A question for forsaken and DK players

Argent Dawn
1

Aside from the ubiquitously acknowledged advantages of undeath (no need for rest, air, food or water), do you RP your character as possessing the magical immunities displayed by the creature family ingame? These include:

  1. Immunity to mind control effects (unless the spell specifically targets undead, such as the ability of DKs to assume direct control over various lesser undead)

  2. Immunity to polymorph effects (possibly related to the above as the noncanon WC movie specifies the PM spell as only working on the weakminded; otherwise unexplained)

  3. Immune to magically induced fear, again, unless specifically targeting them (Turn Undead)

  4. Immune to magically induced sleep effects

  5. Extremely resistant to incapacitation and physical trauma (immune to sap, but not outright immune to stun)

Normally I would dismiss these as game mechanics, however as undead PCs are considered living in the game for balance purposes, it seems like that would leave the above list unconstrained by balance concerns and therefore a legitimate source.

What are your thoughts?

3 Likes
2

The things you mentioned are basically majority game mechanics but if you look at it out of a roleplay perspective I would say following.

The undead are people who died and got raised, their body no matter what is dead (Let it be a runeblade that sucked your life energy and soul out) or you died, got buried and then raised.

Being undead makes you overall less alive, meaning that you’re less bound to the mortal world and mortal ‘‘emotions and limitations’’ and by that you as basic undead (forsaken) have most resistance to these effects.

Death Knights were raised to be a powerful shock unit, or leaderfigures if you look at the second generation DK’s.

Not to mention the majority of Death Knights also wear Saronite armor which adds up on the effects of resistance.

The the last and most important thing about Death Knights are that they were powerful tool to battle the paladins, they’re not overly weak against the light as people try to claim them to be, the basic undead are.

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This is the only one I’d have DKs affected by, pretty much solely 'cos they can choose to sleep and magic would force that.

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Well it is kinda complicated. I rp them to have all the benefits listed above, but as Chieun mentioned some spells are targeted at undead and since undead are quite common I’d say their traits are well known by majority. So I usually assume that if pc targets my undead toon with any spells or abilities with those effects I treat them as versions that work on undead.

Excluding sap. That never works. Anyone who tries to knockout undead with a blackjack deserves to be eaten by ghouls.

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5

Undead aren’t immune to mind control. If anything they’re even more susceptible to it ( see Scourge, Sylvanas f-ing up Derek’s brains, the newly risen ‘Dark Rangers’, Sylvanas trying to turn Koltira into her boy toy )

They’re resistant against Old God corruption because they’re dead. There’s no organic process to corrupt.

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And yet there’s a surprising number of Undead in the Twilight’s Hammer…

As for other things, its fun to play Death Knights as you can play them like a double edged sword (sometimes quite literally) in a massively fun way. They’re pretty much unstoppable short of physically incapacitating them. Pain isn’t an issue for them.

The Light however is nasty and will burn them. Their emotions are a rollercoaster to deal with, especially those who have retained more than glimpses of their former life. Death Knights who are moody and bad tempered actually get a pass for it. It’s part of their existence. That’s not to say they can’t have positive emotions. Thassarian and Koltira clearly show strong bonds of friendship to one another and Thassarian does to his sister.

I thoughly enjoy playing my Death Knight as one who really tries to retain as much of his former “humanity” as possible, given the circumstances and is in near constant internal conflict with himself. To be the man or the monster, it’s an old trope but it’s jolly good fun to do.

Of course then you meet Grimlord Edgeice who says Death Knights can’t laugh. I actually got a several paragraph tirade from a well known “expert Death Knight and undead loremaster” who “had SIX YEARS RPING UNDEAD SO I KNOW MY STUFF” on why the undead and Death Knights are incapable of feeling anything but darkness and suffering and that the fact my Death Knight cracked a joke was me “lorebreaking” and “being a loller.”

I proceeded to use my Box of Matches and ran around him.

7

Not every Twilight is a mental slave. Some are just crazy from the get go, or seek power.

Now this is debatable. In Beyond the Dark Portal, Khadgar uses Arcane magic to torture one of Gul’dan’s Death Knights ( not the same as Arthas’, but they’re still reanimated corpses ).

Sylvanas was also having Koltira tortured and I don’t think she has any Paladin hidden down there. They may not mind a hammer to the pinkie toe but it seems they can feel pain if inflicted through magic.

Thassarian’s also torturing a Lich in Borean Tundra… and Liches don’t even have blood and muscles anymore.

1 Like
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Physical pain.

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As depicted in the game, they are absolutely immune to all MC effects unless said effects specifically target undead.

10

Where do you get this from? Mechanics?

Because Derek Proudmoore is literally a sleeper agent of Sylvanas. She brainwashed him.

Then there’s the Scourge.

11

There’s a difference between torment to break someone’s mind and outright mind control.

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Looks at Scourge

Dunno about you but ‘Helm of Domination’ don’t sound like free will to me.

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You mean Scourge, who were designed to obey the Lich King? Yes, indeed, there is exactly one entity that can mind control them. Bravo.

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14

And the Undead in Raven Hill?

And every other Necromancer?

What about the undead in Warlords of Draenor?

The Lich King isn’t the only entity that can control Undead.

2 Likes
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Now I’m curious who this supposed DK-expert is, because lately I don’t seem to see very good DK’s. Some of them are even squatting in Stormwind like it’s nothing!

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And yet in the silverpine forrest quests where you guard the Three Gilnean Zombies one of them Repeatenly states (and i quote loosely here) “I can not be Mind-controlled, because i have no brain!”
so by lore stand cataclysm, Forsaken are indeed immune to mind control…(the no brain thing is a whole other discussion)

Edit: I ofc mean Godfrey, Walden and Ashbury

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“A necromancer can control the undead he raises”
Wow, look at you go, captain obvious.

18

Yes. I RP some of them like immunity to fear (except turn undead and stuff like that) and mind control. That’s how undead work, and DKs are some of the most powerful undead so why not?

19

Obviously the Scourge control mechanism falls into this category (it being essentially a vastly empowered Control Undead).

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I wouldn’t expect shadow mind magic to be effective or even functional against the undead. That includes mind control, vision, sleep, fear, etc. I wouldn’t even consider shadow word: pain to be effective.

Lesser undead, of course, would be vulnerable to death/decay magic when it comes to mind spells, such as a DK using control undead. I’m sure a very powerful necromancer, like Gunther Arcanus, the LK, a very advanced Lich, etc, could probably influence the mind of a DK.

I haven’t heard anything about polymorph immunities before, though, I’d have to look into that. But generally, no, polymorph should work against an unwarded DK, I would think.

As far as stuns go… Nonfunctional bodies are pretty hard to incapacitate, on account of not working in the first place. Nerves are disabled, blood doesn’t run, brain is already rotting, etc.

They are very resilient, and easily one of the most OP classes in the game, runners up to DHs. There’s a reason their 2nd generation counterparts were used as generals.