Rogues arent more bloated then other classes. And then maybe Rogue simply isnt for you. It is however a thing for a lot of other people. You don’t have to make every class play or be designed the same. And a lot of people do think Rogues are much harder than all other classes, and that isnt the case.
This applies to every class. Including Ret Paladins. You can always min max if you want or not and go by gut feeling. This is also an universal problem btw. You mentioned Elden Ring in a conversation with that one monk in another thread for instance and hands down you have people min max the ever living poop out of that game while its evidently not needed at all. Gooodness gracious, you can kill Radahn with the “Spartan farmer” setup while eating a sandwhich and brewing coffee.
You really don’t have to do the min max stuff. Thats why for example the dry shiv is not listed as part of the rotation but all the way down. You can entirely ignore it and be fine. You may be even better off not thinking about it at all. I forget about it sometimes as well (although the rogue is an alt now) and just go “meh. I’ll survive.”.
Its also the reason why the Pala Discord isnt putting that stuff into the WoWhead guide. For the Rogue discord it is occasionally a small debate (of like 5minutes) because some don’t see the point of it being there and others die hard defending it and then whispyr and co are like “whatever. I’ll put it in the fine print”.
I think the 1 button rotation is a bait. It will help people with disabilities but it will hinder people that want to improve. Its a help for some and a curse for others. I may use it for world content like delves because meh.
Some talents MAY be removed. Or they need to be changed. Lets take sacrifice for instance. I will NOT cast this in a pug because I don’t trust anybody, including my guildies, that this will not result in me falling over even with it getting removed at 30%. Unless I have bubble and its part of the raid progression setup or something.
Micro CC I think is fine. Like AoE Blind on both Ret and Rogue is a god gift and I embraced it when Rogues got that change to blind.
I think the biggest issue comes from having a tree for the class and then a spec tree. You can easily make a change in the spec tree but for the class tree you have to consider the other 2-3 specs as well.
As for the pruning. Every class/spec needs to discuss that for themselves. If you touch my feint or SoV however… (you can remove the damage aspect from SoV for all I care but I want the shield. The DPS is whatever in PvE. Not going to comment on PvP stuff).
We already have the rotation logic blizzard are using (It’s in spell data) and people are testing it on ptr, most of them are pretty spot on. Ret is the only spec that can completely rely on it’s 1 button rotation because it won’t use any offensive ability with a 60s or longer cooldown, but it absolutely works completely fine for them. I managed to get priest to work with 3 buttons, a macro for the opener, a macro for cooldowns, and the 1 button macro for everything else.
Nobody is saying you will be able to press only 1 button and do high end content (Ret can rotationally but you still want utility / defensives), but you’ll need to press less buttons, and think a lot less about which ones you’re pressing.
The value is 30%-40% increase, since most classes have their gcds close to 1 seconds, or even lower during bl (it increases it by 0.3s), or even not working with spell queuing.
This is also a big drawback, since most specs (ranged mainly) use instant cast abilities in conjunction with movement in order to minimize lost time. The one button will actually completely fail at that, which will further increase the gap between dps.
To be frank, I think that any player that could benefit from this, would already be better served by using GSE with rotations from wow lazy macros. They might not be perfect, but the lack of any penalty would make them a better choice than one button at the mythic level.
We also have to consider that we make the assumption that the one-button ability will always be choosing the optimal action. Are we sure this will be the case? What do simulations show if it is accurate 80% of the time?
People are blowing this entire feature WAY out of proportion. It’s not going to affect anyone in the slightest and the drama about this thing has been absolutely pathetic to witness.
It’s meant as a crutch for disabled, new and/or players that simply want to level and not bother too much with learning a new spec/class THATS IT.
The problem is that, until you get to the higher levels you will be doing the lower-mid levels first. So those players will be in our groups.
The rotation helper is fine. The one button is overkill. Idk why you would want to ise it anywhere at at all, because it kinda defeats the pirpose of the game but sure to each their own. Just disable it on instanced content.
It defeats YOUR purpose of the game, the button is not for you.
And who says the people using it are going to be doing keys at all? MAYBE some low level entry keys but the grand uber ultra mega majority of the target audience for this feature will not.
You’re all just assuming things and then get upset about it.
Upset no, cautious yes. And people will be trying to get into higher content with this “feature”, because the WoW player base is entitled and doesn’t understand their limits. Mark my words, you will see a lot of “Got kicked from X, because toxic elitists discriminate against 1 button players”.
The solution I suggested is simple and does not go against what you are claiming people will use the 1 button. Dissable it in instaces and problem solved.
For some specs it will be super effective because the spec really does just mindlessly tap around its state machine, while other classes, such as mine, will have this button awkwardly change between not working when moving and working while moving all that sort of stuff.
Then there’s the CD disparity.
I legitimately think some classes are going to be doing ~70% of normal DPS and some of them are going to do ~20% once we get into real fights.
It’s all going to be very silly.
Perfectly stated. This doesn’t solve anything. The overcomplicated proc-o-rama remains and people are still going to quit over it once they get bored of spamming the same button for months on end.
I see that the meaning of the words keep eluding you. I’ll let you read it once again, just in case you will actually understand them without additional help.
The problem is that it solves very little, or at least approaches issues in a wrong way.
For people with handicaps, disabilities, or just really casual players who just want to laugh around, this would be great and for them it doesn’t even need to be on a competitive level. As long as it helps them to play, and that it guaranteed will be the case.
Buuuuut, we also know how this will go. Many players will use this on ‘fresh’ alts, or new mains, or what not, reach a level where the auto rotation no longer suffices, and suddenly they’re standing till their waist deep in quicksand. You can count on it, this will happen.
So what then?
They need to improve to continue, they tasted what it is to get what they can till now, but they have at this point ZERO idea how to play their spec.
This feature, for those, will be the opposite of helpful. It’ll be disastrous to a point where I expect them to abandon their chars when they reach such walls.
What they actually needed to do was simplify rotations, shift the focus from stacking a dozen of modifiers to just doing higher normal damage from executing your rotations (without cooldowns), and only boost that normal rotation damage in some way or the other by a couple cooldowns.
Get rid of 80% of the procs
Reduce cooldown stacking
Up the base damage significantly
Make the interactions between abilities more clear (no, we don’t read the tooltips)
…
Otherwise they’re just applying a bandaid on a bullet wound. Sure, it may help a little, but not for long.
It was originally 0.2 seconds, and in ptr it became 0.3 seconds. I am unaware if it was changed again.
Sorry what?
You understand that the one button rotation is not hidden but you actually SEE the spells being cast right?
How is that having zero idea? Just as a mater of visual learning they will mostly have their base rotation down purely due to visual learning. They will have a basic idea of what spells go after what spells, and what are their cooldowns (since they were not being cast).
If starting a new spec would be at the starting line, they would already be at the 50 meter line.
I think you missed one of their design goals.
What they said is that they are generally happy with the design space, but want to make it easier for people to get into the game. They do not want to lose the depth the spec have.
does the increased gcd even matter for casters that have spellcast longer then gcd ? this only seems to effect melee by sounds of it, i am probably just overthinking it and being stupid.
I have nothing against one button rotation, because you probably still being better dps without it.
Without a thought process behind pressing each individual button, one won’t learn that much? How does one gain muscle memory from pressing one button for their rotation? How does one start to experiment with a different sequence when using one button?
Yes, you start at the 50 meter line. And then you have to figure out how to actually drive that F1-car they placed you in. You know where everything is and what everything does, it doesn’t make you know how to use it all…
As I said, if they just didn’t make the rotations so utterly dependent on dozen procs, buffs, triggers, … it all wouldn’t be so hard to get into.
Yeah, right, having 24 multipliers doesn’t create depth. It creates clutter, bloat, and a hard time balancing everything.