I would like to have a discussion over re-defining world pvp a whole.
The original faction system is fundamentally wrong and we have all seen how every possible thing that the developers have tried, it has either backfired or made things worse. War mode was and still is a good system but it came into existence too late imho. Also, it did nothing to solve the original problem of faction majority/minority. Sharding+Warmode+Crossrealm is what we currently got in retail but that isn’t something that could work in Classic since we have no cross realm.
So I’ve been thinking of a very simple solution for world pvp.
First of all, the creation of a secondary pseudo faction system. Let’s call them A and B. Now these are not factions that someone can join before hand and they are only zone wide. You enter a zone and the game automatically assigns you to a faction depending on which one is the minority at that moment. If you are in a group, the whole group gets assigned to the same faction again depending on the current balance and striving to be as close to 50/50 as possible. If you join a group while already in different factions, same thing happens.
There are ways to make world pvp more “fair” to counter griefing like max lvl people ganking on lvlers. Depending on your lvl and equipment, you can have a “fighting power” hidden stat (we had something similar in the past) and the whole faction balancing could be done in accordance to that. Afterall, a max lvl player who is geared to the teeth can easily solo 10-15 lvlers. If there are not enough people to achieve a balance, we can have a wintergrasp tenacity buff that gets applied in pvp combat to the minority.
This isn’t a new idea nor something revolutionary. It’s an assortment of systems we had in the past but viewed in a different spotlight. It could potentially re-kindle world pvp if done right and it leaves very little room for griefing . At the same time, those who want to pvp will be able to do so, those that don’t want to pvp will atleast have a buff to fight those who are after them.
Atleast with that kind of system, faction balance won’t matter at all in non-retail realms (because it doesn’t mattter in retail anyway), your original faction won’t matter either so you won’t have to go through the research of while faction is the majority on which server, those who only want to pve will have the means to fight those who only want to pvp when they gett ambushed by them and at the same time the pvpers will have plenty of people to fight with.
I understand that for the majority of pvpers it won’t be fun to fight a random player who is just casually questing without having an overwhelming advantage over them (be it lvl,gear, buffs or w/e) but I think it’s a small sacrifise from your part. After all, you are for sure way more skilled in pvp than the average player so why worry anyway? In a fair fight, only skill will make a difference, correct?
Please share your thoughts on the matter and I’m terribly sorry for the grammar, vocabulary and everything else that has to do with my post. I’m really not good in English and i’m also greatly distracted due to my brainstorming.
Instead of “faction A and B” i would suggest making it a complete free for all, anyone not either inside your guild or your specific party are hostile. call it “Outlaw mode” or something.
I dont think we should make any actions to prevent “ganking low levels”, there are already far too many entitled people who are fully geared who sends deaththreats after being attacked while doing world quests in warmode for extra rewards.
Warmode should be chaotic n dirty like old PvP servers. Its frankly rare that i get ganked while leveling but if it happens n the person or people sticks around n keeps killing me im just logging a max level n go butcher them, thats part of the charm. It requires a very specific type of person to sit n spawnkill a random low level though.
My only problem with warmode is that there is no reason to enable it after you´ve reached max level, there are no interesting PvP based rewards to chase after long term and my cluster is also way too alliance populated so i´d love the option of attacking n getting attacked by both factions. My bandaid fix to that particular problem is simply to have horde alts for when i want WPvP.
Actually how about adding some form of bounty system for “dishonorable behavior” where if you repeatedly kill the same low level a certain amont of time you get flagged as “outcast” with a debuff that last a certain amont of time that you cant get rid of, With the debuff you´re open season n can be attacked anywhere ( outside of instanced content ofc ), guards also wont interfere to help you so technically you can walk into the middle of stormwind n smash them into the dirt with no alarms being raised.
That would be a more dynamic solution to a quite frankly relatively none existant problem.
I think the fundamental issue with warmode is that entitled people flag up for extra rewards that they consider “extra rewards, free of charge”, it was never designed to be free bonus rewards, its a compensation intended to make up for the lack of efficency that comes from PvP happening.
Warmode is poorly used and crossreal seems like a success to me, but the biggest enemy and problem of wpvp is sharding and as long as it exists. wpvp will not return.
I think World PvP is fine, it was never suppose to be balanced. You see games that tweek and make rules around world pvp start to take those changes back. In wow you can just go to an inn and press 1 button and boom you cant be ganked anymore.
When it comes to world pvp I feel like alot of the problem is theres no incentive, maybe make it a way to acquire conquest for the week. You could tie honor or conquest to the world quest rewards, a revamp on the reward system itself is very long over-due as its dating back to BFA now and theres still no reliable way to even kill your own faction.
First I want to create separate topic, but hopefully author already did one.
We saw the info about new expansions, new features and (for my opinion) clear info that Devs put PVP behind the board.
Here I want to clarify - PVP, not arenas, bg or shuffle. Exactly pvp - in open world, without presets. As it was, as it should be.
I’m not a defender of classic “faction wars”, lore isn’t a reason for a long. So the topic is free from it.
Last year I spent a lot of game time in GW2, New world. Tried different things and of course pvp.
I forget how fun it can be, when you are not running between few pillars, when there a whole location can be your ingame battleground.
Last time I feel the same in BFA (two things was good: cinematics and open world pvp)
Of course WoW became session game for a while but it still possible to reverse that changes to its old mmorpg nature. It still possible to remove from most player the feeling that pvp is just annoying thing that don’t give you do what you want in open world.
I’ll make few suggestion about how possible to resurrect on of the coolest part of multiplayer.
Remove warmode mirrors.
There should not be differentiation. Warmode already using to farm rare mobs or gather the recourses. First - it’s game mechanics abuse. Second - why you hiding pvp from other players?
When player don’t see game mod activity he not motivated to be involved at all.
Remove pvp gear.
Already “hearing” how players throwing something heavy in my direction. I understood that it very controversial but will try to explain.
First - it’s another separation between players. You must gather specific gear set to be at least not completely useless in warmode. We already have bag loaded with different gear for different situations/roles. So until you, Devs, will not add equip setups (hello New world) that will be separate window and will load all equip there - more gear generate more problems.
Second - Versatility good not for all on the same lvl.
PvP gear based on a lot of versatility in it. So technically you just bring ton of one stat.
So Spec witch effectiveness based on Versatility will obviously get more profit then others.
Add useful drop from players.
Yes, having pvp is already is reward for those who like it
But anyway it would be another motivation for player to enable warmode because enemy players will become walking loot bag. Recourses, high grade equipment e.t.c.
Give players a pvp tabards
Simple idea that separating pvp from faction ideas but not contradict lore evolution.
You giving separating npc warbands that stand against everyone all others and faction it doesn’t matter.
It will give possibility to fight horde/alliance mates together against bought faction that increase amount of potential pvp in the game and (on the other hand) will give you, Devs, more reasons to remove factions at all or separate races from it that player could decide where he want to go just by doing few intro quests.
Give guild pvp content.
Again - I’m standing against factions, I believe it’s ideas that just an anchor that not give the game to bring new ideas.
But, in the same time, it could be very cool if guilds will have a special content where players can obtain some territories or object that will give them possibility to affect the game. For example: monument (in the main city) with symbols of that guild. Simple thing, not breaking the balance but anyway.
In the end. I’m sorry if this texts feels chaotic. One though changes another.
Most important - stop hiding pvp in separated “room”. “Let’s show them what we made of”!
Stop make pvp more difficult. Player must know own class and all other classes/specs and how you cant bit them. So better start to make it “easy to learn - hard to be master” then just cutting it out the game.
Look on “classic” servers. Players want it back, players want to feel different emotions every time, Players want to generate crazy moments and only open world pvp can give it.
Totally disagree… Classic features are not the way forward… If you want classic, play on Classic and leave retail alone please.
There should be as there are people who won’t touch any PvP related content, even with a 2-foot stick… Do I like that? No, because a fragmented community doesn’t allow WoW devs to puts hybrid activities in the game. However, forcing people against their will to either PvE or PvP is not a solution…
Versatility as a stat is no perfect by any means but it’s better than what we had before. Also, PvP gear cannot be removed for the same reason I have already given you above.
Killing a played marked as assassin drops a bag with some gold. Could they do more with it? Yes. But “MOAR rewards” isn’t going to fix as many things as you believe it will do.
That’s a really good idea since the lore doesn’t support the faction war anymore. However, it will be really hard to pull it off successfully. As an idea though it’s interesting for further brainstorming.
I played Lineage 2, and believe me it’s not as good you believe it to be. While some lessons could be learned from one of the most successful Korean MMOs out there and should be implemented in WoW, war between Guilds is hard to be implemented in WoW. So many things need to be revamped that essentially you are asking to play a completely different game. Too many changes at once is a risk that Blizz doesn’t want to take…
Unless you start implementing arena restrictions in open world pvp, wpvp will never be balanced and neither will players be willing to have it balanced.
The only reason you play wpvp is to ‘pwn some noobz’. They implemented warmode to allow those people to opt out of being farmed like animals and thus wpvp died as there is no more prey to be found, and people dont want to wpvp vs other players at their/higher level because of expectations to ‘pwn some noobz’. At that point you might as well queue a BG.
