A nice YT Video I stumbled upon about ""Quit Moments"

A lot of the problem with people quitting is when the game simply isn’t for them. Not everybody wants the same thing and some people simply want polar opposites.

For example, a lot of newer MMO’s use a click-to-attack style of game play, and I hate it with a burning passion. I tried Eso, got to lvl30. I tried New World, got to lvl24. I simply can’t enjoy a game if it is click-to-attack. Yet other people prefer that style.

Your issue with flying being locked behind an “attunement” is because of time gating. Attunements were fine in the old game because you could do them at your own pace. Want to spread it out over a week? Go ahead. Grind it all out in a single session? Sure, have at it.

But now, if it were possible to grind it all out in a day; many would. Those that don’t would then cry that other people have an advantage over them because they did something quicker.

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wow shadowlands quit moments

  1. you hear about legendary crafting
  2. you hear about ilvl differences and their effects on pvp/pve
  3. you get stomped by a 250 glad and camped at GY while you join a random bg on a 210 ilvl alt
  4. you cant buy mounts or cosmetics, cost too much gold
  5. you need to buy wow token to buy items but dont have other disposable income for this month, since wow expansion+sub cost you already 40-60euro

oh and my personal favourite
6) you want to play alliance but are forced to play horde but at some point youre disgusted by the mudhuts with spikes, and ‘‘edgy’’ adults stuck in infantile development and quit

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When you unsubscribe you can tell Blizzard your ‘‘Quit Moment’’, Blizzard probably got an idea on them by now

You know its time to quit when you catch your looking on YouTube for reasons to quit.

Enjoy your next game.

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Not my issue. Others issue. I can live perfectly fine without flying.

Where did I say I quit? I just want to know what people of this community think is their personal “quit moment”. This is not about me.

nothing wrong with legendary crafting, its literally a gear that costs 50k gold and lasts 7 months :joy: more than that if u’re not going for high end achivements.

oh no, gearing exists :open_mouth: getting advantage with gear is literally why gear exists u reckon?

Hence why its called RANDOM bgs, its random, it was hectic since day one, minus the awful days of removing gear from pvp during wod or whenever it was

90%+ of cosmetics dont require gold

i bought 0 wow tokens in my life and somehow im managing

shadowlands is awful but not for any of those reasons lmao

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Actions speak louder than words.

Yay another clickbait thread.

bugs in m+

If it wouldn’t be clickbait or in any form short, very few would read the post.

Or would you rather prefeer a super long title like:

“I found this video on youtube from a guy that speaks a lot about games so I thought I bring it with a post into this forum and ask about your own opinion regarding the videos topic in context of the ups and downs of WoW”.

Which is better? The one above or “A nice YT Video I stumbled upon about Quit Moments”?

I feel like this person is trying to sell me something holding the mug there showing it off while having everything on display in the back. Not gonna bother with giving them a ‘full video watch’ or whatever.

Which yep, they’re a youtuber/streamer so them trying to give their opinion on something about ‘why people quit’ and etc is going to be them selling you a watch through. Their words have no power or validity, especially given they’ve never made a game themselves so they really cannot talk about ‘why people quit’ as they don’t have access to the feedback for each game. Further, they’re not ‘everyone’ they’re just one person so it’s an opinion piece being marketed as something else, which to me makes what they’re doing a scam by wording it that way.

Respectfully, this statement sounds to me like “I watched the first few minutes and can’t stand the person in the video. Since I didn’t watched the full video, I didn’t hear the full spectrum of his arguments and therefore he can’t be right and it is just his opinion.”

His channel is described with “MMOPRG focused entertainment and review channel”.

He not speaks exclusively about WoW, he speaks in context of many other MMORPGs too. One could say, by looking at both WoW AND all the other games he has more clue about the game genre problems than you probably have, my man.

Ever heared the term “objective opinion”? With your logic even a scientist explaining stuff is “just stating their own opinion”.

In context of the videos topic I can name a few friends of mine that tried various games with me and didn’t continued playing them because the game feels not great. WoW is one of those games. Warframe counts partially as one of those games. SWTOR is one of those games. Also FF14 counts to those. All of them are listed as MMORPGs. And it is not just MMOs. It can be every game.

Another post on the front page has this topic: Why new players are quitting by Venruki (video) - Community / General Discussion - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)

This Youtuber/Streamer is also talking about how “getting a legendary, covenant unlocks and conduits” can be a huge turn-off for new players wanting to try out the game. Ironic, isn’t it? He said the exact same thing as Josh Strife Hayes said in my linked video. He just uses the principle specifically for WoW.

To make a simple comparison for you.

When a new player tries Overwatch, that person just has to select a character, learn the skills and get better by individual skill in the game. There is no character progression tied to unlocking gear or cosmetics or anything. Overwatch is in that case, “new players friendly”.

WoW has with SL Systems like Conduits, Covenants and Legendaries. All Systems that require a lot of time first to get on a competitive level, for example (as said in Venrukis video), to play pvp without getting absolutely destroyed (one part is still player skill). WoW is with SL in this regard “not new player friendly”. This is exactly the thing with “It gets better after 100h of play”.

And this is not “the opinion of streamers and youtubers”. This is a basic human conclusion that can apply to every aspect of the life. For example with my favorite 3D-Software Blender.

Example below:

As someone using this software DAILY, I can confirm it feels exactly like that the first time. I still remember how I personally said during my job education for Media Design “I try learning Blender”, just have seen the old Interface and immediately got so turned off that I didn’t touched the software til the Interface Rework with 2.7 2 years later.

Same principle, same statement. If something feels hard to achieve, the majority of people will not be willing to devote their free time to that.

Respectfully, this statement sounds to me like “I didn’t really read your post but disliked you so I responded anyways.”

Clearly not, as far as I’m aware they don’t write for any meaningful articles and have not actually gotten any real changes made for any game. Let alone worked on them. Further, I’d ask you to not to misgender people and assume things.

No, because they use data to support said statements. Not basing facts on their opinions alone.

Ah I guess that makes all of said games bad and objectively ‘failures’ then by your logic? Ah, that doesn’t seem to be the case. Weird, all alive and WoW still has more players than any other MMORPG.

Another falsehood, they’re not on the front page of anything. There is no ‘front page’ of the forums.

Nope, it’s not ironic. Streamers/content creators tend to regurgitate things they’ve heard from each other and know what sells. Because what they’re selling is for people to watch them, so they say what people want to hear.

Hehe, transphobes still frothing at the mouth angry at being corrected on calling someone the wrong gender. Especially given they’re one of the people that keep doing such things~ Guess I’ll link this again!

https://twitter.com/Awoo_gal/status/1471617073847668745?s=20

Hehe,

Someone who hasn’t watched it writing a thesis full of assumptions while screeching about gender.

Colour me surprised.

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False. I did read your post and did understood what you said, but your opinion sounded very unfounded and illogical.

And they don’t have to. Every humans opinion should be respected. Even yours (despite your lack of detail why you disagree).

I don’t have to be a fully educated 3D-Designer to explain others where Blender 3D (the 3D-software I am using daily, as I mentioned) is bad at or worse than the competition.

When you talk to your friends, do you also always demand proof or a scientific paper, even if what they say is true?

That is true. The difference is that both scientists and players can tell bad behavior/stuff about specific topics even without data to support the said statement on.

Even your neighbor grandma can tell when something is not good without proof. Simply by logic you are willing to ignore to see.

Edit: With a certain level of experience you are qualified enough to speak objectively about stuff like games and games genre.

I never said that and that is your problem. You interpret stuff into words people never said. That is your problem right there.

Those games, are at worst, not new-player-friendly in this context. I never said explicit they are bad. Just that the people I tried the games with didn’t continue to play “because the games feel not great”.

Feel ==/== Is

Not Great ==/== bad/worse/absolute garbage

Humans also tend to lie and kill each other. Is now everyone out in the world a liar and a killer? Some do that, but not the majority. Some streamers and content creators use it to their advantage. But the most want just to improve things they enjoy, even if you don’t agree with their ideas.

Ok, what in the actual F of Gods Heaven has this ^ to do with my statement or topic?

Weird you do that, but then don’t offer any respect in the first place with your responses and misgendering? No apology, no correction.

There was no talk of Respecting someone’s ‘opinion’ on the matter, the issue was that they were trying to pass off an Opinion as a fact. Hence the title of the video. No “my thoughts on…”

Well, if I disagree with them or believe them not to be truthful in telling something… Then guess what the next step is as a rebuttal?

See, you keep referencing ‘players’ but the persons video who you linked and didn’t care enough to narrate and actually post what they said and your own points to add, or disagreements on each section and instead opted to advertise for them… Is just 1 person, not ‘the players’.

Well, if I know that Grandma makes a living on selling lies or their own opinions as facts… I would disregard what they said without proof, yes.

Implications are said. If you want to split hairs, that is your problem.

Again, no substantiated evidence especially given how many people played said games for some time at least. So clearly, that is not the case.

So basically, if you knew someone was a killer for hire you’d look at me and go “Lol that doesn’t make every killer for hire a killer.”

Clearly not, I don’t see their feedback posts on the forums or them personally messaging Blizzard on their influencer discord about it.

Has to do with the person above you, hence the comments.

Ok, first of I can’t give you reasonable respect (not meaning ethical but conversational) when you don’t even try to listen to the argument in the first place.

Second, if you feel offended by a gender term I used, then perhaps you should tell me what gender terms you prefer before jumping at my throat for using a word you feel offended by. It is not in your name. It is not in your profile picture. What do you expect of me? Reading your mind and past via Telepathy across the entire world? :man_shrugging:

It is ok if you don’t believe them. What annoys me in this conversation and makes me respond the way I do to you, is that you are not even open to an if-case. You say straight away “Streamers/Content Creators are greedy/untrustable people” in one choice of words or the other and also stick to this mindset without any chance of making a point. You are basically reacting like Skinner from the Simpsons, putting the fingers in the ears and yelling “lalalalalalala” to not hear what you don’t like.

This is how talking to you feels atm.

I am speaking about the players worldwide, of every game, of every platform.

It is not a matter of fact or not. It is a basic knowledge that humans don’t want to do stuff they don’t enjoy. That the first impression matters most is a psychological thing that affects every human at every point in their life.

The majority of people playing games (no matter if digital or board game) want to play a game for fun. If a video game feels unfun, people tend to not play it anymore after they hit the threshold (in the video referred to as “quit moment”) where the unfun elements become unbearable compared to the more fun parts.

And in regards of the points he made. As I said, basic knowledge and also an experience of the game genre qualify what he says. Not as a fact, but as a legit and argued opinion.

And how the hell do you want to know “his points made” if you said this:

You are basically saying. “What he says is wrong, even if I didn’t hear fully to what he said”. You realize what is wrong with your own points?

Alright, fair point.

I leave this uncommented.

If you want to have actual data, feel free to look up player counts where possible on platforms like Steam.

If you would have watched the video, you would have known, for example Warframe, has a “time played” achievement called “Hooked” that requires you to play 2h within the game. A game that is free2play and has no “I refund the game”-BS tied to it. And as the YT of my linked video says, this achievement have only 40,7% of all at-all-time tracked players on Steam. If you don’t believe me or the YT, look it up yourself. It is publical visible.

That aside, Publishers usually try to hide recent player counts from the customers. One good example would be when Destiny 2 from Bungie did incredibly bad during the initial Year of Destiny 2, together with the follow up Small-DLCs “Curse of Osiris” and “Warmind”.

The Website Destinytracker. com (a website not owned by Bungie) was forced by Bungie to disable their display of daily player counts of the game til Forsaken came out (1 year after Destiny 2 initial launch), a well received expansion in the eyes of the Destiny community. Once the numbers were again favorable for Bungie, the website was allowed to display player numbers again.

Right now Destiny 2 has average 70k players on PC alone today, with many more players on console via crossplay. On Console and PC yesterday 770k players were tracked by average via Destinytracker. com.

Here you have the actual current numbers for the MMOs I mentioned, where possible.

STAR WARS™: The Old Republic™ - Steam Charts - 10k players (last 24h), 27k all time peak. Via Steamcharts. com

FINAL FANTASY XIV Online - Steam Charts - 64k players (last 24h), 95k all time peak. Via Steamcharts. com

The Elder Scrolls Online - Steam Charts - 30k players (last 24h), 49k all time peak. Via Steamcharts. com

WoW Sub Count: How Many People Are Playing World of Warcraft (via Screenrant) 20 October 2021
https://screenrant.com/world-warcraft-players-amount-servers-popular-subscribers-total/

In regards of my friends, around 14h per game at best. That’s like 2 days in total.

In regards of the video, as I said, player counts are visible on Steam. When you try to find actual numbers via Google or Webbrowser you have to dive deeper but will show similar experiences.

Yet again you twist my words to a more benefiting meaning for your statement. This is disgusting, man.

My core statement with that sentence was “you can’t judge everyone based on a few” or in other words “a few bad experiences don’t make something actually bad”.

Something that apparently went above your head like a cloud in the sky you can’t hear since they make no sounds.

And they don’t have to. They only share their “own opinion”, as you would like to say, so that the players like you and me get our attention towards that topic and possibly seeing what goes wrong in game design and demanding changes as a crowd of customers, not as individual players.

When someone shares their opinion with you, you likely will consider their statement and evaluate your next steps based on what you have heard to prevent bad situations for yourself. At least, that is what normal people would do.

I can surely imagine you not being someone of those normal people, since you did everything but acting normal in this conversation.

You did at no point open up your mind for considering the opposite of what you think. You did at no point try to have an objectively oriented conversation. All you did was basically say “I don’t trust youtubers/streamers. They are wrong. They claim stuff that is not true for money.” without any prove on your own side for that claim. Not a single explanation in detail about your own experiences. Just straight out “I don’t trust youtubers/streamers. They are wrong. They claim stuff that is not true for money.”

“Guess the News in the TV are also not true since they have advertisements running before them?” ← That is your logic, man.

Ok, that was a misunderstanding then.

My last Quit Moment was the day I read the interview with Ion saying Flying was gone for good. I went straight into my account screen and hit the cancel sub button. I didn’t come back until Tanaan Jungle and Flying was introduced.

My favourite Quit Moment (is not mine nor in WoW) was one evening when a mate and I were flying around in Eve chatting on Teamspeak. Another mate came into the channel saying he was going to join us. He logged into Eve and went through the gate, then he’s game crashed. When he got back in his ship was in pieces drifting through cold space. The tirade of swearing and the instant Rage-Quit was hilarous to those of us not in the midst of raging.
We still talk about it sometimes…

I can totally understand that. I have never played Eve, but as far as I know, ships are very, very expensive there, right?

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