Why new players are quitting by Venruki (video)

This pretty much sums up all my experience with people that were interested to play some wow in the last few months. I had friends that were interesting to try Shadowlands, returning players and new ones. They just felt the entry barier was too big.
There can allways be a complex discussion about having a lot of things to do in the game and many systems and ways to improve our characters. And that sometimes can be a very fun. However… at the end of the day. This is simply the experience many players have when try to start playing the game. This foundation of retail wow… is not working.
I wish next expansion to scrap this model… and rebuild the game with the foundation we used to like and know that worked.
The character progression system was simple - GEAR. THe sources of the gear were clear and everyone could do the content they want to obtain it. No chores. No hamsterwheels and endless power grinds. No needs of catchup systems of the systems…
Create a character and jump in the first thing you want to do - start gearing him up - dungeons, raids… pvp.
The borrowed power systems were simple - Tier sets. And they were interesing, providing different ways to play your character each tier. Not needing to balance those around few other borrowed power systems.

And dont get me wrong… i like the extra complexity a game can offer. Im all about different talent trees/conduits/soulbinds/legendaries and whatnot… but all those things should come naturally and be fully obtainable and upgrade-able by playing the game the way you want it.
(examples) I dont want to do thorgast every week… i should be able to get my legendaries by doing only dungeons… I dont want to do daily quests for months to upgrade my conduits and get my sockets… I should be able to do those by doing only raiding…

I know many of those things are getting adressed soon in the next patch. But again. That broken foundation of Shadowlands will be pain for any new player unless we get instantly max renown/full conduit upgrades and everything unlocked the moment we hit lvl 60.

I may sounds stupid… i may have missed something… I have not played the game in 3 months… and i miss it :frowning:

Sorry if the video has been alrdy posted (seached and didnt see it).
But yeah… hope this type of feedback gets noticed.

TLDR : Allow us to play the game the way we want… Do the content we want, without missing out on power/progress by not doing another content.

Suffer well! :smiley:


We are so blessed to live in epoch with great philosophers such as Venruki, Asmongold, Belluar, Preach and many more.

Their wisdom will echo thru centuries that are yet to come, and people of the future will look back at our time with great admiration, and some even with a envy.
Early days of the academy of youtube, how glorious must have been…they will wonder.

And glorious it is.

  • Rainblood joins the party

Well more like millenia no ? :thinking: Each era produce some prophet after Moses and the like we are now living in the golden era of humanity with people like asmon and all the other you mentioned !

Sometimes i despair , i doubt the future of humanity but then i see their face and i immediatly find my confidence in humanity and hope of a better futur restored !


It is a good video. We already have a thread about it: Convoluted systems on top of systems


Streamer. I don’t give a hot damn.

When they play the game as an MMORPG I might care. When they play it merely as an MMO then their opinion is of secondary importance.

Gearing up is cool, everyone loves it, but placing such slavish importance upon it as the be all and end all of -GAMES- then I just switch off. Because they aren’t playing the game right. By right, I mean, in accordance with the genre of game. To do that, you would need to be not just doing Dungeons, Raids or PvP, but also Questing in the actual Game world, soaking up the story, and RPing. Given the contempt Streamers have for the actual genre of game, I find it really hard to engage with them trying to sell me an opinion on something they haven’t got a clue about.

All people I would probably find as dull as ditchwater if I was forced to share a pub table with. Apart from Asmongold. That wouldn’t be dull. After his antics on the major RP realm on the EU Servers, he wouldn’t even have a chance to sit down before there was a fist-weak chin interface moment. He is a scandalously obvious hypocrite and deserves nothing more than scorn.

Trust me, it’s better than…uhh…Myspace, or…telephoning your friends, or writing letters?

Actually, no, the last is cool. Nothing is more emotionally charged and a turn on (I don’t mean sexually, I mean just a ‘turn on’ as in ‘You now have my full and undivided attention’) than receiving a letter someone has written by hand.

Let me bask in it. I can, with all truthfulness say that I have lived during two millennia, two centuries and four decades.

Which makes me sound like an awesome Vampire or something, which as an Elder Goth is amazing! It sounds like I am saying I am 2,240 years old! As opposed to just “I’m nearly 50”
Come on, how cool is that?

I am going to break a forum ‘tradition’ and wholeheartedly agree with everything Ussrainblood has typed. Because I do. I despair at Humanity as a whole, but when I see the individuals, then I care, and give a damn.

It’s a cool video, but nothing new, they’re nipping at the heels of Streamers long before, and those streamers were dull too…

That is the major reason they are not a good bar to set your expectations at. They’re not even expressing their own opinion. They’re selling you your -own- opinion back to you.

Taps his head "Think for yourself yo’ "


Denying guys point when it’s valid just because he is a streamer makes as much sense as pretending the problem doesn’t exist. Even if streamers tend to say stupid things everyone might something right and in this case I agree with Ven. Why? 2 months ago I bought NA acc because I mainly play PvP and sometimes work late. After 2 am lfg is pretty much dead and it’s hard to find good partners. At the same time NA is at it’s peak. I decided I’ll make another shaman there. When I got 60 and realized I have to do campaign. Get renown and actually grind honor to gear. I gave up.

Making new char when you have one is easy. Making new char when you joined after long break isn’t. Doesn’t matter if play M+, raid or PvP. You have to do your campaign to unlock 3 soulbinds and to start Korthia campaign to unlock flying. Then probably farm full honor gear as I have no char to send chests from. Otherwise noone would accept me from lfg. This is just ridiculus. We aren’t far from 8.3 state. The whole thing might be resolved next expansion by getting rid of borrowed power. Maybe it’s time to rework talents. Add both old ones and keep these. Old ones to choose passives and current ones for active spells. Borrowed power is ruining game experience for the third expansion in a row.

For now to enjoy WoW you either have to just don’t give a crap about being good and gear and play lfg and farm transmogs or be a tryhard playing whole day as streamer. There is nothing in between.


That’s just the forums. If Asmongold made a video concluding that Orgrimmar is a horde city, people on forums would go bananas.


The psychologist team of Blizzard analyzed that these hamster wheels are the best ‘reason’ to spend cash on tokens to buy progress. This is the only motivation to keep this bs going.

Blizzard does not care about a genuine player experience, they just want to squeeze every last bit from the whales who play early at release.


There is already an ongoing thread. No need of new one.


This line alone tells me you have nothing of substance to add to this convo, I’m no fan of streamers, I find watching a guy playing a game is like watching paint dry. but he has a point. the hoops, grinds and time gated stuff you have to do to access some content just isn’t worth it.


he is absolutely right yes.
Friend of mine starting playing again to do some m+. He didnt play since early bfa.
He is some sort of tryhard and if he wants to do something he will do whats necessary.
Took him 2 month to get to a point where he can enjoy the game. And he really played a lot from what I saw.
But he absolutely hated the long and boring campaign and torghast. Burned himself super hard on all this content that he did not enjoy.
Wouldnt be surprised if he quits.

Its super stupid to have things that are power level related (like conduits and legis) tied to one content.
In the past expansions I personally never thought it was good design to have tier sets only from raids as well.
I hope we never see something like that ever again.

If you cant make a game without burrowed powers: Just give us currency (not something that takes up all of our backspace but real currency like valor) for every content we do (dungeons, raids, pvp, wq) and let us buy burrowed powers with it. Give us back weekly bonuses/daily bonuses. Let us enjoy the game the way we want it to!
Incentivize players to do content they normally wouldnt do. Dont force them to!
I guess everybody would have been ok with doing torghast once a week for a nice bonus. But forcing players to 24/7 it for a legi? WHY


The problem is that the game has no real content depth that would last for a long period of time, except pvp. They create random bs of various types and force you to do it, if you dont want to have a huge gear gap between you and the competition.

PvP gives ppl endless content to repeat without being too bored, but is completely abandoned in SL and it turned into a clown fiesta nobody actually enjoys.

LFG system is the main plague of this game imo. Sure, some ppl who dedicate their lives to guilds and have regular raids or dungeons are fine, but whos willing to do that as a fully functional adult? Why do I have to spend hours and hours every day afking a city hub to get a group for anything at all? I come home from work and instead of 2 hours of lfg afk, I want to queue into content and ppl with similar gear, goals and rating to play. This would promote ppl playing different than just meta specs and actually good players would go up in rating, rio or whatever you pick, not being discriminated based on their class, spec or achievements, which new ppl just dont have.


No thank you. We had queues for super hard hc dungs in early cata. It was absolutely terrible.


So afking a city not being able to do anything is actually better for you? Dunno man, but if I have few hours a day to play MAX, I dont want spend half or 2/3 of it afking a city. Im not saying they have to completely remove the current screwed system. There is nothing wrong with keeping it for ppl like you, but imo the vast majority of us would benefit from my idea being added on top of that. Works in other games and there is no reason it wouldnt work here.

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I get your point and understand it.
But judging from your profile you are talking about being able to queue up with random ppl for m+15+ dungs.
Past has proven it literally destroyes the game so: no thank you

out of curiosity, what went wrong?

No, I played m+ only for the mount due to content drought, because everything pass that means very specific class/spec requirement (not that you need it, ppl just require it for inv) to get into groups and even more afking, which I hate from the bottom of my soul and cba doing it.
If you actually checked my profile, you would see Im mainly pvp player. PvE is a side content for me, especially the forced pve content.
I understand you dont like it, but its not like you lose your option to play with self picked ppl. Its about the rest of the community to get a better experience and actually play the game instead of just being bored and annoyed by not getting into any group at all.

millions of ppl quit in a month

To be fair, you can’t exactly have a good RPG AND a good MMO. One has to sacrifice parts to feed the other. The story, the player adventures, the RP elements are essential for a good rpg but are utterly skewered when applied to an MMO component. The only two games that I know that had a sort of working system for both are SWTOR and Deep Rock Galactic, both for different reasons.

SWTOR glorifies your personal quest and your storyline, allowing you to immerce yourself in the story directly and influence it in small details. It has an amazing RPG component that many MMOs lack nowdays - you actually interact with the story in ways that may be insignificant to the plot but are important for building your characters essense and, well, character.

Deep Rock Galactic on the other hand has no storyline. Instead, it is all about an adventure. You are a dwarf, you are a miner in space, and there are tonns of money to be made. Drink your ale, call your friends, kill bugs, pet robots, rock and stone to the bone. Every run feels like a small adventure that you undertake, which always amazed me as to how brilliant the design for it all was.
My point being, this particular phrase is rather meaningless:

It is meaningless because the nature of the MMORPG is finite, the entire point is progressing and having a chance to do content, because sooner or later everything will be meta’d to oblivion. The fact of the matter is, Blizz forced the playerbase into a loop of systems which live off each other and constantly make you run around like a mouse, where you HAVE TO optimise your gear or you have nothing to do because the only gameplay WoW has anymore is the “current content”. It’s not MMO as well as it’s not RPG. It’s a theme park with less gameplay than an old classic RPG (or a modern one).


I find it Ironic that levels were squished to 60 because it was daunting for new players to see that you must reach lvl 120 to get max level.
But now people stop playing early anyway because of how much you must go through at 60 to be viable especially if you intend to raid which i imagine a bunch of new players want to do too although probably not on a mythic level.

Anyway, there’s simply too much to do at max level, Legion had the perfect balance imo, you could catch up to your main pretty damn fast and new players had access to good enough gear through Argus.