One button rotation will not be used by a mythic raider (Meaning a guy that does not just do the first 2-3 bosses on mythic) also it will not be used by someone that is above 3.1 - 3.2k rio. So if you are a high-end player it will not affect you at all. If we all agree to this then i don’t understand where is the problem. It’s going to be a great addition to the game for the low-end players and the casual ones!
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That depends on how accurate it is, a 20% increase in gcd is noticeable but it’s also offset by no longer having to think about your rotational gameplay and being able to focus entirely on mechanics / positioning. Also while it doesn’t use offensive cooldowns, there are some specs this doesn’t matter for (Notably Ret paladin).
Plus even if you don’t solely use the one button rotation, it’ll likely work pretty effectively in conjunction with 1-2 other macros, or just as something to hit mindlessly when learning or trying to focus on a new part of an encounter or tricky overlap. Even at a mythic level.
I think there’s reason to be concerned this will have a function at nearly all levels of play as is. You won’t be able to do nothing but press it (Barring Ret paladin) and do competitive DPS, but it’ll reduce cognitive load and gameplay difficulty significantly when incorporated into what people already do.
I’m planning to at least have some use for it as a mythic raider.
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We are now giving away scooters for the 200m men’s dash. They will never be able to beat the top 1% of the participants, but will make sure that the rest 99% of contender’s efforts are effectively nullified.
Nothing wrong with that I guess. It’s not like sports are about effort and discipline…
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I suppose that’s how it works. Just like how taking tons of drugs is fine and doesn’t impact anyone who chooses not to take them. In any way at all.
In on bait thread.
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The people who think this is a problem have too much time on their hands IMHO
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All the fuss is due to two factors:
(A) There are much better alternatives than a 1 button rotation gimmic.
(B) Imagine you are a 3k rio player, trying to push to 3.1k rio. SOME players will use it in your PuG keys, and you will have to carry them. How to avoid that, or atleast, identify those that use it and give you the option of inviting them or not.
That is the whole fuss.
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Ret is interesting example on which we’ll be able to see how competent / reactive this system will be. Is it going to react to Divine Favor (free holy power spender) and Art of War (cd free Blade of Justice)? Will it adjust the next ability based on that?
For example you proc Divine Favor but you have 2-3 sec cd left on your Judgement. Will it tell you to blast DF right away or wait untill Judgement is ready to get bonus dmg from Greater Judgement debuff?
Or how will it react to some bizzare talent choices, like someone not having Wake of Ashes etc. Will only work if you have standard recomended talents picked?
How flexible is it going to be?
Because there are a lot of people between 3.2k rio and being someone that doesn’t care to even play a videogame
Also, think about what that will do to people that are learning the game? This will lead to them losing to everyone using a 1 button rotation until they are about 20% worse than fully optimal rotation. So if you are doing less damage than 80% of optimal rotation, you might be pressured to use this 1 button rotation, as this is a multiplayer online game
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I swear people haven’t looked at the testing. The 1 button rotation isnt going to be 80% optimal rotation, its currently doing like 30-40%. Its like people hear 1 button rotation and immediately think “OMG NEW MDI STRAT!” When in reality its garbage and most people won’t even use it as they’re used to playing their way. this feature is just to bridge a gap on the hopes of bringing in more casual players or those with disabilities which might work short term but after like 2 weeks those people will just quit when they realise the game is hyper optimised towards high end players. Players are already being removed from groups because their dps is low or they miss mechanics, do people automatically assume that using 1 button also removes the ability to kick those players? This changes litterally nothing.
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I wish Alleria did not choose the small mug and instead went with the one her mother gave her
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You still face the issue of one more layer causing DH to potentially drop and generally slower output. The 1 button is roughly 500-600k dps behind me right now on a target dummy. ± ptr shennanigans. I havent tested whether its doing brain gymnastics like when you run out because of a mechanic and it thinks “hey, DH is off CD and you don’t have it running. Better press it!” or Wake or ES (also wouldnt be surprised if they scrap wake, DH and ES from it since Ion made it clear he doesnt want it to be the to go choice)
Greater judgement gets eaten away by DH anyway. Rets stopped caring about it a while ago as its not worth it. Also divine favor? Did you mean Hammer of Light? If you mean HoL that one doesnt consume a greater judgement stack. You can delay it in like 2 cases but even that is whatever.
Or were you on about Divine Purpose? Just fire away.
Ret has been popular since ages. Same as Hunters (even if BM isnt the meta spec). Its just the fantasy for some (For paladins you also have a class that covers every role so people can dip in and out of roles if they want to). This isnt sudden. People also have this weird, and wrong, conception that rogue is rocket science. And people gravitate towards stuff that deals damage even if just on paper. Case in point Shadowlands season 1 where everybody and their gran were a fire mage with 99.99% of them dealing negative damage because they didnt know how you need to play said spec in keys or the tank didnt know how to cater to them.
Ret has more than assa. Same amount if we include min max shennanigans like Shiv during Darkest Night and when you have the buff after your CD expires. Ret has vastly more utility spells for themselves and their party. Ret is also significantly more fast paced in comparison to Assa given the latter has intended rather “long” downtime.
People think they should deal the same amount of dmg on an alt/new main than on their main/old alt or deal even more dps on the new char despite having no experience and thats not how it works in most cases.
Nobody says this, but fact is that the way ret paladin is designed is just way more popular than the way rogue is designed. Outlaw rogue for example is purely dedicated to MDI. The way it plays has absolutely no appeal to average players, despite it being thematically popular (Pirate)
Which comes down to taste. Rogue, assa in particular, is slow paces outside of Outlaw. Ret is smash smash smash (and even here people are bad at juggling HP. Already been the case last tier). People prefer to press buttons over having forced downtime and Ret has practically zero downtime in both ST and AoE.
Strangely enough most Rogues I talk to prefer Outlaw over Assa or Sub. If their rogue is an alt in most cases said rogue is Outlaw as well. As for MDI, well, Outlaw is behind Assa and its still being played. A lot of people love the spec even if you, and me, dont like it at all and rather walk over nails than play it.
Absolutely, and in the taste competition Retribution Paladin completely outshines Rogue popularity-wise by a very big margin
So should Blizzard make classes like Rogue, that has to pay attention to 6 Buffs, 2 ressource systems, and many micro-DMG Cds with a 15-20 step wowhead rotation priority you need to study before playing, or should Blizzard make classes like Ret Paladin, where you can just pick it up and do okay?
Yes. Because people don’t like forced downtime. Ret also has the upside that you are effectively a 1 button class in M+ the way the spec currently works (not like Assa requires much more brainpower). And you always press stuff (your survival is also through the roof. Its pretty darn hard to die as a Paladin unless you were afk).
And you can also go tank if you’re a paladin if your guildies are pestering you once again because they cba with pug tanks. Or heal if you have maso tendencies I suppose.
Rogue has also ALWAYS been very low on the popularity scale and Paladins have been high.
Define “okay”. Most rets are horrible when it comes to playing the spec. In keys you have the aforementioned saving grace that its pretty much a 1 button spec.
And again: Rogues arent rocket science. You have an equal or bigger priority list as Ret in comparison to Assa for ST.
You have a buff that you get after 3 finishers that you then finish at max CP.
Garrote is 18 seconds, rupture 32.
You combine DM and Vanish which is comparable to you firing away ES and Wake. Kingsbane is just a CD you press and line up with your other big CD (ES/Wake). Shiv during the last 8 seconds of KB, which is also muscle memory and self explanatory.
Then you can dry shiv. If you even bother. Same as you can hold HoL if ES is about to come off CD.
You don’t pay attention to slice and dice at all. Even the envenom chain lost priority since this tier.
Also some people prefer Rogue over Paladin. Why does it have to be “one or the other”? You have your ret and they have the rogue. Not every class or spec has to play the same or be designed the same.
As for the wall of texts: The Rogue discord has always been notorious for typing everything out in utmost detail (and said people are writing the wowhead guides). The Mage discord I believe behaves the same. The Pala discord could do the same but Bolas and co cba because most don’t care and its min max in the 0.3% range.
Im levelling a ret paladin atm, and yes i feel pretty immortal.
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Ye. And not just that. As a Ret I can save someone in my team with LoH, a bubble or a CR. Not to mention being able to off heal and being unkillable outside of oneshots.
As a Rogue? Depending on the season I am maybe pseudo immortal as long as I get some sort of healing on me (the last Freehold season we had) but I sure as hell won’t be able to save anybody in the group because… rogue.
That alone makes the Ret more appealing to me in a key over my rogue regardless of me mindlessly hammering down the rotation on both.
Nothing in wow is rocket science, but there is a lot of friction, hoops to jump over, accessibility issues, and game design restrictions that get introduced, when Blizzard creates bloated aberration classes like Rogue. I think it’s also just not fun for many people to study wow classes before playing on third party websites. At some point the fun is being optimized out of the game.
I just think that Blizzard needs to remember, that they are making a videogame for players, and not just content for class discord analysist, MDI Pros, etc. 
A 1-Button-Rotation is not a solution for new players. It mostly caters to 2-extremes: People that are already playing and are not interested in wow’s gameplay at all and people that are very deep into M+, and wanna keep the classes being designed for this activity at high level.
What do you think of the compromise that WoW needs a General-Talent-Tree Pruning of micro-CC/Defensives/etc., and have only 1 specialization Tree per class designed in the spirit of Ret Paladin? If they went Multiplatform that 1 specialization would only be available on console for example too, while the rest is PC-only for the sweats. Is that a compromise that is sensible to you?
I know players for long enough that they will use it. 100% guaranteed…
And when they realize it does 30% dps they will coma back here and demand buffs. Like with so many things.
And, as usual, to hide that fact they will use the “but disabled people deserve more…” Joker card. Disrespecting everyone’s intelligence.
I mean… Its happened 50x already. Why would this time be different?
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And if they made the content very hard with the class feeling great and intuitive, I think that’s amazing. Elden Ring for example follows this design principle, where your class is easy to pilot, but the world is hard. I hope that World Tiers in Legion Remix is gonna show what I mean