A Bit Heavy-handed On Enhancement Shaman Nerfs Don't You Think? (PTR Feedback)

In Development Season of Discovery Phase 4 PTR
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Hey there, i play enhancement - specifically tank - in pve, and obviously i play dps in pvp as there is little need for tanks in that game mode.
I Have both my specs dedicated to enhancement builds, one for tanking and one for dps.

Based on some of the recent PTR notes on Enhancement Shaman and some PTR testing of my own, i want to point out that you are taking away:

  • 35% Intellect to Attack Power conversion from Mental Dexterity.
  • 10% AP to SP conversion from Mental Dexterity.
  • Flat out removed +healing on Mental Dexterity.
  • Our ability to use Maelstrom procs for Chain Healing and Healing Wave, Relegating us to basically wasting this very important proc on a Lesser Healing Wave which will now no longer even benefit from Mental Dexterity bonuses.

And in return you are giving us:

  • Spirit Wolves…aaaand that’s it… that’s all enhancement is getting in return…

Kind of an unfair tradeoff, don’t you think? :crazy_face:

You completely gutted our ability to heal on top of nerfing our damage - which WILL affect tank shamans negatively as well as DPS shamans because Elemental Shamans are running around instagibbing players?

It Was already pretty tough to tank as it is, and the only saving grace here is that Shamanistic Rage is becoming baseline, which isn’t an Enhancement-specific buff, but an overall buff that Resto and Ele will enjoy as well.

Another thing i take issue with:

  • Greater Ghost Wolf: “Ghost Wolf is now usable indoors and reduces all damage taken by 10% while active.”

Is This a joke?
I Hate to come off as disrespectful, but i mean… Damn… Really? :roll_eyes:

Could you at least allow us to instant cast ghost wolf if we’re running this rune, or at the very least make it reduce the casting time on ghost wolf by 1 second so we can get it instant cast if we choose to talent it?
Is This really too much to ask for? :pray:

Also, I Am very disappointed that you once again shafted us in the 2-handed department.
You literally turned Hand of Ragnaros strictly into a Feral Druid weapon and defacto made it so Enhancement Shamans won’t give it a second glance because Dual Wielding is just that much better - to the point where running 2H is considered griefing (yes its actually that bad)…

I Mean, at least give 2-handed a new melee rune or something, i mean come on, what’s wrong with the “Sundering” ability people have suggested?
(attacks everything in a cone in front of the shaman with a heavy attack that deals weapon damage + % of attack power and stuns all targets hit for 2 seconds on a 15-20 second cooldown (Glove Rune) ?)

I’ll Do you one better; simply add a whirlwind ability for 2handed shamans so they can stack maelstroms in both pve and pvp without relying solely on WF procs in order to do so… 10 second cooldown, flat weapon damage (possibly as random fire/frost/nature damage to add some class flavor), hits 4 targets. requires 2 handed weapon. Glove rune. (obviously unable to proc windfury attacks on the targets hit as that would be beyond busted, but perhaps a lesser effect, like the corresponding element we apply from shocks i.e earth shocks interrupt, frost shocks snare and flame shocks DoT? depending on the random element the ability “procs”)

:skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: Please reconsider some of these changes. :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull:
It is beyond overkill to punish Enhancement (tanks specifically) this hard, when the real culprit to the shaman hatred in the current meta is Elemental Shaman, and curiously you decided to BUFF Elemental Shamans as well… i don’t get it tbh.

If Your goal is to force every shaman into playing Elemental, i’d say these are the exact changes you need to make.
HOWEVER; if that is not the case, you basically can’t allow these changes to go through in their current format.

My Suggestion is to walk back the decision to take +healing power off Mental Dexterity and to also walk back the decision to take Healing Wave and Chain Heal off Maelstrom procs… and you might wanna touch on those conversion rate nerfs again, because from what i can tell, my phase 3 lvl 50 shaman will be doing more damage than my phase 4 potentially bis geared lvl 60 shaman. :sob:

From what i can tell, Spirit Wolves are also performing very underwhelmingly, so i highly advise buffing this ability and lowering its cooldown to 1 minute if you hope to see anyone use it over Storm, Earth And Fire… maybe add some scaling to it so the wolves grow in power alongside their host shaman as he gains more gear. :muscle::wolf:

We are about to enter the most shaman-unfriendly part of the game - the part of the game that has a bunch of nature/fire immune mobs and bosses being the majority of the enemies we will face off against in MC, and unless some drastic changes to Tank Shamans are made, they simply will not be able to perform as intended in phase 4, outside of dungeon content…

Honestly, it was a miracle that we could make it work as it is in phase 3 with all these nature resistant/immune green dragons.

Hope my feedback is taken into consideration here and i thank you for taking your time to read it. :kissing_heart:

MAJOR EDIT:

So i just had a look at the upcoming tier set bonuses, and i am not happy.
Elemental set bonuses are downright BUSTED OP while both tank and enhancement dps Tier sets are the definition of underwhelming and this absolutely has to change, or i am done tanking (and playing enhancement as a whole).

All of the 2 set bonuses are the same for all the specs, except the tank set.

2 set (Ele, Enhance DPS, Resto):
The radius of your totems that affect friendly targets is increased to 40 yd.

Note: This set bonus is underwhelming and it makes the talent to increase totem radius in the resto tree 100% redundant. Make a different 2 set bonus.

Elemental Bonuses:
4 set: Your Lightning Bolt critical strikes have a 35% chance to reset the cooldown on Lava Burst and Chain Lightning and make the next Lava Burst, Chain Heal, or Chain Lightning within 10 sec instant. (Proc chance: 35%)
6 set: Lava Burst now also refreshes the duration of Flame Shock on your target back to 12 sec.

Note: Do i even have to say it?
This is giga-absolutely-out of this world-busted-OP. this is literally going to take Ele Shaman from A tier to S++ tier.
You’ll never have to hardcast again EVERYTHING except lightning bolt becomes instant cast now, and you outright won’t have to use flame shock more than once during boss fights. GIGA BUSTED.
not to mention that we already got a rune that removes the cooldown on Chain Lightning which is pretty much mandatory to run for Ele, so the part of the set bonus that removes the cooldown on Chain Lightning is basically redundant, and just serves to open up Spirit Wolves for Ele, which is a luxury they hardly need to be able to have access to.

Restoration Bonuses:
4 set: After casting your Healing Wave, Lesser Healing Wave, or Riptide spell, gives you a 25% chance to gain Mana equal to 35% of the base cost of the spell. (Proc chance: 25%, 1s cooldown)
6 set: Your Healing Wave will now jump to additional nearby targets. Each jump reduces the effectiveness of the heal by 80%, and the spell will jump to up to 2 additional targets.

Note: Okay, so we’re giving shaman healers some mana refunds, which is nice, but the 6 set bonus means chain healing is now 100% obsolete. seems very poorly thought through.

Enhancement Bonuses:
4 set: Increases your critical strike chance with spells and attacks by 2%.
6 set: Your Flurry talent grants an additional 10% increase to your attack speed.

Note: This is the definition of underwhelming, if you look up the dictionary definition of the word, there will be a picture of these set bonuses… the 4 set bonus is boring and the 6 set is mid. how about putting in some bonuses to Windfury or Spirit wolves here instead?

Enhancement Tank Bonuses:
2 set: Increases your attack speed by 30% for your next 3 swings after you parry, dodge, or block.
4 set: Your parries and dodges also activate your Shield Mastery rune ability.
6 set: Your Stoneskin Totem also reduces Physical damage taken by 5% and your Windwall Totem also reduces Magical damage taken by 5%.

Note: First off, the 6 set bonus is a joke. FLAT OUT. Change it. nobody uses stoneskin or windwall totem and 5% physical/magic damage reduction is not worth running those totems for considering you are giving up Windfury, Agility, Strength and even Tremor Totems to do so.
Secondly, the 2 set and 4 set bonuses are nice, particularly the 2 set bonus assuming it stacks with Flurry, but the 4 set bonus is just a bandaid fix for the inefficiency of Shield Mastery as a whole, and it forces us to spec into Avoidance.

Now, having read all these bonuses its not even a question as to who the winner is.
Elemental is downright mega busted, and this will all but guarantee this is the only spec any shaman wants to play hence forth.

The fact you split Enhancement and Enhancement Tank into 2 different sets is also maddening in the extreme.
Enhancement Shamans should be able to use 1 set for both variations of the spec.
This way, you are forcing me to gather 2 sets for the same god damn spec like COME ON…

You’ve absolutely shafted both Enhancement specs by comparison to both Ele and Resto, and i am frankly insanely mad about that.

Do it over or i am done playing Enhancement, as are many others. :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

UPDATE:

  • While using the Shield Mastery rune, the attack power bonus granted from defense skill is now triggered by the use of Flame Shock

NOTE:
Nice, tank shaman was in desperate need of a buff considering the wreckingball style nerfs you are dishing out (assuming the previous patch notes are still in the plans).

  • The attack speed bonus granted by Two-Handed Weapon specialization rune after landing a melee attack on an enemy with a two-handed weapon equipped has been increased to 50%.

NOTE:
Ay ay ay… the frustration is real at this point.
guys, you could increase the attack speed to 100% and it still wouldn’t be able to compete with dual wielding.

Can you please eat your pride and give 2H Enhancement a unique melee ability already?
How come that you take the wrecking ball approach to nerfing Enhancement, but when it comes to 2H you are inching your way towards the goal at a literal snail pace?!

CAN WE HAVE A WHIRLWIND ATTACK ALREADY?
JUST GIVE US WARRIOR’S WHIRLWIND FOR 2H (NO 1H USAGE) AND CALL IT A DAY, DONE.

  • Maelstrom Weapon now has a significantly higher chance to proc with two-handed weapons equipped.

NOTE:
Some specificity would be awesome… what does “significantly” mean?
20%?
50%?
100%?
come on man…

  • Molten Blast can now hit up to 10 targets.

NOTE:
LOL cool XD
that will go extremely well with my overcharged, fire nova and flame shock /w burn rune lmao.

  • The maximum rank of all weapon imbues now has a 1 hour duration.

HALLELUJA, FINALLY, ONLY TOOK LIKE 6 MONTHS!
PRAISE THE LORD’AH

still mad about the mental dex scaling and maelstrom healing nerfs though, please walk it back a bit.

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Oh no shaman will no longer be rank 1 dps and rank 1 raid utility provider both at once! Pure madness!

4 Likes
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I think giving 2H shamans the ability to use 2 imbues by making WF permanent for them as long as a 2h weapon is equipped and then perhaps having Frostbrand be their 2nd default imbue to use on a Frozen Smash 2H attack would be thematic since Frostbrand has been forever abandoned by the dev team.

Also fix the single target tanking of shamans. It’s awful due to mana starving. It’ll be a bit better with the default Shamanistic Rage but why gate extra chances to proc Shield Mastery (the only “defensive”) behind a tier set bonus? It should be baseline or part of a rune.

Why are there so many talents not interacting with related runes? The Fire Nova rune does not get benefit from the Fire Nova talent or iirc the Fire Totems +15% damage talent. Guardian Totems doesn’t affect Decoy Totem and so on.

I’d like to ask the devs to do a second pass at the talents to ensure that they affect the related runes where applicable.

Additionally, fix Molten Blast. The latest changes made it unusable. Buff its scaling, fix its thread generation and have it deal damage based on the number of targets hit: maximum against 1 target and spread evenly when hitting 2, 3 and 4 of them so that the rune can be used in several scenarios. Otherwise, tank shamans will continue to hard cast Lava Bursts while the bosses are wailing at them. Alternatively, create a “Molten Bash” ability for tank shamans to use.

The mana issues might be fixed in the future but the feel of the spec is still horrible: it’s just rotating shocks, which is nice, but has nothing else to it besides hardcasting LvB.

Also, change RB so that it works like the TBC version. Having such low pity extra melee AP is too weird.

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you know why nobody cares about your woes in any of your million “whaah warlock weak” threads?
because this is how you behave when other classes bring up their own grievances.
btw warlock is the undisputed best caster dps in pve, so your woes aren’t even justified.

EDIT: whoops, posted on wrong character… oh well…

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Check logs bro… you are telling 100% lies here.
Elemental shaman is far beyond.
And also i don’t care about destro spec.
Affliction is weaker than tank warlock and that is also backed up by logs. Show me evidence that i am the one lying here and not you.

I am not expecting that somebody cares besides game developers.
I am done with that sheet that everyone is complaining about minor nerfs and “bad” changes as long as there are specs that were never able to compete and got completely ignored for the last 6 months

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I mean I don’t really think your class was underperforming was it? Maybe good balance is required, but in one thing we have the same opinion. Elemental shaman has been buffed too much it’s unhealthy, for many reasons.

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im just going based off what i see in my own raids. our warlock is absolutely pumping. top dps every fight. 1000+ dps on single target. maybe you and many others just aren’t playing it right.

if you could stop cluttering my thread about non-shaman issues that would be sweet though.

this is a shaman feedback thread and your input here is not welcome unless it concerns the topic.

tank shaman was underperforming, as in; it was barely functioning. shamans in sweat guilds can barely hold aggro against high parsers because their aggro output is enormous.

dps enhancement was doing fine, but that is about to change after this upcoming patch unless some of those scaling nerfs are revisited, its way too many nerfs in one swing.
particularly in pvp enhancement is about to get demolished.

meanwhile elemental which was the offending spec pvp-wise is about to go from demigod status to actual god status.

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You were the one who started the warlock topic here.
My first response was shaman related. I was pointing out that shaman deserves these minor nerfs. I admit it was in a provocating way but it was justified.

Yes of course i am not playing it right, because playing it right is also known as “playing fire destro spec”
And i am a sworn DotLock.

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you came into my feedback thread and started throwing shade about shaman because you’re salty about warlock being bad. stop acting oblivious.

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Yes that was also in my mind while writing this first response, but i kept it “behind the scenes” while “acting”.

Truth is my alt char is a melee shaman and i am not mad at all about these nerfs because as i already said, it is justified and deserved.

A spec can’t be top dps in raid, and best raid buffbot at the same time + being unkillable in pvp because maelstrom self heals every 5-10 sec.

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i disagree with your take entirely.
not a discussion i am interested in pursuing, especially not the part about maelstrom making shaman “unkillable”… you using that term to describe the spell says all i need to know about your knowledge about shaman as a whole.

shaman will still be top dps and utility after these enhancement nerfs, but it will simply be elemental instead of enhancement.

and in regards to pvp; things are about to become a whole lot worse for the alliance since everyone who is currently enhancement is going to swap to elemental.

the fact of the matter is that enhancement is getting gutted, particularly in pvp, while elemental is getting godlike buffs across the board for both pvp and pve.

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How exactly is it getting “gutted”

You can still play tidal waves and riptide with earth shield and use riptide into a good crit chance LHW on yourself?

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unironically give us dual wield WoE back , if we can’t heal ourselves at least make it so we don’t die in a global .

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you suggested this in another thread; tidal waves is a restoration rune and its on the helm slot… in order to run this rune we’d have to give up mental dexterity which is not an option.
its also omegacope to suggest our healing is still viable when they are asking us to use our 5x maelstrom stack on a lesser heal.

bro that’s a joke.
especially now that they are taking +healing power off the mental dexterity rune, which means both our riptide and lesser healing wave will also heal for about 200 sp less than before…

if they want to take the big healing wave off maelstrom weapon, they need to buff lesser healing wave and riptide to compensate, for enhancement specifically.

if instant lesser healing wave only consumed 2 stacks of maelstrom per heal it would be acceptable, but that would present its own problems as well since it would require less stacking to instaheal (albeit for much less)… no they really should just revert this awful change.

the damage scaling nerfs and taking +healing power off mental dexterity rune is enough, they don’t need to outright gut healing on maelstrom on top of that.

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Dont u wonder why enh shamans got such nerfs?
Are u kidding?
They where Top 2 DPS and top 1 Raid utility at the same time
And dont worry pal Ele Shaman now can oneshot everyone on PvP reaching a burst dmg of 3k dps

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what i’m wondering about is why blizzard is so heavy handed with the nerfs.
nerfing the ability to heal with maelstrom ON TOP of the scaling nerfs to Mental Dexterity (and removing +healing on it outright) is beyond overkill.

its like they decided to nerf enhancement’s damage output and then tag on the maelstrom nerf just for good measure, as to curb having to make further adjustments in case the scaling nerf wasn’t enough.

ele being an overpowered demigod capable of reaching high dps during a cheese test done by an alliance player aiming to get it nerfed, is hardly any comfort when i play enhancement… and enhancement TANK specifically, not dps (only offspec/pvp)… these nerfs will hit tank enhancement harder than they will hit dps enhancement…

and lets not forget that if they are aiming to nerf the offending spec, which is ELEMENTAL, then this is clearly not the way to go about it.

they should have done the damage scaling nerfs + removed +healing from mental dexterity and stopped there but they took it too far, yet again.

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this , perdiod full stop . it’s fricking braindeadge elemental gets to use it

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Well well this situation sounds familiar to me… like for warlock the last 6 months.

“but it will simply be fire destro instead of affliction.”
Only the top dps part is missing for p1 and p3, that was only true for gnomeregan.

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UPDATE:

While using the Shield Mastery rune, the attack power bonus granted from defense skill is now triggered by the use of Flame Shock

NOTE:
Nice, tank shaman was in desperate need of a buff considering the wreckingball style nerfs you are dishing out (assuming the previous patch notes are still in the plans).

The attack speed bonus granted by Two-Handed Weapon specialization rune after landing a melee attack on an enemy with a two-handed weapon equipped has been increased to 50%.

NOTE:
Ay ay ay… the frustration is real at this point.
guys, you could increase the attack speed to 100% and it still wouldn’t be able to compete with dual wielding.

Can you please eat your pride and give 2H Enhancement a unique melee ability already?
How come that you take the wrecking ball approach to nerfing Enhancement, but when it comes to 2H you are inching your way towards the goal at a literal snail pace?!

CAN WE HAVE A WHIRLWIND ATTACK ALREADY?
JUST GIVE US WARRIOR’S WHIRLWIND AND CALL IT A DAY, DONE.

Maelstrom Weapon now has a significantly higher chance to proc with two-handed weapons equipped.

NOTE:
Some specificity would be awesome… what does “significantly” mean?
20%?
50%?
100%?
come on man…

Molten Blast can now hit up to 10 targets.

NOTE:
LOL cool XD
that will go extremely well with my overcharged, fire nova and flame shock /w burn rune lmao.

The maximum rank of all weapon imbues now has a 1 hour duration.

HALLELUJA, FINALLY, ONLY TOOK LIKE 6 MONTHS!
PRAISE THE LORD’AH

(adding this to OP btw, but i wanted to bump my thread anyway)

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bump for visibility.