And your inability to enjoy subjective content that you deem trash is not a valid reason for something to be considered bad or unacceptable.
This pendulum swings both ways.
You are NOT objectively right. You just have an opinion.
Why?
If you enjoy something, it’s fine to enjoy it.
There’s no standard needed in the slightest.
The enjoyment is what counts.
It just means you look down on people who enjoy something you deem ‘unworthy’ and that, my friend, is a terrible personality trait to have. Objectively.
The idea that everything is subjective is a lazy excuse to defend work that is not just mediocre but outright garbage. Subjectivity does not float in a void. It is built on objective reality. Standards exist whether you accept them or not. Writing, storytelling, and art can be measured by structure, consistency, technical skill, and depth. Liking something does not magically make it good. I enjoy flawed things too, but at least I have the self-awareness to admit when something I like is trash and demand better. If quality is purely subjective, then human creativity is worthless and we might as well let machines generate our culture. You can lower your standards all you want, but do not expect the rest of us to applaud the decline.
Enjoyment is fine, but pretending enjoyment is the only thing that matters is childish. Standards exist for a reason. They separate skilled craftsmanship from low-effort trash. If you think no standard is needed, then there is no difference between a masterwork and random noise, no reason to even discuss quality. The irony is you claim looking down on bad work is a terrible trait, but in the same breath, you excuse people embracing mediocrity without accountability. That is not virtue, it is intellectual laziness. You can enjoy garbage, but do not pretend it deserves respect.
Something can be ‘generally seen as bad’ and still be enjoyed. And still be a good creative effort.
Something ‘generally seen as good’ can still be disliked. Because art (and games are art) is subjective. That’s just how it is.
Why? I play games for my enjoyment.
So what else matters in that regard?
If I’m having a good time playing a game; the creators did a good job according to me. Very simple.
There’s a difference.
But whether or not a person enjoys either of those things is just not related to any of it.
I never said or implied that. So don’t try to strawman me please.
What I said, because of what you said, was: You don’t need to demonize people who enjoy something that YOU deem ‘bad’ (unless of course its warranted by other factors such as ethics, legality and such, but we’re not dealing with that sort of thing here).
-Cinematics get 10% of the views they used to get
-story forums and discussions are dead
-the few times people talk about the story are to crap on it
-criticism on the story always boils down to the same 3-4 points
Aren’t these enough indicators that there is something wrong with the narrative? I get you can like something but that doesn’t make it good. Heck i liked shadowlands (gameplay wise) but the general consensus is that the expansion was garbage
The Arathi story was just boring. It didn’t advance any plot in any real way. Just wanted to show a united hostile human faction between Defias, Syndicate and Scarlets against Stromgarde. I almost fell asleep because it was just so dull and mediocre.
Then we had the expectation that I must like it because I’m mixed race IRL and…Faerin…no, the character is bland as tissue paper. Hell, I’d prefer an Undead Lightforged, Anduin Lothar at this point, who is dedicated to the Light, but it hurts him and he finds ways of balancing the Light and Shadow.
Hopefully, I can just ignore Faerin Lost-of-everything moving forward and we can get back to some real characters and real action.
That is nonsense. Creativity without execution is worthless. People enjoy garbage every day, but that does not make it good. You can dislike great work, but that does not erase its objective standards. Society focuses on quality because quality creates progress, mastery, and legacy. Enjoyment is personal and short lived, but it is still tied to quality because there has to be something of quality for you to enjoy in the first place. High quality work is often enjoyed because people naturally respond to things done well, but enjoyment alone does not define whether something meets those standards. That is the difference you are ignoring.
That logic only works if you believe your personal experience is all that matters, but reality does not revolve around you. You can enjoy a broken, lazy, or badly made game, but that does not mean the creators did a good job. It means you found entertainment despite the flaws, not because the product is good. You are also wrong to say good times are purely subjective. Good times are built on objective things like structure, performance, design, and consistency, which align with what you like and what you want to see more of. This is especially true for multi million dollar products. At that scale, there is no excuse for low effort work. It needs to be high quality by default. The truth is, when something is high quality, you will enjoy it more because refined quality enhances every part of the experience you value. You are confusing your feelings with craftsmanship, and they are not the same thing.
You did imply it, whether you realise it or not. The moment you claim that criticising a product equates to demonising the people who enjoy it, you are making the conversation personal by default. That is the root of your argument. You blurred the line between product and person to shield the work from valid criticism. Nobody is saying people cannot enjoy flawed things. I have already said I enjoy bad work sometimes, but I do not pretend that makes it good. You are doing exactly that by twisting product criticism into some attack on individuals, and that is a weak deflection. If people enjoy something flawed, fine, but that does not mean the work deserves protection from objective standards. That is what you keep sidestepping.
I think the story in TWW is trash. While it’s possible to enjoy it on a subjective level, there are also some things, that I think are on the spectrum of objective, or at least very commonly criticized:
Lyrical quality of dialogue and text seems to be really low
The story is not cool, and it does not align with Warcraft vibe
Storytelling is very perfomative and shallow.
Virtues in the story are verbalized, but not shown
The adventureous, humorous, and entrepreneurial goblins of the past are now very lame and boring with main characters like Gazlowe diminishing the identity of the Goblins. Goblins used to be a caricature of capitalism, now they seem to complain about it.
Everything now feels samey. All the new stories feel kind of the same: Boring, lame, sanitized.
Warcraft lost most of its soul between Shadowlands and TWW.
Warcraft Cinematics aren’t hype anymore.
Warcraft feels more and more like Disney from wish.
Danath Trollbane does not behave like a legendary hero from a distant past. He behaves like an apologetic, insecure, old guy. His vibe and energy does not match his past story at all.
The story does not appeal to young men at all, because Blizzard completely abandoned the rule of cool.
Alleria and Faerin both have designs that are not mystical despite both of them being elves. Usually Elves should have mystical Elven styles that we don’t see in real life often.
The story is emotionally unrelatable and unrealistic. If you pay attention to Dialogue between Alleria and Turalyon, you may notice how badly it’s written on a quality-level.
Wow does not feel like an epic journey or adventure currently
Many of the legacy characters like Arthas, Uther, Saurfang, Trollbane, etc. have been ruined in the last 4 years due to bad writing
I’d also say - the voice acting in TWW seems to be extremely low. It’s like the voice actors and actresses aren’t even happy to be involved with this project.
Even Shadowlands had better voice acting…hell, Tyrande’s voice actress really gave it her all when Tyrande was about to go fully nuts.
EDIT:
Compare Aethas’ voice acting to Dalaran’s loss, to Thalyssra’s voice actress during Legion, when the shield comes down and the Legion takes over Suramar.
It’s not even comparable…he just seems a bit sad. What he says isn’t pulling through to the way he says it. Unlike Thalyssra where you could really sense that she was going through a traumatic experience and it was about to get a whole lot worse.
Yes, using Grammarly to fix spelling errors and improve sentence structure is exactly the same as relying on ChatGPT. Imagine caring enough to make sure what you write is actually understood by other people. It is almost like the people who care about what they put out into the world, and what they receive from others, are the ones who actually have a problem with what is going on.
They dont’ remove constructive criticism. They remove rule breaking posts. The most common reasons for removal are swearing, which includes by passing the language filter that would prevent you from using that language, insulting other posters, threatening other posters, naming and shaming and spam. There are others ofc but those are the most common.
The code of conduct can be found here
There are plenty of posts criticising areas of the game on the forums. Just express your issues within the rules of the forum and you are gucci.
I’ll be sure to tell my little niece next time she makes me a drawing that it’s worthless.
You are just proving yourself a horrible human being the more you post.
Which is ALL THAT MATTERS.
Games are made to waste time and have fun.
If that’s what it does for you, it’s a good game FOR YOU.
Doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks about it.
I’m done talking to you because YOU are NOT telling ME what I did or did not imply.
End of discussion.
