About time to fix Mistweaver Monk (Constructed Suggestions)

[Hiox-twisting-nether]

After the resto shaman buffs, mistweaver officialy became the underdog in the raids in terms of HPS potential (and was already the worst and still the worst at utility department). Meanwhile holy paladins are the best of the best just because of a single trait called “Glimmer of Light” which also requires almost no mana whatsoever.

As a mistweaver-born healer, I can’t stand this tragedy anymore. Thus, I will provide some suggestions to fix the crucial problems within the mistweaver and hoping to be heard from developers.

Mistweaver’s main problem is the lack of identity. What I mean by is that we have no role in both utility and HPS department. Solving the utility problem can be hard in the middle of a expansion, I understand that as a developer myself. However, the HPS part can be fixed. Our toolkit has so much potential for HPS, it just needs some attention to shine. Then finally we can have an identity that we deserve and crave for a long time: "Mistweaver the HPS Machine"

Problem 1: Has the worst mastery among all other healers by far in terms of scaling and usefulness in the raid environment. Furthermore, The scaling issue causes / will cause even more problems in future raids.

Solution: Change the mastery such that it works on vivify’s cleave healing as well ( i.e the healing that goes to renewing mist targets also procs mastery).

• Vivify procs mastery on all targets it healed. Vivify’s healing can be reduced by %5-10 in order to balance things out.

or

• Vivify procs %50 of the mastery on other targets it healed.

Problem 2: Inefficient mana usage of spells.

• 2800 mana for Renewing Mist,
• 5200 mana for Enveloping Mist
• 7200 !! mana for Essence Font.

Solution 1: Lowering the mana usage such as

• Renewing mist: 2800 to 2600
• Enveloping Mist: 5200 to 4750
• Essence Font: 7200 to 6500

Solution 2: Mana usage stays the same but the spell power coefficients increase accordingly.

• Renewing Mist: %7 increase
• Enveloping Mist: %12 increase (this spell needs to be cheaper so badly though. Thus, I prefer low mana usage all day compare to healing increase)
• Essence Font: %5 increase

I strongly prefer solution 1 but both are at least viable solutions in my opinion

Problem 3: Worst healing CD of all, Revival. Has very low spellpower coefficient and it can even wipe the entire raid just because of its dispel mechanic. Hello High Botanis, Za’qul and others that I dont remember.

Solution 1: (my favorite one so far) Change Revival such that it also procs %30 of your mastery on targets it healed.

Solution 2: Remove the dispel effect and increase its healing by %10

Solution 3: Bring back the Blessing of Yu’lon.
Blessing of Yu’lon: Activating Revival summons the spirit of Yu’lon, healing all Revival targets for an additional %30 of Revival’s heal over 6 sec.

Problem 4: Low impact of talents.

Solution: New talent introduction, rebalancing the numbers of some and making some current talents baseline.

• Make Jade Serpent Statue baseline and introduce a new talent called “Dancing Mists” (the artifact trait in the legion)

  Dancing Mists: Renewing Mist has a %20 chance to immediately spread to an additional target when initially cast or when traveling to a new target.
  It would also have a really good synergy with the new mastery I mentioned before

• Rising Mist: %30 increase

• Replace Chi Wave with a new talent called “Secrets of Mist”
  Secrets of Mist: Soothing mist can chain up to 2 additional allies within 10 yards of your main target at %70 power.

or

• Replace Chi Wave with a new active talent called “Hidden Power of Soothing”
  Hidden Power of Soothing: Your next Soothing Mist heals for %50 more and can be channeled while moving. (45 sec cooldown, Instant, No mana cost)

I am sure there can be variety of suggetions that can improve mistweaver. However, the suggestions I mentioned can really help the general flow of mistweaver in terms of synergy, mastery scaling and most importantly “the fun”.

Let’s give Miistweaver the identity it deserves!

Thank you for your time…

[Wazapwakatu-ragnaros]

forgive my ignorance as I don’t play mistweaver in a raid environment much. are MW in a bad spot in raids? I always thought mistweavers were the best single target healers, no?

I don’t think the dispel effect from revival should be removed. it is pretty nice to have in m+ and in PVP

[Hiox-twisting-nether]

Unfortunately mistweaver is beyond bad in a raid environment. Their single target healing can be best but if there is no mana restriction of course. Our single target heal spells are immensely expensive. That’s the issue I tried to mention.

Dispel effect can be handy in dungeons and PvP, I strongly agree. However, the problem is that it restricts the strength of the Revival mostly in raids. Also its healing is lower than it should be in dungeons as well. So my arguement is that if the dispel mechanic is the drawback for buffing Revival then I prefer losing it. But if they want the dispel to stay then we need buff like in solution 2 or 3. But the best solution would be making it interacting with mastery. Then everything about revival would be solved in terms of synergy and throughput. Our most spells do not even synergize with each other or even with our mastery at all.

[Nasella-kazzak]

What do you mean our mastery is the worst? Our mastery is really good, it just loses a lot of value when we use RJW (we do on most fights) and Way of the Crane (we use it on some fights)

Our niche is sustained ST healing, which none of the fights in EP feature. This is an issue because why would you bring a MW over a Disc priest or a holy paladin?

I agree that our HPS is too low compared to that of other healers, and I am hoping for some kind of buff in the near future. I don’t think hpriest/sham/druid is particularly better than Mistweaver, but considering the utility they bring (damage reductions via barkskin, spirit link) or strong cooldowns (spirit link, salvation, tranq), I do think that Mistweaver should do more raw HPS.

It’s true that we could do with a buff to your HPS (and DPS)… but are we “beyond bad?” I don’t think we are, unless you compare us to hpal and disc. Paladin and Disc are pretty broken right now, but that does not mean Misteaver is useless.

The reality right now is that you have no reason to bring a good mistweaver over a bad disc or hpal. This however, does not mean that you should avoid mistweavers like the plague. Your guild isn’t going to struggle just because you have a mistweaver on the team, and a good mistweaver is still better than a mediocre shaman/hpriest/druid. The only time I would stray away from having a mistweaver, is on 3 heal fights like Ashvane and Azshara, and that’s only if you can take a disc/hpal instead.

You have hpal at S+ tier with disc sitting at A+, and then you have the 4 monkeys in the bottom battling it out for which spec makes it to the C tier up from D tier. I would still pick a mistweaver over a druid, holy priest, or even rsham if the mistweaver is the better player.

tl;dr: Your setup isn’t going to matter very much outside of high-end progression, and even at that level you’re going to do fine with a Mistweaver.

[Ulcsa-draenor]

Mistweaver main here (have stopped raiding/doing keys recently).

Disclaimer: Wall of Text inc.

First of all, I’d like to point out two things:

• In Heroic and under, healer balance is perfectly fine. In fact, reactive healers (mistweaver monk, resto druids and shamans, and holy priests) are doing better than proactive healers (discipline priests and holy paladin) because damage intake is low.
• Similarly, MW is performing quite well in Mythic +. The addition of Way of the Crane in PvE gave a tremendous boost to our dungeon throughput, even though our ST healer DPS remains criminally underwhelming (much like WW’s - maybe buff RSK and BoK?), to the extent where MW are the kings of throughput on < 2-3 mins fights (running into mana issues later) - no later than yesterday, a MW dished 150k hps in the MDI. MW also has competitive utility and survivability (the only outlier being restoration druid) in the form of Ring of Peace, Leg Sweep, Mystic Touch, Diffuse Magic, and Revival Dispel (if things go wrong).

The problem is mythic raids and extended dungeon fights (basically, any environment that demands high throughput for > 3 minutes).

To second you on the problems you have identified:

Scaling is our #1 issue ever since Legion in raids.

Our best secondary stats are critical strike and versatility, not because they bring anything special, just because they increase our healing without increasing our mana costs. Meaning that as everyone’s gear increases, MW falls behind because the multiplicative effect our secondaries bring to our throughput, does not follow suit.

To give you a comparison, Holy Paladin and Discipline Priest scale extremely well with haste: for the Glimmer build, haste increases the speed at which Holy Paladin can cast Holy Shock, meaning it increases both the number of Glimmers that can be applied AND the number of times you can trigger the Glimmer healing in their 30 seconds window, effectively making haste scaling double-dip for Glimmer healing, which accounts for up to 45% of HPala healing.

Similarly, haste allows Discipline priests to apply Atonement faster, increasing the “effective” length of Atonement (the time during which you are casting DPS spells, once you are down applying the effects) while also increasing the number of casts you can fit in - haste also double-dips.

To counter those scaling issues, Mistweaver either needs to be buffed every single patch (as Windwalker was during Legion), or to receive a built-in effect to synergize with critical strike (like Restoration Shamans’ mana returns) - and no, Uplifted Spirits (Revival CD reduction on Vivify crits) does not count, because slightly more frequent CDs, at the higher end, is only valuable if you can get it to line up with another “healing check” - otherwise the ability will sit off CD, worthless.

A possible solution would be to have Vivify/Essence Font crits reduce the CD of Renewing Mist instead: it wouldn’t have much of an impact on our dungeon/arena healing (because we can already apply the effect to the entire group if we set it up), but would allow significantly higher Vivify cleave in raids.

Finally, as long as we have a worthwhile secondary stat to push in raids, it’s ok to have Mastery be a little underwhelming, because it’s already excellent in dungeons. I do like the idea of Vivify proccing at 50% mastery value on targets affected by Renewing Mist (because the first option would be way too good), if that proc can be triggered twice (at 50% efficiency still) if the target is affected by Essence Font’s HoT.

Mana costs is our second issue

To illustrate how mana-stressed Mistweavers are: in Heroic Eternal Palace, for Ashvane and every boss afterwards, Memory of Lucid Dreams is the preferred essence by over 50% of MW Monks, and by nearly all top-performers, simply because it allows us to remain useful for longer. In Mythic, that proportion reaches a staggering 95% on Orgozoa - the “healing check” fight, and 75% on Ashvane. Similarly, the preffered Minor Essence is usually the ever-rising tide, because it can proc mana too.

The mana costs of Mistweavers are generally insanely higher than those of their counterparts. I do believe, however, that the problem is not exactly how you fashioned it.

First, I do agree Enveloping Mist costs an INSANE amount of mana. I don’t recall ever using it on any boss other than Fetid Devourer HC on farm, when my former guild was killing it in ~90 seconds (and mana was thus a non-factor). I’d recommend a serious reduction, by the lines of 25%-40%.

Second, the cost of ReM is not an issue. It is a setup spell, a smart heal, and if you combine both ReM and the Vivify cleave that it yields, it does very high healing per mana.

Third, I would like the cost of Vivify to be fixed. Vivify is a spell we spam enough for its mana cost to matter. At the high end, most of the difference relies on our usage of Vivify and its heal, in conjunction with the timing of Essence Font (because you can’t control how it heals). As soon as we start using Vivify intensely, our mana bar depletes, and this is a problem both in raids AND dungeons (extended dungeon fights have us run out of mana because of Vivify spam to keep high throughput). I suggest reducing the mana cost from 3,500 to 2,800, maybe even to 2,500. To give you an idea, the mana cost of Regrowth for Resto druids (the healer functionally closest to MW) is 2,800, and Rejuvenation costs 2,100 - those two spells together being the equivalent of Vivify + ReM in terms of functionality.

Lastly, Essence Font’s cost is more than just a flat %. The problem lies in the fact that a partially channeled EF (in dungeons, to apply the HoT to everyone for heavy party healing) - 50% potency, a fully-channeled EF without Upwelling - 100% potency, and a fully-channeled EF with max Upwelling stacks - 250% potency - have the same mana cost. 7,200 mana.
To counter this, I suggest to have Essence Font spend mana every time the Monk fires a bolt (EF fires 6 bolts per second) instead of a fixed amount at the start of the cast - and I also suggest to place that cost at 400 mana per bolt. This gives us:

• Partially channeled EF (5 bolts): 2,000 mana (down from 7,200: 72% reduction)
• Fully channeled EF without Upwelling: 4,800 mana (down from 7,200: 33% reduction)
• Fully channeled EF with Upwelling: 12,000 mana (up from 7,200: 67% increase)

Weak cooldowns are our third issue

You are absolutely correct on that one - Revival heals for peanuts, and I do like solution 1, but I would also like the dispel effect to be separated from the spell and kept. From your list, you forgot Mythic MOTHER (add debuffs - if dispelled in the raid, gives an insta-wipe).
A solution would be to rename Revival to Uplift, have it do its current healing + your solution 1 (procs 30% of mastery on everyone), and add a new MW spell named “Tendrils of Revival” that instantly dispels all party or raid members of magic, poison and disease. It is a neat MW niche that I would like to see preserved.

Another problem is Life Cocoon: a very strong external in PvP, it is absolute garbage for high-end PvE because the shield breaks instantly, and it provides no % DR.
What I would like to see is for the shield and the HoT 50% increase to be separated into 2 effects, so the HoT increase does not break with the shield, and actually lasts its full 12 seconds.

Our last issue is the low impact of talents

And I agree with what you said - I’d like to add a revamp of our favorite crack bird, Chi-Ji, but I don’t believe we can reasonably expect talent changes when so little is being done for classes already…

Thank you for your time, and sorry again for the wall of text!

[Hiox-twisting-nether]

Firstly, I appreciate your effort and time for contributing in a very detailed manner. This was the reason why I created this post: Brainstorming and discussing consturcted suggestions together.

I completely agree with most of the things you’ve said. Especially with the scaling issue being the 1st problem. It also led the emergence of other problems I have mentioned.

I like the idea of essence font’s mana cost depends on the channel time however, fully channeled EF with Upwelling costing 12,000 mana is beyond harsh. It would damage the raid scene for MW even more. Thus, either it should be at least the same for the original cost (7,200 mana) or be less. It is already the most expensive healing spell out of all by far.

I did not mention Vivify that much outside of its synergy with mastery. But you are right, sometimes our only option is spamming it and it drains the mana more than any other spammable spell in the game. Hence, my arguement was either lower the mana costs of our other spells or lower the mana cost of Vivify itself. I am ok with any solution as long as some solution is implemented.

I just want to see some movement, some action from developers. I am even ok with some acknowledgement post. I want to hear things from developers such as “Yeah we hear you and we are working on it” or “We double that MW needs some attention, and here is our solutions to implement in future”. I do not see any of these or any acknowledgement or even a single sign of existence from developers. That is the part which makes me sad.

I know there are lots of amazing feedbacks/suggestions from amazing MW fans around the world. And we should keep brainstorming together until (I hope) to be heard. Otherwise we are doomed to perish and I know nobody would want that.

We shall spread our feedbacks even more and discuss things even harder from now on.

[Ulcsa-draenor]

Necroing this thread (again) now that I’ve had time to think more about talents and azerite traits (I will not touch essences, save Vision of Perfection, because they are mostly game-wide). New wall of text inc!

First, after reconsidering my last post, I’d like to add a few rectifications:

• Haste probably needs to be a little more worthwhile in raids, so I’d like a buff to our HoTs’ raw healing, even if it must come as a slight nerf to other abilities;
• 12k mana for a full Upwelling channel sounds a bit bonkers indeed - make it 300 mana per bolt, down from 400;
• To balance the above change, which translates into a huge power creep of Essence Font, I’d remove the double GoM effect from the baseline toolkit (EF is just used in every situation already, with the mana nerf it’s even more tempting, this has to stop);
• Having Vivify cleave Mastery on secondary targets would be way too powerful in dungeons, so I scrapped the idea;
• I would polish our damage rotation, especially on ST, by buffing Teachings of the Monastery - making it, for example, so 3 stacks have a 100% chance to reset the CD of RSK. As a healer, dealing with RNG is never fun when it has an impact on our throughput;
• Lastly, I’d make baseline the effects of Focused Thunder (2 charges to TFT) while buffing the Enveloping Mists effect, which is simply underutilized (as we currently use the Vivify one in raids, and the ReM, Vivify and RSK ones in dungeons) - right now, without that talent, TFT just does not feel impactful enough.

Talents discussion

Overall comment: Our talent tree is currently the lamest part about MW, being really uninspired, with little to no synergy between talents (for the opposite feeling, look at the Holy Paladin tree, where pretty much everything synergizes with everything, the rare exceptions being Bestow Faith, Light’s Hammer and Holy Prism - the less used talents). Especially, I’d look favorably to recreating a Fistweaving Build, which currently doesn’t exist.

Tier 1:

• Chi Burst is fine as it is, it is a good skillshot (both in terms of timing, precision and positionning) and very worthwhile in raids.
• Mist Wrap, while thoroughly used in dungeons, feels to me like it is picked only because Chi Burst and Chi Wave suck in dungeons. It brings about +12% tank throughput while promoting heavy mana consumption, which isn’t great. An additional effect, such as a boost to Life Cocoon (which fits the theme of Mist Wrap) would be welcome.
• Chi Wave just sucks in PvE. It does inconsequential damage and healing while being random after the first target. Either a monumental buff or a replacement are needed.

Tier 2:

• Celerity feels like it is not picked enough (exceptions being G’Huun orb dunking, for example), a buff would be nice.
• That being said, this talent row is one of the most balanced one in the whole tree and very good overall. It is also one of the rows that has the least changed since MoP.

Tier 3:

• With the suggested mana cost reduction to Vivify and Enveloping Mist, Lifecycles suddenly loses a lot of value. Also, it was mostly used in dungeons (where we use Enveloping Mist), but now that Way of the Crane is available in PvE, Mana Tea has become the dominant option (since we can “snap” the mana cost).
• Spirit of the Crane is underwhelming but I’d keep it for a Fistweaving Build (needs a buff though).
• Mana Tea is fine; the GCD is annoying but it is fine.

Tier 4:

• The problem with this tier is Ring of Peace. This spell is so good (and can we keep it, please), has so many purposes (silence/disarm by knocking against a wall, displacement of a channel, blocking a way to gather mobs, preventing swaps in PvP, kicking mobs out of Sanguine pools, etc.), is the only ability in the game able to do what it does - you just can’t expect 2 weak CC options to compete against it.
• Since Ring of Peace is a utility options, this tier needs strong utility options to be a competitive one - the first talent to replace is Tiger Tail Sweep, which is really - and I mean, REALLY - useless.
• One possible option would be to channel Soothing Mists while moving. It’s very strong, and as such competitive with Ring of Peace.
• Another option could focus on healer damage. From an MDI and progression raiding standpoint, it can be considered as utility. It can be all the more welcome as MW shares its DPS abilities with WW. It would also fit well with a Fistweaving Build. The only thing to consider is for WotC not to compute with the damage increase, as this would make it a troughput talent.

Tier 5:

• Nothing to say. This tier is really good.

Tier 6:

• Boy does this tier need some love.
• The statue is pretty uninspired and is the most “fire and forget” talent I have ever seen. It is not necessarily bad however - the statue positionning can be made to matter more by, for example, reintroducing a WoD talent (Breath of Yu’Lon), making the Statue do healing in a cone centered on the Monk every time the Monk uses TFT.
• RJW is good, but I’d like to see a buff both to its mana cost and to its healing so as to make it matter like a Tier 6 talent should.
• Chi-Ji is another “fire and forget” talent - and it is not good in terms of throughput either, and does not fit thematically. Chi-Ji is known to be the August Celestial of hope, a beacon in the darkness, not a chicken that flocks around the place like it’s on a crack overdose. So I’d theme the talent around hope - instead of summoning the Crane, give the Monk Chi-Ji features for a period of time, increasing healing done while enhancing its healing spells to give renewed hope to everyone healed, for example by increasing their movement speed (just throwing ideas).

Tier 7:

• In my suggestions TFT is made baseline, so it would need to be replaced; I also plan to move Rising Mist to Tier 1 (in place of Chi Wave) to create a Fistweaving Build centered on it, so it would need a replacement as well.
• Upwelling is very good; however, there is one design flaw: all stacks are consumed on cast, which are wasted if we interrupt it (for some reason); therefore, if possible, I’d like the stacks to be consumed one by one, when the bolts are fired, after the baseline 12 that EF has, so that we may keep a few stacks if we feel like we do not need them.
• The first idea would be to reproduce the Legion MW artifact ability - every time we trigger a Gust of Mists, we collect a stack, and at 12 stacks, we can unleash it on one target. Alternatively, it can work like Chi Explosion used to, in WoD.
• The second idea would be a more passive talent - the reintroduction of Pool of Mists - giving both RSK and ReM 3 charges (not shared), and have a chance equal to our haste (to make this stat more worthwhile in raids) not to go on CD when used.

Azerite Traits Discussion

• Burst of Life is good, but you generally only want one copy of this trait, which is fine.
• Similarly, Secret Infusion is a really nice trait to play with; two things however: first, I’d swap the stats given out by Vivify and Enveloping Mist (as the latter would be more used in dungeons, Mastery makes more sense, being a dungeon-oriented stat), and second, I’d make both casts give stats (and thus nerf the amount of stats given out, to keep things even).
• Although uninspired, Font of Life and Uplifted Spirits are 2 good, stackable traits. For Uplifted Spirits, I’d remove the cd reduction component (being seriously useless) and instead further buff the healing amp.
• The problem lies in Misty Peaks and Overflowing Mists, for different reasons. Misty Peaks is awesome when it procs, but completely unrealiable, which makes it very bad for healing. Overflowing Mists sounds good until you realize it has an ICD of 1 second.
• An Overflowing Mists trait at its maximum potential on a 450 azerite piece will do 1,400 hps while an Uplifted Spirits trait will do (1,263 hps)(2/3)(1+haste)*(# of targets healed) - due to Vivify vast time and cleave healing. With typical values being 15% haste and 3 targets healed, that is 2,904 hps, more than double the maximum potency of Overflowing Mists.
• Misty Peaks needs to be somewhat reliable to be good; instead of a proc, I suggest to make it a permanent increase to haste, based on the number of ReM effects you have active.

Essences Discussion

I will only be discussing Vision of Perfection here. For raiding (and just about anything else, really, but mostly raiding), farting a watered down Revival, which is already a watered down cooldown, at random, including (possibly) when the raid is topped, seems absolutely pointless to me. Instead, I suggest to have it activate my revamped version of Chi-Ji (see talent discussion, Tier 6).

Thank you for your time, and sorry again for the wall of text!

[Ulcsa-draenor]

So here are the changes I propose, in the form of patch notes:

General

• Vivify mana cost reduced to 2,4% of base mana (down from 3,5%) and healing reduced by 5%
• Enveloping Mists mana cost reduced to 3.2% of base mana (down from 5.2%)
• Renewing Mist mana cost increased to 3.5% of base mana (up from 2.8%) and healing increased by 30%
• Renewing Mist base cooldown increased by 1 second, but cooldown is now reduced by haste
• Essence Font direct healing reduced by 12%, healing over time increased by 33.75% (overall healing remains the same), and no longer causes Gust of Mists to heal affected targets twice
• Essence Font mana cost changed. Essence Font now costs 300 mana every time it unleashes a healing bolt, instead of 7,200 mana upfront; Essence Font still unleashes 6 bolts per second (reduced by haste)
• Teachings of the Monastery no longer causes Blackout Kick hits to have a 15% chance to reset the remaining cooldown on Rising Sun Kick; instead, your casts of Blackout Kick have a 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Rising Sun Kick, increased by 25% for every stack of Teachings of the Monastery consumed
• The effects of Focused Thunder have been made baseline, and Thunder Focus Tea’s effect to Enveloping Mist has been increased by 50%
• Life Cocoon’s absorption effect and increase to HoT healing have been de-coupled, and breaking the absorption effect no longer removes the other effect, now named Internal Medicine
• Revival renamed to Uplift, and no longer dispels magic, poison, or disease effects; instead, triggers a Gust of Mists on all targets healed
• New passive ability: Gift of the Serpent. Critical strikes with Vivify and Essence Font’s direct healing reduce the remaining cooldown on Renewing Mist by 1 second
• New active ability: Tendrils of Revival. Instantly removes all harmful magic, poison and disease effects from all party or raid members within 40 yards. Instant, 2% of base mana, 3 minutes cooldown.

Talent Tree

• Mist Wrap now also reduces the cooldown of Life Cocoon by 40 seconds, and causes Life Cocoon to instantly apply Renewing Mist and Enveloping Mist on the target when cast
• Chi Wave has been removed and replaced by Rising Mist, moved from Tier 7
• Celerity now also reduces the cooldown of Transcendence: Transfer by 15 seconds
• Lifecycles has been removed and replaced by Rising Thunder. Rising Thunder is a new talent that causes your Thunder Focus Tea ability to gain an additional stack (3, up from 2), and allows it to empower Essence Font by consuming 2 stacks, or to empower Soothing Mist by consuming one stack. When empowered, Soothing Mist does not need to be channeled, instead costing 3,2% of base mana upfront and applying an 8-second HoT on the target. When empowered, Essence Font causes its HoT effect to make Gusts of Mists heal affected targets twice
• Spirit of the Crane has been reworked. It now causes Blackout Kick to restore 0.65% of base mana and to reduce the remaining cooldown on Renewing Mist by 1.5 seconds, every time it hits
• Tiger Tail Sweep has been removed and replaced by Mistwalk. Mistwalk is a passive ability that allows the Monk to channel Soothing Mist while moving, and also allows them to instantly cast Vivify and Enveloping Mist on the Soothing Mist target without interrupting the channel, while moving
• Song of Chi-Ji has been removed and replaced by Muscle Memory. Muscle Memory causes your Tiger Palm ability to cause your next Blackout Kick, Rising Sun Kick or Spinning Crane Kick to deal an additional 50% damage as nature damage, stacking up to 3 times
• Refreshing Jade Wind healing and mana cost increased by 40%
• Summon Jade Serpent Statue: the Jade Serpent Statue now also casts Breath of Yu-Lon towards the Monk whenever the Monk uses Thunder Focus Tea. Breath of Yu-Lon is a channelled ability that heals up to 6 injured allies in a 60° frontal cone for (12% of spell power) immediately and every second for 5 seconds
• Invoke Chi-Ji, the Red Crane, has been redesigned and no longer summons a guardian pet. Instead, it empowers the Monk for 20 seconds, increasing critical strike chance by 30%, and causing allies to gain Renewed Hope for 3 seconds whenever they are healed by the Monk, increasing their movement speed by 40%
• Pool of Mists is a new Tier 7 talent, in place of Rising Mist, now a Tier 1 talent. Pool of Mists increases the number of charges of Renewing Mist by 1, and causes your Rising Sun Kick ability to have 3 charges. Furthermore, whenever casting Renewing Mist or Rising Sun Kick, you have a chance equal to your versatility not to trigger the ability’s cooldown. This effect cannot occur twice in a row for the same ability
• Upwelling now consumes its stacks when it fires the additional healing bolts, and retains the extra stacks if the channel is interrupted early
• Gift of Shaohao is a new Tier 7 talent, in place of Focused Thunder, now baseline. Every time the Monk triggers a Gust of Mists, they also gain Gathering Chi, stacking up to 12 times. Gift of Shaohao consumes all stacks of Gathering Chi to unleash an effect, based on the number of stacks spent.
  Instant, 10 yards range, 12 seconds cooldown
  3 stacks or more: heals the target for (8% of spell power) per stack consumed
  6 stacks or more: reduces the mana cost of your next Enveloping Mist by 0.2% of base mana per stack consumed. Stacks up to 16 times
  9 stacks or more: heals up to 5 allies within 8 yards for 30% of the amount (includes the HoT)
  12 stacks: resets the cooldown of Thunder Focus Tea

PvP Talents

• Way of the Crane now heals for a percentage of all physical damage done, instead of all damage done
• Eminence has been removed
• Chrysalis reduces the cooldown of Life Cocoon by 30 seconds, down from 45
• Song of Chi-Ji (removed talent) is now a PvP Talent

Azerite Traits

• Secret Infusion now grants half as much secondary stats, but grants stats every time a spellcast is empowered by Thunder Focus Tea, instead of the first cast
• The stat bonuses granted by Secret Infusion for Vivify and Enveloping Mist have been swapped
• Secret Infusion now causes your empowered casts of Soothing Mists to grant you 372 speed for 10 seconds (on a 450 item level piece) and your empowered casts of Essence Font to grant you 372 avoidance for 10 seconds
• Uplifted Spirits no longer causes your Vivify critical strikes to reduce the cooldown of Revival; the effect of Uplifted Spirits has been increased by 20%
• Misty Peaks has been reworked, and now grants the Monk 211 haste (on a 450 item level piece) per active Renewing Mist effect
• Overflowing Mists has had its internal cooldown reduced to 0.75 seconds (down from 1), and the first copy of the trait also increases the duration of Enveloping Mist by 2 seconds

Azerite Essences

• Vision of Perfection now triggers Invoke Chi-Ji, the Red Crane, instead of Revival

[Hiox-twisting-nether]

I appreciate your effort. Overall very good ideas. Especially the Secret Infusion one.

However I kindly disagree with the idea of Essence Font’s direct heal reduction. Yeah overal healing remains the same but the problem is HoT part of it is very open to be overheal and it is not practical compare to its direct heal. Actually I prefer it being the opposite and even remove the HoT part and buff the direct heal itself. Then its healing would be less vulnerable to overheal and would be more efficient and effective than its current form in every aspect. In addition I dont like the gust of mist procs twice effect as well just like you. Hence if we remove it at least lets give it a small component which synergizes with mastery in a different way. For ex: Essence Font has a %20 chance to proc mastery on targets it heals.

But in general I like the way you think and provide. There are some amazing suggestions that I would be beyond glad to see.

Honorable mention: Your idea of dividing revival and its dispel into 2 spells is 10/10. Well thought sir!

[Ulcsa-draenor]

Thanks for the reply!

The thing is, EF is just way too good, and way too easy to use. The only way to interrupt the channel is if you get interrupted/silenced/CC’d (which doesn’t really happen in PvE, does it?), or if you have to immediately use roll/transcendence to get out of bad stuff. It does smart healing, overheals very little by design, and due to all its components (strong direct healing, on the move, grants double GoM) it is always a very good spell to use.

That said, I do like the double GoM effect - it is a setup that breaks up the routine of “fire and forget” - including it baseline is just too powerful (which is why it is returning as a Tier 3 talent). Also, mastery is going to get an amazing surge in value in raids because of the Vivify mana cost nerf (leading to more spam, but hey, can’t have it all…) while haste (ReM cd reduction), crit (also ReM cd reduction) and versatility (if using Pool of Mists) are going to get amazing buffs as well - and it’s ok to have a worst stat.

I guess it’s just a matter of preference.

What do you think of the talent changes though?

[Alewín-argent-dawn]

At the risk of sounding like a butt, is MW really that bad?

Because I can put in a green ilvl-parse and still have output more actual healing than other classes with blue parses. Up to and including heroic Azshara. I kind of assumed we were in a happy place, and I do have the identity of the HPS machine. At least within my own little corner of the playerbase.

Not that there aren’t annoyances with MW. The dependance on soomist is a killer on some M+ affixes, since we are always channelling and therefore probably the most vulnerable to being forced to move or stop casting.

[Grovi-silvermoon]

@Hiox-twisting-nether

Problem 2: Inefficient mana usage of spells.

• 2800 mana for Renewing Mist,
• 5200 mana for Enveloping Mist
• 7200 !! mana for Essence Font.

Yes, but your hots are stronger than resto druid which is pretty backwards & You atleast have a spell that you can spam when out of mana ( Mistspamming )

You get extra strength in heals in tradeoff for mana, which i know isn’t the best for raids, but really shine in dungeons

RIP Healing Touch

[Grovi-silvermoon]

They are indeed the best singletarget healers, but thats why they dont work in raids, in raids you want mostly just AoE

[Hiox-twisting-nether]

I don’t think EF is “way too good”. It is decent but not close to being great. It is true that it is easy to use, however, we should not take easiness into consideration especially after the “Glimmer of Light” fiasco happened. My arguements about spells or talents may sound illogical but there are already more ridiculous, more powerful, easier to use, low mana cost spells / talents which does the same job better than Essence Font anyway. Thus, if Blizzard wants to keep spells or even traits like Glimmer of Light then there shouldn’t be an arguement about “EF is too easy so it must not be strong”. And it is not even that strong anyway if we consider its mana cost and lack of synergy between other spells (proccing GoM twice is not a synergy if you are not able to do that consistently because of mana-expensive spells). However, if the changes to Vivify’s mana cost and the one that makes EF’s mana usage depends on channel uptime that you mentioned arrive to the game then I would be happy with the current form of EF. But until then my body can’t accept or agree with the argument of “EF is great”.

I really love your thought-process and it is definitely on the right direction for me. Especially the one you have summarized how our stats will be affected: “While haste (ReM cd reduction), crit (also ReM cd reduction) and versatility (if using Pool of Mists) are going to get amazing buffs as well - and it’s ok to have a worst stat.”. I completely agree with that.

For your final question, I am amazed to see your innovation on the talents. I can’t find anything to criticize. Just brilliant. Ah I wish that the new Summon Jade Serpent Statue that you mentioned were in the game already. Sounds so fun.

@Alewín-argent-dawn

At the risk of sounding like a butt, is MW really that bad?

Because I can put in a green ilvl-parse and still have output more actual healing than other classes with blue parses. Up to and including heroic Azshara. I kind of assumed we were in a happy place, and I do have the identity of the HPS machine. At least within my own little corner of the playerbase.

Not that there aren’t annoyances with MW. The dependance on soomist is a killer on some M+ affixes, since we are always channelling and therefore probably the most vulnerable to being forced to move or stop casting.

I appreciate your thought. However, we should not analyze the power of healers from the data within our own little corner. I think we need to look at this situation from a larger perspective. If you look at warcraftlogs right now, you would see an amazingly large gap between Holy paladin and Mistweaver. Furthermore, MW is at the bottom of all from 90th percentile to Max percentile. You can say that “Of course there will allways be a bottom one” and you would be right. However, since the beginning of Legion there was not a single scenario where MW were even at the top 3 in any Mythic raid whatsoever. It was always the bottom or 1 rank above the bottom. Before saying “X healer is fine” we always need to consider every possible parameters like how other healers doing, what is the general need for those specific Boss mechanics, how are the balance between the traits/talents, since when that X healer is struggling etc. Unfortunately, MW struggled and keeps struggling more than any healer by far.

[Ulcsa-draenor]

I feel like I will have a hard time convincing you about EF

While Glimmer of Light IS completely busted (total agreement with you - and with basically everyone), and costs very little mana, it does require some effort to utilize - fishing for crusader strikes and procs, applying maintenance buffs on tanks, applying Glimmer to everyone - whereas EF does not. You just press the button and healing happens (dont even have to target anyone), and it is mana-efficient to use it to top your party in every situation (Mythic + and raids); so it requires very little human effort, hence my argument that it is “way too good”. And it does >30% of your healing in raids by itself (GoM not included).

You can watch the finalbossTV interviews of Dhaubbs and Anomoly (two MW theorycrafters) who litterally complain that EF is right to use in every situation, which is a little weird considering how it is an AoE healing spell to begin with.

Also, @Grovi:

• We are the best ST healers when mana is not an issue. We heal for more than resto druids, but we can’t last as long because of the cost of our spells.
• Resto druid HoTs heal for very little by themselves, but they synergize very well with mastery - in current gear, healing can be increased by 25% for every HoT on the target - and when you have Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, Wild Growth, Swiftmend Heal, Blossoms (Tier 6 talent), Cultivation (Tier 5 Talent), Cenarion Ward and Tranq Hot on the Tank, you get 225% increased healing from all sources, which is a pretty nice! And out of cooldowns such as Tranq, Swiftmend and Cenarion Ward, you still get 150% increased healing, which is decent enough! So no, out HoTs may be stronger than resto druids’ on paper, in reality they aren’t…

Final note to everyone: a full Soothing Mist does less healing per mana than Vivify that can cleave ReM on 3 targets (assuming 1 Uplifted Spirits trait)

[Ulcsa-draenor]

Coming back on the talent tree, here is a reminder of what it would look like:

Mist Wrap - Rising Mist - Chi Burst
Celerity - Tiger’s Lust - Chi Torpedo
Rising Thunder - Spirit of the Crane - Mana Tea
Mistwalk - Muscle Memory - Ring of Peace
Healing Elixir - Diffuse Magic - Dampen Harm
Summon Jade Serpent Statue - Refreshing Jade Wind - Invoke Chi-Ji, the Red Crane
Pool of Mists - Upwelling - Gift of Shaohao

I can foresee 3 healing builds coming out, due to the synergy of talents with one another:

The “usual healer”, focused on sheer raid throughput by force of empowered spells and mana efficiency - akin to what we have now:

Chi Burst - ? - Mana Tea - Ring of Peace - ? - Invoke Chi-Ji, the Red Crane - Upwelling - Azerite Essence: Vision of Perfection

• A versatile raid healing toolkit, with the ability to bank a moderate amount of burst (Chi Burst and full Upwelling)
• Mana efficiency with Mana Tea, and thus the ability to fish for ReM resets by spamming Vivify in that window
• Using and proccing Chi-Ji buff (since rework) for strongly increased healing, ReM resets (leading to more cleave with Vivify), and raid utility with increased movement speed

On the upside, this build is well-rounded, flexible and mana-efficient, and features good raid utility; on the downside, outside of your Chi-Ji windows, it isn’t particularly strong in any situation, and does poor spot-healing.

The “GoM monster”, focused on fishing for GoM and TFT resets, playing around Gift of Shaohao for mana-free, short range healing (Gift of Shahao is melee range, in case you hadn’t noticed):

Mist Wrap - ? - Rising Thunder - Mistwalk - ? - Jade Serpent Statue - Gift of Shaohao - Azerite Essence: Lucid Dreams or Eonar

• Mist Wrap gives increased bonus to single-target healing through EM, which boosts GoM and Gift of Shaohao and is used to get the Secret Infusion mastery buff; and can apply instant EM to a target in danger
• Rising Thunder, for the EF double GoM, and because it increases the number of charges, which benefits Secret Infusion (which synergizes well with the build)
• Mistwalk, which pairs well with Rising Thunder and Statue, offering unmatched mobility
• Gift of Shaohao uses all the GoM procced by TFT-empowered EF to dish extra spot healing into EM targets; and proc TFT resets that fuel both the build and the Jade Serpent Statue

On the upside, this build is extremely flexible for party healing, allows for great spot healing, capitalizes a lot on mastery and secret infusion which are powerful enough by themselves - and due to the sheer amount of mastery, can be brought to raids for a huge Uplift every 3 minutes (since this Revival replacement would trigger a GoM on everyone). On the downside, it does poor raid healing, and features some high mana cost spells (EF, a lot of EM and Vifify spam to fish for GoM) while having no mana return mechanic, save for mana-free Gift of Shaohao - and as such demands all mana trinkets and essences possible.

The “fistweaving”, focused on using high mana cost spells to carry raid-healing throughput while doing high DPS:

Rising Mist - ? - Spirit of the Crane - Muscle Memory - ? - RJW - Pool of Mists - Azerite Essence: WotC

• Doing passive throughput through Essence Font, Rising Mist and Renewing Jade Wind
• Using DPS abilities in between to proc Rising Mist and ReM resets with Pool of Mists and Spirit of the Crane, while returning mana with the latter
• Pausing DPS to spam Vivify for a few seconds to benefit from sheer number of ReM out
• Burst of healing with Way of the Crane (Azerite Essence)

On the upside, this build is rather mana-efficient due to all the mana returns and near-free DPS abilities, it dishes out high DPS with Muscle Memory and offers some nice burst if set up properly. On the downside, it has no tank or party healing outside of Way of the Crane, which is extremely mana expensive since this build does not use Mana Tea.

[Uxyg-blackmoore]

I want the WoD MW back. It was the time when it was really fun to play Mistweaver. Especially with the uplift mechanic.