A farewell to mage

I’d like to start by saying that I love the fact that since TWW open world is getting more and more love with delves, future prey system as well as experiments like heroic world tier in Legion Remix.

Sadly, the attention to open world doesn’t include balancing classes for open world content. Whenever a question pops up about best class/spec for delves, the answer is always “tanks” closely followed by “pet classes”. Similarly, in Legion Remix tanks became kings of heroic world tier:

Heroic World Tier awards more artifact knowledge due to empowered enemies. However, this comes at the cost of mobs with much higher health and damage. White swings alone will kill the majority of DPS specs, especially between 70 to 80 unless you’re pulling very slowly. However, as a Tank, you can pull whatever you want, in whatever quantities you want and even some of the biggest rares!

I was hoping this will get adressed in future expansions. Since more open world content was announced, I hoped more attention would be paid to balancing. Sadly, it seems it’s the other way around.

My main, frost mage, is losing a lot of his crowd control potential, that let it keep enemies at bay, as well as any kind of self sustain. I wrote about it in the mage section (link below) and I won’t reppeat myself here. I find the changes to be widely applauded by the M+ community, since our control abilities interfered with big pulls, and losing much of our self sustain isn’t that big of a problem in group content which is done with healers. As long as we have some big defensives for mechanics, all’s good for them. This is not the case for open world, where You have to constantly deal with a steady stream of damage, not single big abilities here and there.

With the doubling down on class disbalance in the open world I was already considering changing my main, but the straw that broke the camel’s back was Valeera Sanguinar, or rather her replacemant for Brann’s “Dwarven Medicine”.

See, Brann threw his potions at Your location, which means that if I started a fidht at a range (which I do as a ranged DPS to avoid damage), but Valeera’s replacement orbs appear around the mob she attacks, which mens that if i want healing, I have to get in the range of mobs. This design complelty invalidates my ability to keep mobs at a distance, since I need healing to heal infoming spell/ranged damage. See examples of how Valeera’s healing works here (if the timestamp doesn’t work, You can see it clearly at 7:20):

With this changes my squishy mage became even more squishy, and on top of limiting my control potential Blizzard came up with a design where I can’t even take advantage of what’s left of it, forcing me into melee.

I’ve had enough. I’d still play Midnight, because it’s shaping up to be good expansion - just not with my mage. I’m not looking for artificial challange. I don’t want to intentionally make my game experience worse by choosing a class that’s becoming less and less viable in open world. It’s not about me being unable to do content - I’m confident I would be able to, just as I am now. But if the game design forces me into melee, i’d rather play a proper melee class for it.

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Ty for your service fellow frost mage .you will be missed

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That will NEVER happen. EVER.

Forget about tanks. Lets just compare a Ret Paladin to an Arms Warrior. Both melee, both more or less with the same CC potential. But one can self-heal, the other-one cannot. That is a BIG difference.

And you can keep going with anything. Ranged vs. Melee. Cloth vs. Plate. Shield vs. No shield… ect…

As you can see… its simply not possible to balance out classes in WoW for Solo Content. You simply cannot. Unless, you make ALL classes identical. Everyone wears plate. Everyone can self heal. Everyone has the same CC potential… ect…

WoW was NEVER meant to be played Solo, and it never will. It’s just a coincidence that SOME content can be soloed. That’s it.

Eh, look, I’m not an absolutist. I don’t need perfect balance. All I want is better balance. Currently the balance in delves is better then how it looks like in Midnight, so most certainly an improvement over what’s going to come is possible.

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They could fix this easily by giving you a water elemental that can tank for you.

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Personally if I wanted to play a pet class I’d be playing a warlock or a hunter. But sure, that could bring some balance.

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You cant. It cant be better.

The ONLY way to make it somehow “better” is to have a Brann next to you. Which is literally an NPC party. Like follower dungeons.

Let that sink in for a minute. To make delves “balanced” you need SOMEONE else to cover your disadvantages as a class.

It cannot be done. And it never will. It’s mathematically impossible. And I can prove it if you want to read a couple of paragraphs.

But at the end of the day. If you want to play a SP game. WoW is literally the WORST option in the market. There are incredibly better games out there that offer a much better SP experience than WoW.

If you want to experience WoW as it’s intended to be played, then play Group Content. If that is not appealing to you. Then that’s fine. But be prepared to endure serious disadvantages.

hello Irisi
good morning.
in the years and years of playing wow i changed my class so many many times but i allways get back to paladin for some reason. its like its in my blood and even my first -second or third characters were not paladin.
i dont know your like me and for you its the mage or not but for me its allways paladin

Sad to hear, but I must say that I’m not surprised and I’m teetering on going back to feral druid.

The situation here is basically a result of whiny, overpowered, ridiculous tanks. That’s my genuine opinion. They can just soak up ridiculous, endless damage, and they pull dozens of mobs at the sane time because of it in M+, and if anything gets between this they whine.

Oh, the heroic world tier is completely irrelevant for tanks because they’re too strong?

Oh, crowd control is now a bad thing instead of a good thing because of tanks?

Oh, delves nearly broke for people over not having a tanking Brann?

No problem! All of this is fine. Just ruin the Legion event, destroy the frost mage class fantasy, and wreck delves. There, that should fix it.

At least the PvP guys figured it out and nerfed tanks into the ground.

Tanks are RIDICULOUS. It’s destroying the whole game.

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This is not the first time they butcher frost mage i’m afraid

they did it first in WoD

And as a result i quit the game, skipped legion and BFA

And since SL i couldn’t play and enjoy my mage until TWW, even though it is still just not good enough.

Guess i better just retire my mage completely and move on to another class

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This isn’t actually about mages, though mages have been hit over the head with it because of whiny high end M+’ers who are whiny because our class fantasy is causing trouble for them in M+ instead of being an advantage like it’s supposed to be, and it’s a disadvantage because it’s disrupting the ability for tanks to carefully chain pull 10-15 mobs onto them at the same time, waiting for the most dangerous mobs in a previous pack to die before pulling the next.

The mobs just don’t move. And this is bad. Why is this bad? Because it lowers AoE.

Tanks are so strong they’re not just making CC useless, they’re making CC a disadvantage.

This is also a big part of the reason people need so many addons. WoW’s UI was never designed for fighting 10-15 enemies all with their own casts and abilities. By all accounts it shouldn’t be possible, but because we can just endlessly chain very brief AoE CC’s and because tanks just literally can’t die, this is how the game plays now.

You know what will solve it though? Destroying the frost mage spec fantasy…

The rotational changes in Midnight to frost mage so we don’t need to actually root anything are a buff. It’s a huge buff, because CC’ing enemies is now a bad thing to do.

Can Blizzard please do something about tanks? I said this years ago, nothing is happening. It’s not because I don’t want tanks to have fun or something; this is a serious issue.

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If what you’re saying is true, then i’m sure there are other ways to deal with this situation

For example coldest snap talent can be rebalanced to replace to lack of roots

But no, they went further and even removed ice block heals

I don’t only play m+

Mythic+ is just 5% of my gameplay

I think the removal of ice block heals is fine. In fact I’m not so bothered about the simplification of the defensive kit, I’m really upset about the crowd control and offensive kit just being absolutely annihilated.

I’m not unhappy about the simplification of that either - the contrary actually - I just feel like the core of the spec is being completely eroded because Shatter just can’t allowed to be Shatter because Shatter is a disadvantage.

So they make frost mage into a bad Frost DK imitation.

Nobody asked for that.

i’m a solo player, and ice block heal has been essential for survivability especially against elite mobs with immunity to roots and cc.

but that aside.

they were very close at nailing the shatter mechanic without the reliance on roots with the winter chill effect.
i find the coldest snap talent to be an excellent step in that direction.

however they decided to just drop shatter altogether and butcher the whole spec instead.
I don’t know, i’m just waiting for the beta to test it out, but i am not hopeful.

Good that you mentioned frost DK, in fact i really enjoyed playing it while leveling up an alt in remix.

i might move on to that instead.

No. They are not.

Delves are not “the whole game”. I might argue that there is a LOT of the game where Group Content is a thing.

You cannot change the fact that WoW is a MULTIPLAYER game. And always has been. Whining about Solo Content in an MMO is like whining that I cannot play 5 man dungeons over the internet in a SP game…

Right. So if they butcher Mage it’s not OK. But it’s OK to butcher tanks? :slight_smile:

One might argue that now mages are more inline with other DDs that dont have such a ridiculous amount of CC.

When Delves were announced. And people were happy to have a 3rd endgame PvE pillar to play in… I warned them that it would have consequences.

Class balance has to be “OK” across ALL 3 PvE modes. Because we share gear and talents. Unlike in PvP.

So… THIS is the consequence. Deal with it. Just like M+ deals with it. Just like Raiders deal with it.

This is the correct reaction. WoW always has had classes that thrive in different niches… and yes, Mage isn’t for solo play. Just like healers aren’t. Wise choice. I’ve learned that swiftly after starting WoW during BC. Chose the correct class for the content you want to do, not ask the content to change for your class.

They destroyed PvP, so they got nerfed. Now they’re not obviously, but they would be - and I’m not a fan of separate tuning when it can be helped. In this case, it can.

They destroyed heroic world tier.

They destroyed delves but this doesn’t matter to anybody but themselves.

They caused healers to have to focus on everything but them, getting rid of the constant trickle of healing required and pushing many healers into doing damage in the previous expansion; and when the damage became too high to react to anything, the top teams became 1 tank + 4 DPS. They destroyed healing in M+.

And now they destroyed frost mage.

They’ve made the whole M+ game about AoE damage and AoE micro-CC. Single target builds are useless, polymorph is useless, etc.

Starting to get awfully close to “the whole game” here.

Basically, the only part of the game that hasn’t blown up is raids. That’s it, everything else has been completely warped around overpowered tanks.

Making tanks weaker wouldn’t butcher them. Notice how my complaints are not about the fact that half of my defensives got half of their effects removed? This isn’t about power - it’s about getting a handle on the above problems.

Tanks never used to be this strong until around late Shadowlands.

I do miss the times when tanks were flattened like pancakes as soon as more than one mob group was pulled. Dungeons back then worked so much better - needing classes for hard cc, carefull pulls. But… it’s not just tanks becoming OP that’s the problem. It’s the new generation of go-go people and timers in M+. Can’t take time to carefully pull and hard cc mobs, that would give the poor go-go crowd an aneurism because they have to stand still for a moment and can’t spam buttons.

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Going by that logic we can throw all class balancing into the bin. Your class/spec is in the bottom of the meters? Just reroll to current meta class.

With Blizzard creating content specifically designed to be tackled solo (prey on hard or nightmare wil be a 1v1 fight) is it really so outlandish to ask for more balanced experience?

And I’m not asking for the content to change. All it would take for me to stick with the mage is for it not to change in a way it will in midnight.

Read what I posted:

You are getting your defensive gutted because they need to fix things in M+, Raid, and PvP. Delves suffer the consequences. It’s the price they pay for the high-end pillar they have been asking for YEARS.

Divorcing Delves/Solo play just turns it back into what Solo play has been since Vanilla. A separate thing.

And WHY is this a problem? I dont see it as a problem.

Dungeons are about AoE damage because of how they are made. EVERY spec has a ST build/rotation. To make that valuable, you need more “big bad bosses” in the Dungeon.

What would a Dungeon with more of those look like? A Raid. That’s how it would look like.

So. If you want more value in ST, play the “Dungeons” with ST bosses: A Raid.

What’s the problem here?

That’s right. And that is why Mages (and ALL DDs by the way) are getting their defensives nerfed.

So I see this as a good thing. Now, no matter how low the damage in a dungeon is, the 1-4 comp can NEVER work. If you, the DD, can never heal in the whole dungeon with out a healer, you will ALWAYS need a healer.

The consequence for healers will be that they are going to be expected to do more DD. But that’s another discussion.