a Mage ^^)

Except you were. Maybe you forgot, but if you look at logs, you can clearly see that, especially for the first month (but even as recently as 2-4 weeks ago) you often spent an extra raiding day (as in, 3 in the week - sometimes Wednesday/Thursday/Sunday, sometimes Thursday/Sunday/Monday instead) to progress on Vashj first, on Kael later (and you still took months to get 10/10 - for comparison, when I was still on Clown Wagon on my paladin, we got 10/10 much quicker, but we raided a LOT more than that at first). That matters a lot. Many guilds and people simply don’t have the time for a third raid night. That doesn’t mean they’re bad. But the game shouldn’t be tuned around having to spend that much time on the game in the first place. And T5 is a particularly bad offender of this.

For comparison, T6 is actually a bit longer, but much more forgiving. SWP is again pretty hard, but much shorter. WotLK raids are not only notably shorter (compared to T5), but you have flexible difficulty from Ulduar onwards so you can still train on the boss on Normal mode and gain the experience and gear necessary to face Heroic mode when time comes. T5 really stands out like a sore point in this respect.

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We spent a few Thursdays 3 weeks into Phase 2 (since focus was SSC - like said), trying to do PUGs so that people who felt they had time and didnt want to miss out on TK would get a chance.

Feel free to compare names (and how many of them are around now), how many are from the guild and so on during the hand full of Thursdays we did this on. If that makes this group of players “hardcore”, then I dont know low bar you set for yourself and your guild these months.

Trust me, the logs are there, there is nothing even remotely hardcore with these logs or the schedule.

  1. As I said, you spent more than 2 raids a week on KT as well, recently
  2. Not having people willing to raid 3+ nights a week on progress doesn’t mean having a “low bar” IMO. If you find that the raids are too easy because you can clear them in just 1-2 nights, roll an alt or something.

I always enjoyed reading your posts, but hearing you say that Vashj and KT are overtuned blows my mind. They are not. They require a little coordination and proper dps but they are not overtuned. Those “5 day raid” guilds and i hate to say it, are probably just bad.

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Says the guy who spends 4 hours per night raiding and still took 4 weeks to get Vashj down and 6 weeks to get Kael. Those “5 day raid guild” that you speak of had already got 10/10 before you even downed Vashj alone. Just saying.