Feedback: PvP Changes in Midnight

Earlier we shared our philosophy around some of the changes we are making in Midnight to better target Combat for Everyone.

We would like PvP to be more welcoming to new and returning players while retaining its current skill expression. Tackling this is a challenge we don’t take lightly because to learn PvP it requires learning how all the classes and specializations play which takes effort and patience. Beyond that, you have to track their own abilities, cooldowns, buffs, and debuffs as well as your teammates and enemies in real time in The War Within. This can become overwhelming, and we want players who are interested in PvP to have a welcoming first experience both in terms of gameplay and minimum knowledge for competency.

Some of the fun and depth of WoW’s PvP experience comes from skill expression in playing your class against others in a high pressure environment. Combat mastery continues to be a key skill to PvP success, and navigating your class against others in competition leads your team to victory.

We understand addons have become a vital tool in PvP over the years. A frequent experience of players that want to dive deeper into the higher tiers of our rated game modes, is that they are instructed by their peers to set up a multitude of addons to show important information to increase their odds of victory. We want to add some emphasis on existing UI elements and create new ones, which you will be seeing through alpha that will allow you to track important information in PvP, such as debuffs on nameplates (example shown below) and tracking diminishing returns (this will come in a future update).

Glad Mount Art Preview

We wanted to provide an early preview of the gladiator mount for Season 1 of Midnight, the Galactic Gladiator’s Goredrake.

We’re eager to hear your thoughts on these updates we’re making in Midnight and we’ll be sharing more information about PvP content in Midnight as alpha progresses.

4 Likes

Hello,

I’ve been testing your nameplates in arenas, and personally I feel that they are not quite good enough currently, especially as a melee player. I don’t think I’m the only one that rarely looks at the enemy player frame - only the nameplates, and the information in regards to them using defensive/offensive cooldowns is non-existent. I think you should considering adding something similar to BigDebuffs to the base UI as an option, even if the addon restrictions required for this addon is removed. This will give everyone a more clear visual on what’s actually going on in a PvP fight.

2 Likes

DR’s should be visible in any PvP situation: Arenas, BGs and World PvP.

Blizzard current nameplate Buff/Debuff tracker is horrible. We should be able to customize it and add/remove buff/debuffs we want to track not what you (Blizzard) think we should.

4 Likes

Blizzard should consider to change dampening to either only Affekt healers , so dps specs that relay on selfheal as def dont get wrecked Compared to Other dps- or change it from % less healing to % increase mana cost.

Target Frame Debuff Tracking Need improvement with big debuffs aswell

4 Likes

Hi team,

I have been playing the beta and I am a bit worried about the combat changes in regards to PVP. I Realize that we are still too early within the beta cycle - However, ignoring pure numbers and tuning, there are some points I would like to bring up:

Melee uptime:

Melee did not lose significant mobility relative to the caster utility pruning. As an example, it was very common as a mage to use blast wave immediately as the first warrior charge connected. Followed by Alter Time and weaving blinks as necessary in between. This is no longer possible and the only way this would be viable for the mage, would be to lower the warriors throughput damage.

DR:
Right now, it is not possible to track DR for @player. This makes it impossible to know when to play aggressive.

Very difficult to test on the beta when there is no level 90 templates.
As is, I am very concerned about the damage profiles and the lack of options that healers have and without proper balancing will be an absolute fiesta.

fix pvp trinket

fix DR trackers

its unplayable otherwise, every match lasts 2 seconds

As long as PVP isnt more accessible, it will never be a popular mode, and at the moment the game fails at the most basic level. Its impossible to tell what your abilities will do in PVP from the tooltips, and finding the pvp specific changes aint straightforward either.
Give us a PVP toggle button that allows us to see what our abilities do in PVP (actual damage modifiers, cc duration…).

People who play pvp have been doing so for ages and so they know most of this stuff or at least where to find it, but for most newcomers (or even returning players such as myself), figuring out how our abilities will perform in PVP takes a long time and lots of digging.

Just my 2 cents

4 Likes

this so much this

How you can REALLY improve PvP for Newcomers

  • Training grounds is a good step forward,
  • To make it effective, players need better instructions on objectives while waiting for the gate to open (maybe through an NPC shouting out the objectives in the 2 minute wait or a page in the adventure journal).
  • Many players currently don’t (seem) to understand the objectives at all

Streamlining Battleground Mechanics

  • BG Blitz and regular battlegrounds differ significantly, causing confusion amongst new players.
  • Streamlining mechanics between regular battlegrounds and BG Blitz would make it easier to understand.
  • If streamlining isn’t possible, see above paragraph about solutions to give clear instructions to players.

Casual-Friendly PvP Modes

  • BG Blitz used to be a non-rated brawl with gear scaling and solo queues.
    This casual format made PvP more accessible, but was shifted to a more elitist crowd (rated).
  • A dedicated, casual PvP mode against real players is desperately needed. If you queue this mode, gear scales. It should be solo queue to avoid premades.
  • This should be a viable option for both Random Battlegrounds and Epic Battlegrounds.

Adressing Premades

  • Premades create imbalance in random and epic battlegrounds and solo players are always the victim of this imbalance.
  • As stated above under Casual-Friendly PvP modes, create a solo variant of Random Battlegrounds.
  • Allow guilds, friends and other pre-made communities to queue, but exclusively against each other. Allow full raids to queue this version, or match groups together if they are short on people.
  • If solo players still want to enjoy the benefits of a premade queue, they can still join that queue.

Gear Progression Issues

  • Currently, players are forced to use Warmode or rated PvP to obtain viable gear.
  • This is because the power gap between Honor gear and Warmode / Conquest gear is immense. This creates an issue where casual players who just want to dip their toes into PvP stand no chance against players with Conquest or Warmode gear.
  • If there was a casual battleground experience as stated under Casual-Friendly PvP Modes, this would not be an issue as gear would be scaled.
  • Casual players or players who just want to dip their toes into PvP with real players shouldn’t be forced to also have to dip their own toes into open world PvP or rated PvP. They should be free to stick to instanced PvP and this should be a casual friendly, semi-balanced experience for them in order to maintain player interaction and invite new players into this part of the game.

Flag Carrying and Role Balance

  • Healers shouldn’t be forced to carry flags; right now in most cases they are the most viable.
  • Tanks should be made more viable for carrying the flag, right now some tanks feel absolutely useless.
  • Movement abilities should be nerfed when carrying the flag by increasing the cooldown time of movement abilities (reverse Blessings of the Bronze) and by limiting the speed of travel form. Instead of limiting the speed, disabling the ability of druid to shapeshift out of movement impairing effects while carrying the flag is also completely acceptable.
  • This is all to promote counterplay, because right now there’s very little counter play against a Vengeance Demon Hunter, Outlaw Rogue, Druid or Mistweaver Monk zooming across the map to cap flags.

Healer Queue Restrictions

  • After the healer rework which hopefully makes healer a more fun and engaging spec to play in PvP, healers should not be allowed to queue with friends in solo queue modes (BG Blitz).
  • A good composition of a DPS with a healer can control an entire game on specific maps. A devestation evoker and a preservation evoker for example, or a priest paired with an evoker.
  • A two-man team in the midst of solo players who have clear coms between each other should not be underestimated.
  • A solo queue mode should be a solo queue mode for all specs. If the above solutions are implemented, there’s plenty for healers to queue with friends.

More Clarity

  • Right now there’s no clarity in PvP. The tooltips show PvE values and PvE information. There’s no way of knowing what an ability will actually do in PvP.
  • It would be nice to have more clarity in how the matchmaking system actually works in order to create a transperant enviroment and take down some rumors about queue syncing or other myths like that.

Graveyard Camping

  • Graveyard camping is a big thing in this game.
  • Blizzard should make an effort into making it impossible to camp a graveyard.
  • Even in Deephaul Ravine where the graveyard is put up high so people can’t be camped, it’s still accessible. Players still find ways to get up.
  • If people are getting killed at one graveyard, they should be teleported to another graveyard when next they die. That way there is counterplay against graveyard camping.
  • If above situation is not possible, graveyards should be made completely inaccessible to the opposing faction and battlegrounds should be redesigned in order to facilitate this. It should also not be designed as a bottleneck where players are easily camped eitherway.
  • Why? This kind of gameplay is both frustrating, infuriating and toxic. Blizzard has a responsibility to the playerbase to make their game fun and safe. Blizzard will ban players for acting out of frustration, yet Blizzard is responsible for most of that frustration.

The Problem with Rated PvP

Rated PvP itself is in a dire need of a rework as well:

  • Rewards are uninspiring. Cosmetic rewards tied to achivements should exist across all brackets, casual and rated. Not just at the very top.
  • Progression feels punishing. Losing more rating than you can possibly gain makes the system demoralizing and unfair. This might not be the case for those at the top of the ladder, but the lower and mid brackets feel this heavily. It’s not inviting to play rated.
  • Queue times waste player time. Long waits make the mode feel unrewarding and only highter participation can fix this.
  • The rating system is broken. CR and MMR are poorly designed and even more poorly explained to new players, creating expectations that are unrealistic and end up in let-downs. It should be more simple. You’re 0 rating, you start at 0 rating. Not wherever the ladder is inflated to. In arena, if you win you gain, if you lose, you lose. But those values should never be greater than each other. In battlegrounds, playing the objective and damage should be rewarded. Even if you lose.

Final Thoughts

I’ll admit it’s not easy to suggest these changes, especially since I enjoy playing specs like outlaw rogue, vengeance demon hunter and virtually any druid. PvP has never truly been fair or balanced. Even in Classic, TBC or WotLK, which were amazing eras despite their flaws. Ideally, PvP shouldn’t be watered down into something overly casual. Yet the current problems are undeniable: engagement with PvP has been very low, new players don’t enjoy the experience most of the time and the game is incredibly frustrating to play. Blizzard hasn’t managed to solve them. With the studio leading towards quality-of-life improvements and more homogenized systems, Midnight feels like the right expansion to finally adress PvP in a meaningful and lasting way.

The proposals above would make PvP more accessible across the board:

  • New players experiencing battlegrounds for the first time.
  • Returning players who’ve avoided PvP but want to try again.
  • Players who have always prefered PvE but want to try battlegrounds.
  • Casual PvPers who enjoy the mode but struggle to stay competitive.

Better casual PvP doesn’t just benefit newcomers or dabblers. It directly strengthens the rated scene. When players enjoy casual battlegrounds, they’re far more likely to step into rated modes. This creates a natural pipeline: casual enjoyment fuels rated participation which in turn boosts competition and keeps the ladder healthy.

If achievements and and cosmetics are exciting enough, players will keep queueing:

  • Premade groups will have real purpose, like chasing achievements instead of farming solo players.
  • Rated interaction will stay active even late in the season when participation usually drops.
  • Competition becomes healthier, with rewards motivating players to play for fun and prestige rather than frustration.

PvP is not a side activity or a minigame. It has always been one of World of Warcraft’s defining features and no other MMO offers PvP on this scale. Yet right now, PvP is the only aspect of the game that can really drag my mood down.

I have a happy life, family, health, a job, stability. But queueing for PvP makes me feel miserable even when I’m winning.

  • Busy players are locked in. At the start of a season, gearing forces you down either the PvP rabbit hole or the PvE rabbit hole. If you have a busy life, you can’t choose both. You can’t just casually do a bg while you’re mainly doing PvE.
  • Game design compounds the problem. Constant slows, endless CC chains, confusing diminishing returns and one-shots that delete your health bar in seconds. New players don’t understand it, veterans get burnt out and toxicity thrives. Blizzard designed this enviroment and Blizzard is the only one who can fix this.

Blizzard. It is your responisbility to make PvP not only fun but safe. PvE has received countless casual-friendly improvements over the years. PvP deserves the same treatment. Why should PvP be the only mode in modern World of Warcraft that stays behind in the dark ages? Even Classic has more accessible PvP than modern.

If even two of the changes outlined above are implemented, the PvP community will definately grow and improve over time. PLayers will enjoy casual battlegrounds, premade groups will have meaningful goals and rated play will finally feel rewarding.

World of Warcraft PvP has the potential to be the best and most accessible in the genre but only if BLizzard chooses to make it so.

3 Likes

this is huge, been saying for years that tanks should have a role in pvp as well, and hard agree on all the points you made regarding premades..there have been countless posts about that issue specifically for months if not years now, listen to this comment blizz!

For newcomers, one of the bigger issues is the divide vs pve. How skills interact differently, that there are different coefficients for spells and that stuff like crit is perfect heavily too.

There’s no way to display that, we should be able to toggle tooltips and there should be training grounds explaining stuff like Dr, different categories, stat nerfs like crit dmg in pvp, different coefficients for spells etc.

2 Likes

My main gripe with Training Grounds is that

  • It’s limited to 3 BGs only
  • 2 of those BGs share the exact same objective, only differing in the amount 3 vs 5
  • They’d be better off using more modern bgs like Twin Peaks, Deepwind Gorge, Temple of Kotmogu or Deephaul Ravine. Silvershard Mines is the only good option since it’s one of the most unique bgs.