Which RPG Elements were removed or streamlined in cataclysm?
They removed armor and spellpen, but added a new stat as well
They added reforging
They reworked loot to create parity between 10 and 25 man
There are 2 obtainable legendaries
A new profession
Ok, talents got streamlined. There are currently between all classes and specs 3 specs in total that wouldn’t work under the cata talent constraints (preg pvp pal, aoe spec felstriker rogue, dw uh tank dk) that are still actively used.
I don’t get where except from the world rework this hate is coming from.
I have bad news. This has been most players for all of vanilla classic, tbc classic and wotlk classic. The era of a MMO as a discovery game is long gone, and it’s not the game’s fault either. New games that come out are measured on their endgame content only, nobody cares or cared about the leveling experience there either.
None of those are RPG elements they are game mechanics.
And the fact that people on these forums view all iterations of the game as a ‘raiding lobby’ does not justify removing the option and the choice for those people who still view it as an MMORPG - because yes, there are still players who enjoy the RPG part of an MMORPG. Shouldn’t they be given the opportunity?
I’m playing for the progression of raids. There’s no way in hell ICC is going to keep me amused for 10 more months.
I’m not complaining and I’m not dissatisfied with what I have. I know what I have and I accept it for what it is, I’m arguing with you and many others because you blame Cataclysm for things that WoTLK introduced.
Some of you need a cold reality check.
Perhaps then the poster above might want to not define Cataclysm by the very things WoTLK has?
You’ve mistaken the reflection of the stars in a pond for the actual sky. I have every right not to like Cataclysm, and having played every expansion since TBC, my opinion is firm. My issue isn’t with what WotLK introduced, which I found great, but with how Cataclysm, in my view, spoiled the game. You need to learn to read with understanding and respect others’ opinions. What you’re doing comes off as toxic and unacceptable. This thread is for those who love WotLK and want it preserved, not for detractors. While you’ve criticized many aspects of WoW, I accept WotLK as it is. As a mainly PvP player, perhaps this perspective will enlighten you. Time will show who’s in for a rude awakening.
Let’s be perfectly clear here. For me it’s not cata is bad and wotlk is good. Every part of this 50/50 in the middle both expansions had good and bad things. Not even a discussion what people want or not. If you read the forums and messageboards and social media. I think blizzard is accurate with stating the community is split 50/50 on this.
For me it’s about giving an option. Don’t force people in things they don’t wanna do. If you wanna play cata please do have fun. No hard feelings. But the other way around too.
If they are gonna force this. Every player that you talk about splitting in the old servers is gonna quit playing anyway. So it will happen. Not because the content is bad. Because they are forced. That is the problem.
So the cata servers are gonna go at least 40% less. Wich makes it less profitable for blizzard.
Consider this part. You leave the old servers up. Community is gonna split. People have the option. In 6 months they are sick of ICC (as people state more or less). And they move on to cata after maybe.
If Blizzard goes trough with this. They are gonna loose on this. And the players that want cata loose on this. They can save a lot. With doing something that was stated in the q&a as something that they could do easily. And absolutely not will outweigh the cost vs profit for them. From business standpoint its bonkers.
I said it before and i will say it again : If you wan’t too play cata please do it is your right. Give others the option to get what they want too. It is that easy.
I really don’t understand why it would be so difficult to keep a couple WotLK servers online for current and future players who want to experience it. There’s tens of thousands of people who played it on private servers for years so why not profit from those users directly and have them keep up their WoW subscription? Even if I think with just pure profit in mind it simply doesn’t make business sense.
The only thing that I can think of is that they’re worried Classic Cata will get smaller numbers and seem like a less successful release if they don’t force 100% of WotLK players into it.
I suspect Blizzard dont allow WOTLK era servers just trying to avoid canibalizate Cataclysm population. A new expansion release dont only means more income from epic/heroic resell editions, rather more trading of tokens, each token purchased to blizzard is 20usd+ bank account. Offering WotLK ERA means a risk for this business model. In my opinion this is a very dirty move from Blizzard
Not every player. Maybe 50%. Maybe even 80%. But there exist players who would prefer to play wotlk era who will play cata instead.
Making numbers up makes you sound unserious. You have no idea of that, and no access to the data that would even allow you to make an educated guess. Neither do I. But I don’t assume that the people who do have access to the data are deliberately shooting themselves in the foot.
Its not making things up. It’s an educated guess. Look at social media. Look at the forums. Everything is split in the middle. I didnt believe it at first also. I tought it was way worse. After doing research i admitt i was wrong on that. I find it funny that blizzard both on blizzcon and Q&A said this is the data this is where we go by. This is how we see it. And that everyone has an open conversation without knowing what blizzard says. The data is also findable. Serverpopulations , faction balances. If you look it up you will find it.
I am pretty sure in the real world it will not happen as they see it. I started playing in wow with 10 friends. 7 quit at cata. 5 Of them came back with classic. And 4 of them already cancelled their subscription last week. If this is worst case scenario. I think 40% is a very soft guess. If you read the forums and listen to what Blizzard says its not hard to figure numbers out. Not too mention what people talk about on social media. Read comments , read forums.
I don’t think like you said they will do it on purpose. I think and i think that’s what you think too that this is not that bad. People will do it anyway. And i hope i am wrong for their sake. But in this case i don’t see that happening.
Don’t forget this has nothing to do with cata being a bad game. This has nothing to do that the lich king is pure gold. No it’s about nostalgia. And people don’t pay for nostalgia they don’t want. Thats nr 1.
Nr 2 and thats for me the biggest issue that makes me mad on this part. They want to have a new face. Look we changed. We are doing things better. Whole blizzcon and the q&a they were saying we don’t want to force things. We respect your time. But we are all forced into cata ? That really doesn’t sit well with me. And no amount of data. Or whatever they say will change it. Not even reasons they have. They do what they said they were not gonna do. And for people that i talk with in real life this is the point that makes 90% of them say we quit. And a quick edit. If it would cost them much. If it was not viable maybe i could understand. But they said it could be done easily. It’s not that hard. And thats what makes it way worse. For them it’s nothing. And we still get forced.
And if you really want data. Look at the blizzcon panel about classic. The whole time talking about cata the room was dead silent. Not a single clap or whoo. If it was not that bad i think certainly over there we all could have noticed.
They do the same thing as back then when they said they didnt want to do a classic nobody was gonna play it. They are making the same mistake again. And it really pains me to see them do it. I’d rather play with my friends.
And after playing for 20 years a lot more years playing and loving blizzard games. And this makes me take to the forums. I am dead serious about this
You do know that forums, social media and your own in-group aren’t representative samples and therefore not usable for extrapolation like that, right?
about 90% of people I know continue to cata, and most like cata better then wotlk and indeed even vanilla.
Mine is also not representative, difference is I know that.
Thats an anecdote. It means nothing. Drawing any conclusions from that is worthless for a bigger picture view.
Same thing with the forums. Why do you think they bother with representative randomized poll samples if they could read the forums instead? Because the forums are a complain bin for people unsatisfied with the game.
I can’t tell you exactly why they decided the way they did, but if you made me make a decision on this in the best interest of the company, i’d probably also pick it. Pure revenue and cost aside, there’s an intangible value in keeping people going into cata.
Put it this way. If they give people WOTLK era, those people stay on wotlk. If they continue progressive classic expansions or close classic, some of the people who would have been stuck (and undermonetized) on wotlk era will move to retail and engage in the real goal (battlepass based monetization) for the company.
Blizzcon is like the forums. It’s a subgroup of players, not a representative sample. It means nothing. Less then nothing actually. Depending on their strategic view, if the blizzcon crowd is hyped about something, it might be a negative indicator.
It could also be the case of course that they once again have blinders on and are making irrational decisions, but from everything you mentioned, you can’t infer that. Forums, Blizzcon and Social media means absolutely nothing. I’m tired of people pretending carebears represent anything except the carebear subgroup of this game’s playerbase.
I totally agree with anything you say. Basicly you prove my point. Like i said i make an educated guess. Based on the data we have at hand. And ask any statistic analyst. (Guess my education ). You will get to hear that both our views are correct. And put them together you get exactly what i told you the numbers are 50/50 straight in the middle. I can go more into statistics and why its more representable then you think but that doesn’t matter. If you ever have time look up how advertizing is made. You will be surprised how mindblowingly close it is done from what we are talking about here. And it works big time.
Bt there are only 2 things you leave out of this summation.
First of all. Whatever side you are on. 1 Side gets what they want. Other side doesn’t. And same as with vanilla before we will keep talking asking and putting things on the forums if you like it or not. You have every right to complain if we were talking about not wanting cata and that they should shut it down. But we don’t. Bottomline its a verry bad move from blizzard for 50% (i will edit this to some) of us. And i already explained my reasons. Like every player has its others. Maybe accept that people have other views. The world is different for all of us. Thats what makes it beautifull. We want choises not being forced something we don’t like. And even it was 99% to 1% that 1% should still be allowed to ask for what they want. Every time and every day. They pay just as much money and care just as much as the rest.
That brings us to my second point. You forget 1 big thing in your story here. It is an old game. Something we already did we already played and payed for (most of us). If we had this discussion about something like the war within or something new in retail. I would totally agree with you in a heartbeat even with these numbers. But this is like a movie you saw in theaters 20 years ago and you tought it was the baddest movie you ever saw. And 20 years later they bring back an anniversary edition back in theaters you really gonna pay money again for it ? Even if there are other people that haven’t seen it yet or people that love it ? You still won’t i guess.
You say it’s not representative. Maybe you are correct time will tell. But i can garantee 1 thing. People that are vocal about this and say i will not play that (i even have not said that. I still play retail to this day) they will not play the game and they will not pay for it. They already done it. They know how they feel about it. There is no trying anymore, or maybe… Representable or not. That are a lot of people …
Bottomline is everyone should unite instead of giving blizzard what they want and have discussions about this amongst each other. This should be 1 united playerbase. We all just want to play the games we love. And bluntly saying to 1 side you have no reasons you have no right we are gonna do it this way. And you are crazy for not wanting chocolate its the best. Is never a good move from any company to any customer. And even if you love chocolate it should not be allowed to anyone.
