About the state of the story

No, it does not create mystery, it creates confusion. Turning something abstract does not automatically make it mysterious, especially when the foundation was already broken by overexplaining everything in Shadowlands. You cannot take lore that was made concrete, expose all its flaws, contradictions, and limitations, and then pretend adding another layer on top suddenly restores mystery.

Real mystery comes from restraint, atmosphere, and what is deliberately left unsaid. Throwing a larger frame around the mess Shadowlands created does not fix it, it just buries it under more convoluted logic. Players are not confused because they are meant to be in awe, they are confused because the structure has become bloated and inconsistent.

You do not restore mystery by stacking more abstract layers, you restore it by simplifying the world, grounding the stakes, and letting parts of the universe remain unknown without overcomplicating them.

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That is true as well, but it’s the sum of all parts in the end.

That’s what I’m saying. That’s why my suggestion is to basically “nerf” all of what was explained in SL and change the dimensions completely, so we can “triage” the parts of the lore that weren’t over-explained by not having to put it under the narrative system of Shadowlands. And yes: Changing dimensions in this case means to put a very big frame around it.

But that is not a fix, that is just stacking another frame over the same broken structure. You are not “triaging” the lore, you are patching bad storytelling with more abstraction, which only adds another layer of contradictions to an already bloated system.

You cannot nerf what was explained in Shadowlands by adding more cosmic complexity and calling it a reset. The damage is already done because the foundation was made concrete. Players saw behind the curtain. You cannot put a bigger frame around that and pretend it restores mystery or fixes the structure. It just makes the lore more distant, harder to follow, and even more disconnected from the world people care about.

Real triage means stripping back the bloat, simplifying the structure, and grounding the story again, not adding infinite cosmic layers to bury past mistakes. You fix the narrative by rebuilding clarity, not by adding more dimensions no one asked for.

You can say there is some higher level of being but no one cares. It is the same thing as Warhammer’s deep warp or hidden layers of reality. Cool, but it changes nothing for the actual story or the players engaging with it. It is abstract noise that sounds impressive but has no real weight.

In Warhammer, they mention the deep warp but the story stays focused on survival, war, betrayal, and corruption. The higher layers exist for atmosphere, not as an excuse to rewrite the structure every time they run out of ideas. In Warcraft, constantly adding higher levels of being or bigger cosmic frames does not restore mystery, it just distracts from weak writing.

Players care about grounded stakes, believable characters, and stories they can connect to. Adding abstract layers no one interacts with or understands is not worldbuilding, it is just pointless complexity that makes the setting feel hollow.

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No, they destroyed the narrative by adding clarity. Simplifying it with the way it currently works would make it worse.

In a good fantasy world there needs to be a lot of “clouded” areas, that add curiosity and mystery, so a simplification would do the opposite, especially after so much of that obscurity has been removed in SL.

They did not destroy the narrative by adding clarity. They destroyed it by adding bad clarity. There is a difference between clear storytelling and exposing weak foundations. If your world falls apart because the audience understands how it works, that means the structure was already broken.

Good narratives survive clarity. They get stronger when people understand the rules, the stakes, and how everything connects. That does not mean you explain everything. You leave room for mystery, but the foundation still has to be solid. Shadowlands did the opposite. It over-explained shallow ideas, revealed contradictions, and exposed how bloated and inconsistent the lore had become.

The problem was never too much understanding. The problem was bad writing layered over weak structure. You do not fix that by adding more cosmic systems or hiding behind abstraction. You fix it by grounding the world again and building stakes that actually hold up.

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I give you an example: Before Shadowlands you would see the spirit healers at every graveyard, and they added a lot of curiosity and mystery by adding a clouded, obscure element to the game, that is unclear. The Bronze Dragonflight used to do the same in classic, or the Titan discs too. These were from the p.o.v. back then all very complex elements of a story that were unclear, and foggy. Same with the Dragons in sunken temple or the ancient trolls powers in zul’gurub. They were not clear, not obvious, and that’s why they were interesting. After these things have been clarified too much in one expansion due to bad writing, there needs to be a larger frame put around the lore again, that adds a lot of clouded areas and mysteries. Now, of course it will always be a bit damaged, but it can be triaged to feel interesting, even if it’s not as good as something like lord of the rings.

Of course there is a balance between clarity and obscurity. Too much obscurity will be confusing, correct, but too much clarity removes mystery. I like to read fantasy books sometimes, and I like it when the author just adds random mentions of cloudy areas like a castle in the sky or a city far away, that create curiosity

Clarity in worldbuilding is essential because it creates a solid foundation that players can understand and emotionally connect to. When the rules of the world its forces and its mythology are clear it gives the story weight and meaning. Without clarity even the most fantastic ideas become confusing and lose their impact.

Take the Winter Queen for example. She was meant to embody the Cailleach from Scottish myth a powerful raw force of nature tied to the cycles of life and death. But turning her into a mechanical tree robot stripped away that clarity. Instead of a clear symbol of winters harshness and renewal she became an abstract confusing construct disconnected from the emotional core of the setting.

Good worldbuilding uses clarity to ground mystery. Showing how ancient followers communicated with their gods through rituals sacrifices and omens gives players tangible connections to the unseen forces. This clarity does not remove mystery it enhances it by making the worlds spiritual and mythic elements relatable and believable.

When lore becomes a tangle of abstract cosmic systems with unclear rules and motives it loses clarity. That confuses players disconnects them from the story and weakens the worlds atmosphere. Clarity in worldbuilding isnt about explaining every detail but about providing a consistent understandable framework that supports the story and deepens immersion.

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its disney warcraft aimed at younger people

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Disney is darker than this. :joy:

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100% :100: facts

Blizzard want to always push the softer political themes

so exhausting , wish they could just bring the diablo grime and grit here

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Do you see the thumbnail of this wowhead article: What’s the Ideal Raid Size for World of Warcraft Classic? - Wowhead News

I want the story to have exactly this vibe again.

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All I know is that there was a missed opportunity for Faelian to go “You should do better, Trollbane!”

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