Would you rather Tyrande had gotten the Sylvanas kill, and then died in the process like every other Night Warrior before her?
Or is this one of those cases where you want to double on the “good shady stuff”, but still be spared of the consequences of it like she is having now?
And what exactly is the consequences sylvanas is facing if she lives?
THAT is my problem and my fear that she will just forget her anger towards her (which she had before becoming the night warrior) and just go “oh she was used by evil now i think she deserves to live”
Id be fine with Tyrande either dying but getting her revenge or curing herself from the night warrior power but still ending sylvanas but not her curing herself and just seming to forget her anger and loss.
There is a reason why in visual media one of key concepts is “show, don’t tell”. How it is portrayed, what is the context / interconnection to other thing, timing - those things matter among others. It’s importance could be however one could imagine, but if their downfall is used as a promo and marketing material shown to millions, this is nowhere near the scope or place to address that.
It’s not exclusive. And unless you follow “trees = night elves” idea, there would not be a way to portray it like that. Just like Elune is no longer “it’s just about night elves”, thanks to the way the story unfolded.
Yes, night elf themes occupy at least half of it. But calling it “exclusively” is “downplaying” all else there is.
The only fact there is - inability of the devs to tackle the problems they’ve created. And the only purpose I see in that chapter of the Shadowlands story is to run away from what they did by giving random things, annoying people, and pretending like that is good enough.
Yeah. Just like not everybody else wanted a story of Sadfang and plot-armoured Anduin in BfA. Or what was done to the forsaken. Or what was done with orcs. Or the 
they made for Yrel, because we have so many draenei characters in the story. And list goes on.
Can’t this be said about most questionable decisions made by blizz?
After playing through Maldraxxus story, I would say it’s through and through orc-themed one. The ideas, the whole “honour” theme, the “kind of warmonger, but for good reasons” approach, competition, wannabe brutality - all themes scream “orc” to me. But it’s covered in scourge imagery, while not representing neither the scourge nor the forsaken when it comes to the concepts upon which those were built afaia.
That at the time when factions were not turned into worthless source of troubles in the narrative, the alliance wanted the alliane centered story, and the horde wanted to be heroes of the horde.
The problem only became worse, as the “grand finale” of the 4th war, and the “faction pride” is Sadfang screaming “for Azeroth”. Nothing says “faction pride” as much as not acknowledging it in the climactic moment, and claiming that this is a hero of the horde - the one who does not even do it for the horde.
Should that be portrayed that way - we could discuss it from that angle. It was sold as a huge event on the only realm in the universe that matters. And will be looked upon through these lenses. Because the devs chose that path. And will have to get to the bitter end of what they created for themselves, while poisoning the story for the players in the process.
Old gods are an odd thing. According to Chronicles they did not even bother corrupting Azeroth while they had full control in the days of the Black Empire. Where will it all go - who know.
By the time Legion started as expansion most worlds were already scoured of life, while the “machinery of Death” was broken during the Legion time frame. There is even an NPC from one of invasion points, that could be found in Maldraxxus, Azerothian NPC from the rogue class hall, and so on. So those who were killed by the Legion prior to the assault on Azeroth were not thrown into the Maw indiscriminately.
That won’t help, because the source of anger is continuous portraying of the race as a tool for PvP narrative, and the events happening are for the PvE crowd.
If you want to complain about something, #1 offender is the fact that Anduin-Sylvanas story is supposedly the key for the Shadowlands narrative. So, everything happens in the context of those 2.
I would rather prefer the alliance calling those who stood for the horde post the tree™ as enemies and the narrative would go in “there is a price to pay” direction.
The story where alt-Draenor events are not shrugged off and orcs are not forgiven by the draenei.
But it’s not the story the devs are capable of telling.
Given that the narrative forgave those who stood next to Sylvanas after the whole debackle, I think it’s not unreasonable to wish for the story where the horde races are utterly demolished, the alliance hop into another dimention to fight a big bad with all the narrative telling that they should be forgiven, and the pay off for the horde would be a dozen quests to tell them how for some reason they are oh so important, and it’s good that they were killed, since they can help the whole universe (or what is left of it) because of that. Not to mention that in the scope of “the entire universe” their deaths would not matter much, right?
gl hf
This is bordering on spoilers but I think the devs said Sylvanas will have a very important choice to make in the upcoming tier. My interpretation of that is she will, at the last moment, turn on the Jailer and use her BS powers to teleport us away to safety.
Either way, Sylvanas will most certainly survive, which is quite unfortunate. Kerrigan 2.0 incoming. But hey, at least Kerrigan had some BS excuse for her actions, like some pseudo mind control.
At what point, in all of the datamined info, was it ever implied she had let her anger towards her go away?
The fall of Lordaeron was also used as marketing/promo material. And yet its a fact that gets consistently sidelined by the story.
And nothing prevents Night elves from having their own cathartic conclusion of their arch.
The jarring bit is having it all smeared across the rest of players that have to also put up with their own story bits (which may or may not ail from the same need of attention), be put on hold.
Yes, it is exclusive.
The endgame content, and a relevant chunk of its development, hinges on Night elf issues. Be it about saving Night elf souls, reading Ysera glorify them, tagging along Tyrande, and as seen from the PTR, now having it all end with an Eternal One declaring how relevant their kind is, and how instrumental Tyrande in particular was in correcting their ongoing issue.
It’s been a long way since the thematic complaints (which by the way, remain in place and permeate the zone). Now, the entire covenant campaign ends on the note of “Night elf souls are very important”, and “Tyrande has just given us the mean to save Ardenweald”.
So yes, it’s definitely far less “neutral” than ending up working for Odyn to retrieve his eye, or unveiling a Dreadlord infiltration in Revendreth.
How much about Sylvanas or Anduin have we had so far in Shadowlands?
Neither are involved in the covenant campaigns, questing zones, or endgame content.
I’ve yet to meet either since i first arrived to the zone.
No, no. The “fall” and deaths of citizens in Undercity were not used. Only the pre-battle and opening imagery.
Read the first post. “I was as much of a witness as you were”.
Oh really? Do we already have a fight incoming against the ones who stood in defence of Lordaeron, for Syvlanas post the tree™ story? Did the narrative acknowledged that the horde interests are of no importance to the alliance anymore?
(although it’s just my take on the story)
That is right. Instead of having at the Orgrimmar character that by all means should be there, it was placed aside. So, the same horrible treatment is expected in other areas as well, where the devs take or ignore plot lines on a whim.
Not all of it.
Yeah, I see that you ignore in covenant interactions, loa bits, drust, etc. Sure, night elf part is sizeable, but it’s not exclusive as you pretend it to be. Now, if all of the 9.1 campaign would be an in-depth exploration of the things in the night elf interests, you would have a point. With 1/8 chapters tackling Ardenweald and having 1 scenario and half a dozen qeusts that also touch other themes - not buying your take.
PvE themes are inconequential for the PvP narrative where the problems were created.
All of it revolves around the consequences of their action. I have reminders of Anduin on a regular basis through the Bastion campaign [that involves the Maw]. Every week of Torghast / Maw. Every time Uther is on the horison the whole thing shapes into “how do we place the elements of the story to save Anduin down the line”.
gl hf
Those are some weird lines being drawn.
So, Teldrassil is destroyed in the pre-expansion patch, with an entire questline and a cinematic. But somehow, the fall of Lordaeron, that was teased in the announcement cinematic, served as intro for the expansion, featured 2 ingame cinematics, and later on was referenced in additional CGI ones…isn’t really as relevant?
This seems like double standards.
Yes.
There is no need to have any particular racial issue splattered across the playable experience of everyone involved. Specially if it reaches a point that it swallows what should’ve been more neutral content.
Come 9.1, Tyrande’s plot amounts to what seems to be a full third of the endgame campaign narrative arch (The other two being splintered over the Dreadlord scheme and Odyn’s Eye plots).
And that’s something, that I’ll repeat does nothing but highlight an ongoing unbalance regarding the time certain races spend under the spotlight.
The whole point of the Ardenweald campaign concludes in Tyrande saving it from the Mawsworn, creating a Tear of Elune as substitute for the lost key, and the Eternal One in charge of the place, declaring that Night elf souls have a greater purpose in Ardenweald.
Regardless of the embleshiments found along the way, its entire overaching story still hinges largely on Night elves, their leader, and their themes.
Declaring otherwise is very disingenuous
And again, i’ll repeat that i’m not against having certain degree of closure for their story, or even to highlight their ties with the place. But it’s reached a point that it’s overshadowing everything else.
As i said, the ending of said questline focuses on saving Tyrande, and having her save the entire realm.
That’s a weird take.
Because what you are doing is basically dismissing the story bits that aim at rebuilding the race (Be it by saving its people from hell, or sparing their leader from a sure death).
Would you rather the story had focused on Tyrande dying in her enraged state (which was the path she was heading towards), while also condemning the victims of Teldrassil to the Maw by not having the bits that tackle their state, for as long as you got to give a swing at Sylvanas?
Source, please.
We know that she still has to make a very important decision, but she might make that during the raid. She doesn’t have to survive it.
And we know there will be a novel about her in November, but that could be a post mortem.
I mean, it’s likely that we won’t be rid of her, yet, but as far as I know it is by no means confirmed.
i said it is my fear that she will not that she does i hope i am wrong but i have little faith she will get any sort of justice for her crimes from Tyrande
Well of course. Attack on Undercity that is just starting during the cinematic, and its tone with Sylvanas smiling to Anduin is a totally same thing as the place burning full of civilians, sold as the moment that started it all, are indeed the same in mood, aftermath, and which souls were permanently destroyed (who was not lucky enough), and context (the forsaken are shown to regularly lose to the alliance after forgiving them for 1 action after another, am I right?).
I know there are some theories that maybe the Undercity part should’ve been 1st. But it wasn’t.
Sometimes it does. But this time it’s not that time. In the Shadowlands, and in general post BfA IMO the alliance and the horde paths should start leading in different directions and be presented via faction specific characters and in appropriate to the side fantasy context.
Blizz decided to pick a cheaper route for them. And we’re paying the price.
Like, ok, I find it interesting to chat to people, and discuss with you and the others different takes on the story to see different perspectives, what people like, perceive as relevant, etc., or to challenge my own arguments to see if my perspective holds any ground at all.
But there are also less fortunate people that I am currently, who are stressed irl, might be stuck at home with horrible people, who experience plenty of problems at work / school / whatever, and when they come to the place where they seek to get away from some of it, they might see the devs all over the last place they have as a hope at maybe brighter times one day.
It’s kind of ironic that among people leaving blizzard instead of thinking “am totally supporting the devs over those greedy publisher” I see accursed Kotick as a hope, that if the expansion struggles financially, we might be liberated from the people trying to replace what people liked and bought the game for, by validation of their own fantasies.
The whole problem of Ardenweald campaign is that it’s typical way of WoW to tell the story - to hop from topic to topic with next to no substence to each of them individually. We do not learn about Fizandi, we do not learn more about the drust, we do not learn about the details of loa and how they came in contact with troll to begin with, or other details, do not go in depth into what Ardenweal was before the WQ was fancy with her trees, etc.
Yes, it’s possible to tie over a half of them to the night elves. Does it accomplish anything other than irritating those who are not interested in night elves, or shoving to night elf players a substitude to adressing the problems? Sadly, in the “best” BfA tradition, it leaves many people disappointed by how shallow or misplaced a lot of it is.
There is no weird take. People loathed when they had to do PvP for PvE progress, and vice versa. Those crowds are barely overlapping.
People who care about history of night elves, or their interaction with nature / Dream / wild creatures, barely care about burning orc huts. And those who like the idea of stomping horde buildings, or would like to embrace the days of conquering empire, do not care much and tree-hugging take on the race that replaces in WoW the image night elves were presented with originally.
So, no, they are not the same people, and not the same interests.
Yes, blizz is obsessed with trying to make all people do all things. High PvP participation is called a good thing, instead of talking about how miserable PvE itemisation. Everyone now must love Torghast, because otherwise no legendaries. Garrisons were mandatory. Pushing places in the conted content to people who are not interested in it, is somehow seen as a good way to go. Why? I have no idea, it did not work before, and I doubt it will in the future.
I can only talk about my take on things. And my take on things is that I am unhappy with the devs utterly destroying the faction idea in the game. And what I would like to see is someone like Tyrande in her former state being in control of the alliance, and character like Rokhan or Lilian “do whatever it takes” Voss to guide what the horde is.
The horde IMO should be above all else heroes of the horde, and the alliance to care about the alliance.
Depends on how much of actually those who caused the problem, would be taken in the process. Yes, one of my preferred ways of wrapping up her story would be to force the night warrior power onto Sylvanas, and utterly destroy both in the process. Ideally - with Anduin as well. Tyrande would make Azeroth free of those 2. Would be true hero IMO.
First of all, it’s the players who take the souls out of the Maw, provide anima for realms, etc.
Secondly, those who are guilty in the events decided to stay behind in the intro scenario of the Shadowlands atop the ICC. Those who stood for Sylvanas are the problem, not the take on Tyrande you mention here.
I would prefer a different direction for the story, but my wishes are not all that relevant for where the story will actually go.
The book summary iirc, mentions Sylvanas and her choice.
gl hf
Yes, but not when the choice happens. It’s a book about her whole life. Might be during 9.1, might be after.
Fairly certain her “choice” was whether to enslave Anduin or not. I’m sure the book will go into why she did it, since for whatever reason the narrative treats that as her final line, instead of literally everything else she has done.
If you want to market on feelings alone, then the loss of their homes, the refugees that fill Orgrimmar, and the knowledge that it was all because of an act of betrayal from the one they considered their protector and leader, is about as deserving of attention as the loss the Night elves have.
If you want to argue that your own preferences or bias, puts one above the other, then I have no problem about it.
But fact remains that only because you think Night elves are “more deserving” because you think so, it doesn’t mean they are not hogging the spotlight and narrative time far more than the majority of races.
Again I ask then: Would people have been far more satisfied if instead of helping the race recuperate, Blizzard had instead burnt it over with an abrasive plot about vengeance that included leaving the souls of the dead in the Maw, and Tyrande ultimately dying after enacting her vengeance?
So, in this precise case, what is it?
Blizzard seemingly decided that the best way going forth was to moderate and partially counter the harm done to the race (with stories such as rescuing the souls and saving Tyrande from getting consumed).
And yet, people complain about it.
Would you rather they had simply burnt her away in a vengeance plot that ended with her dead for as long as she had the chance of getting Sylvanas?
Either way, why should this be a story of my concern?
Why should I, who hypothetically speaking has zero interest in Night elf issues, be forced to play through any of that while my favoured race remains blatantly sidelined even in scenarios that are supposed to tackle neutral content?
Why should this whole NE issue play such a huge part on what should’ve been my neutral content?
Why can’t I, troll player, have an entire covenant dedicated to my leader hardships instead of playing second fiddle even in the troll afterlife, while the one in charge keeps on praising some other race?
Yeah I’ve been telling the panicked Night Elf fans for ages now, Tyrande will not die after Teldrassil. Even Blizzard knows that’s pushing it.
Also, from what I understand, turns out that Elune is the Winter Queen’s sister after all. That puts Elune into a completely new perspective. This, to me, is the most interesting part of the plot.
Am I disappointed that Tyrande gets to live another 10000 years? Meh, not really. I couldn’t careless tbh. We’re used to the Alliance thick plot armor by now. I know that the Night Elf fans will find a way to complain about any outcome anyway, it doesn’t really matter. If the teasers are anywhere close to the truth, Teldrassil will also regrow. I see the Night Elves recovering quickly and be stronger than ever.
The Horde on the other hand… facepalm
Be careful what you wish. This line of thinking might fit the protective / motherly approach of Calia Menethil that would completely change the identity of the forsaken should she stay among the horde.
IMO a better basis to rebuild the forsaken would be to highlight that they managed to survive and endure before, and that in the time of doubts and troubles it is the forsaken being resourceful and experienced - that is what can help the horde as much if not more than the horde can help them.
Or at least that is how I saw the racial fantasy, that even though beaten by the destiny, they still stand and try to move on. Now, where would they move on - that’s a different debate.
For now, the devs trying to do something with their decision to capitalize on the shock events. So, that is a warning to those who would seek for more of the current dev attention.
I would argue, that one part, being taken, and used for the benefits of the devs, to use the elves as a tool yet another time, and use it to raise emotions and negativity, with the devs straightforwardly saying that they want the players from opposing factions to hate each other.
So, I would want to see them having to take resposibility for that, and be dragged again and again into the fact that such things they created can’t be dismissed on a whim, or placed on hold whenever they feel like. And the other players IMO could observe and see what the devs actually going to do and how they treat their players. So that with handling other races it would be possible to take those lessons into account and not repeat the mess they created with the elven story.
Of course, it’s also possible to dilute attention and instead of not allowing this story to go, to push the devs to do other stuff and explore other things. Which might be nice for some short-term, to see less of annoyed people, but will greenlight repeating the that was made here, also on other characters, races, etc.
If the half or so of all the stories there were across Shadowlands would be about elves problems on Azeroth, I would agree with you.
As is, this is ridiculous statement to me. The biggest offender on the alliance side and a narrative blackhole is the concept of “high king”, which cannibalized the progression of all the races with Varian, where the story of the faction turned into addition to a single person, and now the same thing happens with Anduin, and the story being about “why Anduin is amazing, and you should be like him”.
Not to mention how much damage to the game in general it did (if we assume that faction are indeed one of core elemets of WoW, and the story direction that just mocks the faction identity is not a good thing to what made the game what it was).
So, no, I can’t agree that this can be considered a problem. Devs making a choice not to tell a story of death aspect of druidism via Bwonsamdi-Darkspear evolution is not a problem of elves. They all the time find time to do things like flappy birds imitation, or implement dozens of anima items with identical purpose (be blessed) and no description, or poop quests, or a bunch of world quests which in their mechanics did not evolve 1 bit. There is time for all of those things somehow.
So, if your favourite race does not get the spotlight, that is not because everything is great and the devs just pandering to some “toxic” night elf fans. It’s because they made a conscious choice, to make the story of the shadowlands, that should by all accounts progress so much from forsaken, to takes on religions of Azeroth, and so many races - instead, to blatantly say that the key story line of the expansion is Anduin and Sylvanas. Night elves are far from the biggest problems of the game. But overall handling of the story is one of problematic aspects for sure.
First of all, a bunch of souls already lost permanently. Secondly, it’s what the players do, not Tyrande. So, what is the point to claim that direction with Tyrande has much to do with the players visiting Torghast, sometimes many times a week, I have no idea.
Depends on the execution. If that would allow to show futility of all the Jaina-Saurfang-Anduin things, would allow me to call them traitors and say “you save yourself from Torghast” - yeah I would pick that road in a heartbeat.
The idea that “vengeance is bad” is goofy topic, that relies on not defining the term to begin with. The whole law system, in any place I visited (although I’ve been only to half a dozen countries, so, not much) also makes the punishment for crimes more severe, the more severe the crime is.
It would be “vengeance” IMO only if the goal would be to pring not the retribution, but disproportional suffering, in comparison to things committed. And so far I am not sure that there are many things that realistically could come even close to what the destroyed souls went through, thanks to our green (and not only) skin friends (actually, thanks to writers who dragged the horde into that mess, but that’s a meta-approach to the story).
Oh, if you want to discuss in-depth the factions, narrative opportunities they provide, etc., we could do it in a separate topic maybe this weekend. So far it’s not only offtop here (even more than I usually go), but also, despite today being a chill day, might be a busy week. But I do not mind to discuss with whoever would be interested, what do people think about factions, when they were good, when - bad, what was nice, what was awful, and so on.
Of course they do. And they should. Should the players let them stick to that kind of handling the story, even more harm will be all over the place, with total demolishing of what made WoW actually WoW to begin with.
With the idea of “eh, let’s give them a coulple quests here, a couple there - and that would be good enough pay off. Or, even better, let’s write a book! You know, it would work so well, when you showcase how we destroy something, and instead of fixing or addressing the thing, would just handwave, write a few lines of text, and try to call it a day.”
I get that short term getting over the tree™ story seems like something that would make people’s lives easier. But it’s a terrible road to follow towards destructive future.
In a sense it’s good that the night elf players are so stubborn, because it allows to showcase the moral bankruptcy of the narrative (despite the devs talking about morality and dragging irl morals into the fantasy game for who knows what reason), and atrocious handling on consequences of the events. Now, if while being as relentless they would also not insult others, that would be even better.
Depends on the execution, I said it before. If that would allow to drag Sylvanas (and maybe others involved) in the process - I do not think too many players (who feel emotion about the thing) would call her anything but marthyr giving away her life for justice in a world where no lives matter if you’re not a dev favourite.
I told you before, that this is a cheap take by the devs. What would improve the story? Well, how about the stories about Elune, etc., be told by other characters?
So, maybe, instead of asking blizz not to deal with the consequences of the mess they created, it would be better to ask not to waste more time on a yet another iteration of -collection quests, which there are many across the game (too many IMO), but to use the resources to give more scenery to, say, lunalai of zandalari? Or, since Mueh’zala is “night’s friend”, to do it through lenses of Bwonsamdi? Or to discover more about why blood elves (high elves) went from moon-worshipping to “may eternal sun guide you”.
I mean, I might be wrong, but it seems like that would be a more interesting way of doing things rather than “hop in, destroy what people love, then use comments about “we had too much night elves” as a precedent to just drop inconvenient plotlines whenever feels convenient”.
That’s like asking “where the hell is shamanistic ancestory / paladin-ish Light related afterlives”. Well, these are good questions to ask. Why they devs instead of continuity pick a part of a character / event and turn the rest into a mess. Or why do they think that ignoring the feedback in the story area is a good thing (other than ego-obsession). Or why they pick convenience over properly developing story, with attention to details, and clear narrative structure.
Those are all valid questions that the devs will have to answer eventually. In a way, we’re all in it for the same goal - so that the devs would respect what the players bought the game for, and instead of downplaying events, would focus on proper resolution to whatever they do.
And not to do what they did - to use the suffering and hatred as marketing materials and they try to run away from consequences and pretend that this is resolution to the problem.
gl hf
Id settle with the sort of rebuilding attention Night elves are having.
Sparing their leader from certain death? Having her praised as the saviour of the realm of the dead?
Having their population being acknowledged as instrumental for the cosmos?
Hints at regrowing their home back?
Please, bring it on.
Can’t they?
After two villainous Warchief plots, and two civil wars, the Horde has had its issues dismissed by having it play second fiddle to Alliance driven neutral plots in both Shadowlands and Legion.
So yeah, of course they can, and have, be dismissive for any issue they want.
This logic is grasping at reasonings that have never bothered writers.
No. That doesn’t work that way.
Having other neutral stories does not negate the fact that Night elves are getting undivided attention in the overarching story of an entire covenant.
And fact is, that NO OTHER race is getting such spotlight in the current expansion.
To put it bluntly, even if NEs represent a 25% of the overall narrative arch, the rest of playable races remain close to 0%.
So yeah, they definitely are getting way more time under the spotlight, than any other playable race.
To the point their issues are no longer tackled in their own story niche, and instead are highlighted for every player to experience.
To be more precise, is Shandris doing.
She has us players freeing and seeking Night elf souls.
Souls that are then labelled as instrumental for the covenant future.
So yeah, the story very much focuses on having the player save them in particular.
So, on top of forcing on what should’ve been neutral content for every player to enjoy, the issues and interests of but a particular group of players, Blizzard should’ve devoted even MORE resources to appease them?
Because apparently, having quests that aim at mending the harm done (saving the souls of NE), plots that glorify the race importance, and a conclusion that prevents their leader from dying while also ending up hailing her as a hero that just saved the cosmos, isn’t enough???
And in the meantime, other races like the Forsaken are left leaderless, homeless, without a story or narrative to call their own, and zero development to look up to in the next three to four years (like it happened with both orcs and trolls before them)?
Your really don’t see how that’s a problem?
If they get a free pass, of course they will. And IMO if not for the commercial troubles of BfA there would be no “we’re listening for feedback”. Which is a step in the right direction. A small one (given the actual work with the feedback), but it’s something that is better than the former “just wait” / “you do not see bigger picture” / etc.
It’s not undivided though, otherwise the would be no Bwon / Drust / Pelagos running around.
If you mean overall, of all the quests in the Shadowlands, then it’s not 25%.
Getting screentime in other places would’ve been indeed a good thing. More Zul’jin, maybe Elisande in Revendreth, Kael’thas take on void elves / blood elves situation (and overall the things that were happening), more orcs in Maldraxxus, not just a bit of Draka and Mograine.
Sure, why not. I am just not sure if I track at the moment if your idea is that I should be glad that the devs treat the story like who knows what with the direction they are taking with these “reveals”. Or if this is the focus that was needed to address the problem. Or that you feel robbed because the elves are getting the story progression that is incapable of addressing the problems created earlier.
Well, this part of the story with elf souls, etc., makes little to no sense to be “every player experience”. Story of the tree™ in BfA IMO should be a central piece of stories though. And instead we have current an attempt to borrow this story. Which is not good. And the effort could’ve been better spent on other things, be it Bwon, lunalai, or other related things for the horde audience.
No player = no soulkeeper → not even these few souls would be saved.
As I said before, the things that are given are not resolving the problem. So it’s not about “more now”. Now, and that was mentioned, both factions should have different “narrators” to work for the interests of their factions IMO. It’s now about “this and then some” what I meantioned more than once. It’s about “this story might not be in the game, and that would be free resources better used somewhere else”.
It’s not what what would be needed to deal with the thing. Giving, say, to me, something I do not need will not adress the question of what I need.
It sounds like I should be happy for the devs instead of doing things that would evolve the story in the directions which caused a problem just bending the story to drag it to where is convenient.
I would gladly donate this time, if I could, to story that would talk about how good the orc ancestor spirits are, or tauren, or some ancient troll stories to discover.
The problem as I see it is that in your opinion I somehow should be happy regardless of what the devs do as long as it’s involving the “night elf” tag.
I am not. I see no point to accept that. I am not going to scream at anyone, insult, harass or whatever, but not going to pretend that this is what is capable to address the problem created.
What are other races than forsaken that have interim leaders to the detriment of the narrative? I mean the horror of Calia being their leader is avoided, at least for now, so that is a good thing in the eyes of many players.
State of that stuff would require going back to Azeroth. I mean, I would not mind providing them a permanent home in the Shadowlands to some, but the devs do not allow, and that is a problem.
if the story / narrative does not have conclusion, that does not do much good. There were no forsaken / blood elves in the battle with Arthas. There were no orcs when we faced Kil’jaeden. And list goes on and on of the devs not caring about concluding / evolving the story, and just doing what would be narratively convenient. That is really bad. That is what happens now with elves too. (and will happen with Yrel, I would not be surprised)
Same problem. No consistency. Doing whatever they pick to drag the story instead of what would make sense. Not following character motivation. Relying on cheap plot twists creating a mess of a story that is not even concluded but just dropped abruptly.
Yes all of those things are problems. All of those things are problems that are happening right now with the narrative that you seemingly suggest that I should be happy with. I guess horde player were happy with BfA events because hey, the devs gave you a council, so that solves all the problems created, right?
gl hf
So Tyrande will be herself, from now on then (nerfed to pre night warrior power levels) back to being a high priestess?. Ain’t that a good thing, since she will no longer be dying?. Although this is not that surprising since she’s an allied leader.
Blizzard gave her Powers, and she started to dying. While Horde characters like Sylvanas can get much more powers, without dying.
So, since Tyande did not achieved anything with those powers, there was no reason to kill her from the story perspective, and we just took those powers away, by rescuing her.
That feels quite fair.
I just wonder where are those Undead Night Elves from BfA. Blizzards told in one interview that those forsaken elves will play a big role. But for now it seams that Tyrande and Night Elves souls will be used as fuel, to restore Ardenweild, and Night Elves story arc will be over on that.
Compared with the amount of attention other races are having? Yeah, it certainly is undivided.
Enlighten me, what other playable race comes even close to the sort of exposure Night elf have through the covenant campaign?
…Night elf issues are being highlighted excessively to the point they are swallowing what should’ve been neutral content.
They are effectively hijacking an entire covenant story, in order to showcase their own plot.
Still forced into Torghast to save only Night elf souls.
Even if the player acts as the basket, we are tasked to gather only NE apples.
So, the NE problem no longer is about the souls of their people being doomed to hell, or how Tyrande is being consumed by dark energies?
Using neutral content to fix both of the above no longer matters?
What other problem is there?
No.
You should acknowledge the fact that Night elves are having copious amount of spotlight time.
And not be disingenuous as to not admit that writers are spending such time trying to fix the biggest narrative issue Night elves had: the fate of those that died in Teldrassil and the future of their leader.
And nothing indicates that they won’t have any sort of future role to play regarding Sylvanas in particular.
If none of the above counts, then I wish Blizzard stopped pandering to this never ending list of demands.
Because at this point, having the above, even if it comes in detriment of other races that aren’t even getting a fraction of such care, and keep on whinging, becomes jarring to witness.
You honestly are trying to argue that a placeholder list of B-liner characters with close to zero relevance in the narrative, or spotlight in any of the relevant plots, is the equivalent of having the endgame content specifically tailored around countering and addressing several key issues of a particular race alone?..
Please, do expand on what sort of story is this council having? Is it playing any role in the playable content? Are those characters maybe addressing issues such as the lack of proper homes for Forsaken?
Maybe some story about the fact that orcs are once again, leaderless?
Anything?