Trolls are kept from the Maw by Bwonsamdi.
But I think you underestimate the fact that if you put a magnifying glass on a part of the story (the burning of Teldrassil) you have to keep that magnifying glass there.
It has to be a rekevant plotpoint now because it was a big deal. I’m not sure if I’m right here but you seem to be suggesting there should be no pay off at all, which is kind of weird.
I feel like it’s less anything thematical, but more theatrical. Even if it’s not intended to be like that, it has had to involve that idea of dramatism overall. To provide a proper answer beyond simply waving a poster as a hater of x race or y RL people, that’s the best conclusion I can come up with personally.
It’s true, it is kind of a bit silly when they start off with Shadowlands with some, or one of the key figures literally saying something along the lines of “So many world’s souls being sucked into thhis vacuum” only to have a major focus on this particular people that belongs to this particular world in this particular universe in this particular reality.
But that’s just it. Dramatics and theatrics to something the player individual can relate to because they were visually seen in more ways than just “this happened to x race” and “that happened to x race before too, but it doesn’t matter now”.
Which leads to the Night Elves having greater focus because of it. You see it happen in a lot of protagonist-led stories in other venues and genres, which unfortunately just devalues it for the person who likes to think in a worldly sense.
Questions like:
“Why did this village of X hero matter more compared to the literally decimated city next to it that x hero hated visiting?”
Trying to understand an earnest situation is not suggesting that they should be wiped out.
Marketing IMO. They had a lot of hype by showing things like Jaina’s “I’m listening now, father”, and the escalation of the tree™ story.
But they do not have people to handle the consequences (with a usual narrative structure that requres the climax in the middle-ish section of a story that BfA was sold as), so we got what we got. It was just used as a plot and marketing devices.
Given the motherly aspect of Elune, the current arc is almos a repeat of Jaina-Katherine interaction that led Jaina to suddenly go pro-peace Thrall touching mood.
gl hf
I did not say he suggested that. I’m asking if he’s suggesting that night elves as a part of the story (and we the players) don’t deserve a satisfying closure.
EDIT: I’m not entirely sure why you thought I was asking anything else.
Bwonsamdi tried to keep them out of it, and only managed to do such to certain extent.
Still, they aren’t addressed as a major issue to be tackled across both factions board, nor is it called forth as key part of the control plan of one of the four major death realms.
No. I’m simply against making it such an important narrative issue that it needs to be addressed by everyone involved.
Mainly, because once you analyse the hyperbole Blizzard is selling us, and buy on the whole “Broken Death System” concept, the Night Elf loss is but a speck in an immeasurable bigger picture.
Essentially, what i said here 
It’s like the time Blizzard forced Alliance players into Thrall’s midlife crisis, or Horde ones doing likewise regarding any of Jaina’s emotional tantrums.
Well I would have prefered it if the Horde didn’t interact with Tyrande, but I can understand why they have to. Because the Horde is responsible for what they did to the Night elves, and Tyrande choosing her path was a direct consequence of the Horde’s actions.
Just like the Alliance players have been facing the consequences of the actions two warchiefs.
While this is true if you consider everything on a galactic scope, the night elves (and other playable races) are way more important. We get the story through them, after all. It is not a bad thing to zoom in on more “personal” stories.
Alliance → makes sure a bunch of races hate them
Those races → make a faction and go to war
Alliance → :o
Except with the problem that according to the info there is (A Thousand Years of War), there is only a handful of inhabited worlds left, and only Azeroth mattered (to Xe’ra at least).
According to Illidan Stormrage, there are only several worlds left besides Azeroth and Outland that were not completely annihilated by the Burning Legion
[Illidan novel]
Xe’ra confirms these statements, clarifying that there is only one of a handful of worlds left with life and that Azeroth is the only one that matters
[A Thousand Years of War]
©https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Planet
Question is, can the alliance act that way, and are there the devs who would portray it as “yeah, they asked for it”.
gl hf
Thing is, neither interaction is treated as part of some key feature in the overarching plot.
Sure, these were events that presented character development and a more precise way of tackling a specific character’s arch.
But contrary to them, the loss of a “handful” of beings, of a single race, of a single planet, of a single zone, is being addressed as a relevant hook that will define (as seen in the 9.1 PTR), how a full fourth of the cosmic Death System will work from this moment onward.
Thing is, the story isn’t framing it that way.
Night elves aren’t being saved because of Horde guilt.
The story is setting it as if their salvation had become key to the cosmos. To the point it’s tackled as step 5 of a 10 step plan in the correction of a realm that deals with the dead from all across the cosmos.
Tyrande is the one that now facilitates a substitute for the lost key of Ardenweald.
And the only victims that are particularly targeted in order to have them spared from this whole debacle the story presents us with, are this particular bunch of Night Elves.
You mentioned Bwonsamdi’s particular effort at saving trolls.
Would you honestly say that the salvation of those trolls that died at the siege of Dazar’alor, or fighting against G’huun and the Blood trolls, is something being given as much relevance as the deaths of those “few” Night elves in Teldrassil?
And how about all those that died during the Legion invasion? Or those that died to N’zoth forces?
Here we are talking about playable races too.
On a narrative level, why is it that only Tyrande is shown as caring enough in order to storm the Maw, grab at every Night elf soul there is, and get them out?
Should we assume that the rest of racial leaders don’t care as much as her?
That even Horde leaders/champions, that had their own kind dying at both elven hands or because of this same borked system, must be more preoccupied about rescuing Night elves, than for example rescuing Saurfang’s soul or that of all those that died during the Legion invasion and the past war?
Why is it that this particular loss, is to be considered so instrumental to everyone involved, to the point even their enemies must halt whatever they are doing and put aside their own interests, to tackle the issue of this particular bunch of people?
That’s the point i’m trying to make here.
A handful of worlds would still make this particular loss seem microscopic.
It’s already dwarfed by the deaths that have been happening since Legion on Azeroth alone.
Yes, well, about that…
!Spoilers! : https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/sylvanas-drops-trinket-with-saurfang-reference-in-sanctum-of-domination-raid-321891
This is not what I have been taking from the story, to be honest.
Does she? In what way?
The player saves other souls as well, just some souls are highlighted for nostalgia reasons.
Bwonsamdi claims he has been protecting Trolls from the Maw, this thus includes those mentioned above. Hence they don’t need more highlighting. But this goes back to what I said before about that magnifying glass.
I don’t disagree other races should get story relevance, too. But you really seem to be of the opinion “other races don’t get this, they shouldn’t either” while in fact it should be “all races deserve closures for their stories, or even just a story”.
She isn’t. She does not even do that. It’s you, the player.
It’s not a matter of who is caring enough. It’s a matter of who can manage it? Tyrande can (could) because of an ongoing arc. It’d be very strange and uninteresting if everyone could get away with it. What threat would the Maw then pose?
The current Horde story is righting their wrongs once more. Seems rather good to start where you went wrong first.
That’s my bad then. Your post indicated a lot of things and I will apologize for that, as not every Night Elf poster has this oddly bitter, ignorant, and unreasonable streak I’ve witnessed as of late.
Holding onto that hyperfocus scenario ideal, it isn’t really something that can be wholly helped in the end. In fairness, this meant that conclusively, even though I have grown to never love this hyperfocus style of plot-writing, it was going to lead there eventually. As evidenced by the past shenanigans and webs of plots that Blizzard has done.
These major plots have never really extended beyond a specialty niche that is pressed until dramatism or its value has been exhausted with a conclusive ending whether satisfying or not. In time, a new wave of tragedy will hit and that will be the new focus to look at and be shocked about instead.
The limitations of hyper-focusing really hurt. If not confuses quite a bit.
Do you mean what it currently does now? As in, not very much with most of the threat being - in my opinion - unconvincing fluff with no substance?
It’s just that. There isn’t… really any real threat to the scene as a whole, whether it is done by justifying mechanics with the story, or the absurdity of the player’s power as the aforementioned ‘maw-walker’ amongst a menagerie of other ‘maw-walkers’. Yes, that bit has been clarified in-game as well.
Not really something to be proud of when this, in fact, has been the second? third? w/e time the Horde has to ‘right their wrongs’ and ‘find their identity’.
The covenant campaign highlights such at the very beginning:
I see many things. Elven souls tortured in the Maw. A warrior of the night consumed by vengeance. And… Ardenweald’s destruction. These visions are ever shifting… ever vague. But I believe Tyrande Whisperwind is key to saving the night elves, as well as this realm.
And in this PTR build, we add on top of that, stuff like:
The Winter Queen spoke of a purpose for the souls of our people.
So, yes.
I’d say that the treatment given to the Night elf souls in particular, notably excels the rest of races that were apparently about as affected as them.
From the PTR quoted in the OP:
Shandris Feathermoon: So much beauty in her voice. And sorrow as well. The tear…
Tyrande Whisperwind: Was much as mine as hers.
[…]
<The barest hint of a smile graces the Winter Queen’s face before it is gone. She turns her attention to you with the weight of eons.>
Attend me, . Take my sister’s tear and come to the Heart of the Forest.
Again, another instance where Night elves, and Night elves alone, are given the dominant position and relevance in what appears to be an instance where their leader becomes instrumental in saving a realm that spans across all reality.
I disagree that they are solely highlighted because of it. Specially given the relevance the act itself apparently has, and that is pointed out before and after doing such.
I’ll repeat what i said before:
The issue isn’t that they are getting the spotlight. The “issue” that i find here is that they are being given such dominant spotlight over pretty much everyone else, and at a time when the problem at hand, is supposed to be affecting everyone across the universe.
No, i’m not talking about them not getting any attention at all. I’m talking about the fact that said attention should’ve been spread more evenly across the race board.
If Night elves were to have their particular cathartic trip about saving the souls of their people, and stop Tyrande from dying, then so be it. But it should’ve not been the dominant feature to be had regardless of race.
Because, as of now, they are doubling on it to such extent, that its the major plot hook of a full fourth of the endgame content…in a setting that should at least attempt at tackling the story of other 13 playable races.
What’s going on with Tauren souls? What is the Forsaken take in all this?
Where are the Orc souls going? Where is their “Ancestral spiritland”? I mean, for all that’s worth, the only reference to these guys issue is apparently having Saurfang’s soul presented as a trinket.
And the most alienating part of it for me, is the fact that this uneven story spotlight isn’t being presented as an organic continuation about “making amendments”: Night elves are being literally Deus Ex machina’d into a position that apparently makes their salvation be in some way instrumental for the fate of the entire cosmos.
It reeks of the most artificial and blatant attempt at complaint quelling that writers just decided to introduce into the story.
Like “Sorry about what happened last year. Here, take this story where you are shown to be so so very much important to reality itself”.
Going back to topic: Wasn’t Tyrande already royally pissed with Sylvanas and the Horde even before going through the Night Warrior transformation? Like, I remember her exchange with Anduin about wanting a peace treaty signed with the banshee’s blood, and that happened before she was a Night Warrior. I really dislike her going all peaceful and forgiving after the Horde murdered thousands of innocent civilians.
Then again, I’ve long since given up on any coherent storytelling on Blizzard’s part. After 14,000 retcons, I can hardly take anything they say at face value.
Sure thing. Talking about importance in a place that is isolated from the rest of the GDB, and a “pve” occasional focus in convenient places (while the key part of the Shadowlands story is stated to be Anduin-Sylvanas part), is totally what was needed and can be considered a pay off for the “pvp” events happening few times before. Like, those are totally the same crowds, and every player finds every part of content important, and participates in all of them.
I am sure that is how some people at blizzard tried to reason about. But in reality this possibility never existed. I had a big break from WoW but I clearly remember that both times doing BGs for legendaries was mandatory (MoP & WoD), players loathed that, because those are different areas for different demographics. So, sadly, no PvE “win” can ever be a compensation for a PvP loss.
Just like many things “should’ve not been”. But things happen when it’s convenient. The devs thought, that having 1 display of Tyrande in a covenant campaign and 1 chapter in 9.1 is something “good enough” to close the story of the 4th war.
It very well could be.
This motivation is likely, won’t work, and could not.
The devs consider things… differently it seems, regardless of what was there.
It sure stinks, but if the devs have obsession with telling a story where Anduin’s take is right, and everything else must be sacrificed for it, including consistency of the story, the current narrative team is happy to do so.
gl hf
Yeah, I see your point. On the other hand, it would feel very empty if night elves weren’t involved in a story that involves Elune. That’s like a Loa story without Trolls.
Same reason as above.
Thrall was in this position back in Cataclysm. With arguably bigger importance because it had Azeroth as it’s central story.
I don’t think I can do anything but point at the magnifying glass again. The Night Elves were hit hardest in BfA, far more than any other race. It’s only logical that this is addressed accordingly.
Yeah I can see why it feels that way. They have not handled the whole Teldrassil + Night Warrior story well at all.
Well maybe the devs think saving the night elves souls from the maw is enougth to justify her calming down.
It isnt and its a bunch of crap but it also worries me more now that if she is over her vengance does that mean sylvanas will live at the end of the upcoming riad.
Sylvanas will definitely survive the upcoming raid. Bilzzard already told, that the raid will just impacts on her future development. So, we already know for sure that she will lives.
urgh ok now i am glad i only have a mounth left of sub, there obsession with her is ruining the lore and that all i really care about anymore in this shambles of a exp.
Though i cant say im not 100% surprised by this i guess th idea of Tyrande and the night elves ever getting revenge on her was slim.
Downplaying it as if it was “Just 1 appearence, in 1 chapter, in 1 covenant” doesn’t really negate the fact that the story has given this particular racial plea, a staple and relevant role in the overarching plot of the expansion.
For all the memes, and trolling, Ardenweald campaign DID in fact end up being exclusively about Night elf content.
The fact that the endgame seems to insist on it, further proves that’s the case: Whereas the others focus on more neutral plots that tackle the overall issue, this one has ended being, much like Val’sharah, about Tyrande in particular.
There is no way around the fact, that this is indeed favouring the narrative of 1 race, over that of 13 other.
And it turns a blind eye to the simple fact that not everybody logs in to experience yet another plot about a particular race they may or may not ever play.
They could’ve without being this overbearing.
And of that particular example you named, how involved are trolls with the whole Bwonsamdi/Loa bits? Because as of now, the scales aren’t even remotely close to the spotlight NEs in particular are having.
Taking a look at another angle: Maldraxxus displays the usage of Blight as a means of war, it glorifies the strength and potential “Honour” of necromance practices, and presents alternatives that give meaning to a prolonged undead existence.
Does any particular race come to mind that could’ve had a say or natural involvement with any of the above?
What has the Forsaken role been with any of that?
I’d say that it was still shared with Malfurion (in fact, i’d be hard-pressed to find a notable world threat plot where Malfurion didn’t play a big role), but sure, lets take it as a valid comparison.
How did it feel on a narrative level? What was the backlash to said story approach?
Debatable when taking into account the death toll of the 4th war alone.
And if you are to sell us on a disaster of cosmic proportions that affects the entire reality, and started all the way back to Legion, the deaths of a single group, of a single race, in a single zone, is insignificant.
Said number is dwarfed by the losses against both the Burning Legion and the Old Gods. Both of which were about as affected by said events.
The only reasons i see for this obvious spotlight pampering, is because Blizzard wants to prolong their tear-jerking elf narrative arch, while also offer something to appease the angry elf mob.
It sounds rude, and blunt, but it’s how it all feels.
And yeah, i may be biased in certain takes, but i still think that objectively speaking, there is an obvious imbalance regarding how much narrative care Night elves have, when compared with the majority of other races.