I didnt accept to yes mass votekick coz there is no reason to do! Of course they abuse votekick for fun! Never seen so many got kicked and deserter says hello!
Why do you approve to abuse votekick, Blizzard?
You cant play for 30 mins and you pay to play gameonline. It is so wrong! You shouldnt get deserter if you get kicked, ONLY when you leave and it is your choice. I repeat but you still refuse to solve this issue!
Do something about it, Blizzard!
You already posted previously in this threads about the same topic. I’m quite sure you already understood the subject and if you have any suggestions you’re welcome to add them!
Hint: They won’t remove the debuff unless something else takes its place.
Yesterday a total of 7 people were kicked in my LFR runs on a low geared alt. ANd each and every one of them absolutely deserved the debuff…
Find n alternative and realistically feasible way to punish this sort of toxic behavior, and then maybe we can discuss changing or removing Deserter… as it stands, I´m still all for making it even more punishing, for example by making it account wide (because the toxic player is still the same and will just do the same to the next grpoup on his next toon) or extending the duration.
To be honest, the vote kick system is absolutely dog crap in this game.
If you want to leave a group, all you have to do is participate in a single boss kill. If the boss dies, then you can leave without any kind of punishment whatsoever. This is a really bad thing when a tank or healer leaves, because they’re being such inconsiderate a-holes that they’re willing to subject the others in their group to an additional 10 - 20 minute wait time.
Get vote kicked out before a boss dies, either due to a loot dispute (you want an item), not pulling high enough numbers, or not pulling enough and you get slapped with a 30 minute Deserter penalty, which is already unfair and twice as harsh as what you get for leaving an unrated battleground.
The vote kick system is absolutely 100% abused by other players (I have plenty of stories to share about that), and given how toxic-as-**** your average WoW player is, it needs removal.
Yesterday a total of 7 people were kicked in my LFR runs on a low geared alt. ANd each and every one of them absolutely deserved the debuff…
I’d consider a 30 minute debuff to not be a big deal in the context of LFR when the queue times are astronomical and go into the hours.
But hey, let’s see what these reasons are…
2 were already afk before cauldron, 1st boss of first wing… they effectively deserted the group before even zoning in.
Real life could have happened, but you’d think they’d just leave group or type “brb WC” or something like that…
Still, if you queue up for content, there is an expectation to commit to that content.
4 people repeatedly died within seconds of the pull on gallywix by jumping down teh hole in the middle, all players with a RIO of 2,5k+ because they just wanted to leech. They too deserted the group before even zoning in.
Which is already really dumb logic when their participation will actually get the boss killed sooner.
I offer an alternative explanation. Their 2.5k rio isn’t legit and they actually paid other players to boost them. They don’t have a clue of the boss mechanics and ruined the experience for others. Any other competent MMORPG publisher would have banned players for paying others to boost them, but not Blizzard.
Oh wait, I don’t think even your average wallet warrior is dumb enough to repeatedly jump into a hole and die. They’re probably griefing and really should be punished by Blizzard, not a crappy automated system.
Unfortunately, Blizzard CS is kinda nonexistent right now…
1 was a hypertoxic batman tank that demanded everyone participate in the deathskip to Bandit and refused to revive himself after teh other tank couldnt cope with the entire trash of the wing and teh group wiped. His deathskip led him to dornogal and we cleared the wing with one tank, because he deserted the group by not contributing.
I hate people who do this. A lot of these skips or huge pulls are only viable for coordinated teams and specific comps. It really annoys me when you say… have a rogue attempt to do a shroud skip on trash in a normal which you can just mass pull and delete in about 30 seconds.
Still, a lot of innocent players get wrongly punished by this system and it just encourages bullying and mob mentality. Giving sociopathic jerks like the typical endgame WoW player this kind of power over others is dangerous.
I unfortunately agree on a basic level. That said, you can´t expect Blizzard to employ enough GMs to deal with every little punk, becasue then the game simply wouldn´t be profitable, same thing as with wanting enough GMs to actively and effectively police botting (all of the other considerations like lost income and the constant advancement aside)
But in my experience, which does span the entire lifetime of the LF(x) system in every addon and PvE content, while the system dertainly has flaws and can be used for extortion /blackmail /cryhard “you donßt do enough DpS for HC dungeons” shenanigans, I personally have not actually seen significant abuse to that extent.
That said ever since the heroic daily dungeon for Valor points (the long replaced equivalent of crests /valorstones) was removed in IIRC MoP, I´ve only ever used it for Expansion release pre-season gearing and occasionally timewalking, and more often than not with at least 2 guildies, so my experience is not really that of the standard 1A Pug anymore…
But even as a premade, S1 preseason was rough at times, esp if you got dawnbreaker or ara, because if the tank left after the first boss, which I would say objectively happened in roughly 50% of the runs, the run was usually scuffed, because the replacement tank would instaleave because the first boss was already down… which is why the debuff was then extended to cover the entire run, which i still support in lieu of a better solution, and I still feel that it should at least be expanded to being account wide so that the player that left can´t turn around and pull the same stunt on an alt while his other char sits out the debuff. 
That said, you can´t expect Blizzard to employ enough GMs to deal with every little punk, becasue then the game simply wouldn´t be profitable, same thing as with wanting enough GMs to actively and effectively police botting (all of the other considerations like lost income and the constant advancement aside)
That’s false.
WoW has deteriorated into this state because Blizzard have been hammered by layoffs. This isn’t for long term sustainability, but rather to increase profits for short-term shareholder gain.
If Square Enix, Digital Extremes, NCSoft, Nexon and most WoW private server owners can enforce their server rules better than Blizzard, then that’s not a sign that employing customer support staff is unprofitable, but rather that Activision Blizzard/Microsoft are more than willing to cut staff, employ machine learning algorithms and overall make the customer experience far worse for a quick buck.
Well, the only one of those studios that has a game even remotely comparable to WoW in both scope and size is Square Enix, and they too have a huge problems with for example botting in FF14, though that´s not the discussion at hand but it IS one of the things people love to parade around as a symptom of why Blizzard CS is bad.
What they don´t have is a hypertoxic cryhard community that is as vocal as WoW… It exists, they just don´t dare speak up because they don´t want to get banned for it, because the addons that would enable their arguments (for ex DpS meters) are explicitly forbidden.
This is however primarily a difference in developer philosohy more than anything else, WoW explicitly wants the “competitive e-sports scene”, and the toxicity goes with the territory, FF on the other hand simply doesn´t care about it.
Private servers do not have the demand for gold purchasing, and therefore botting on them would not be profitable, esp because most of tehm incl the long defunct nostalrius have active playercounts lower than a single High pop WoW realm. The communities are generally different because there aren´t 30-50 other realms filled with players ou´ll never see again so can feel free to treat like NPCs, which is one of the reasons so many players of WoW still want server /realmpool identity back.
But just for the record, neither Activision /Blizzard not blizzard shareholders have existed for almost 1,5 years at this point.
It´s not that I disagree that gutting CS is bad in and of itself… but simply that employing more CS staff will never actually solve issues such as Votekick Abuse that are first and foremost community driven, unless they´re explicitly there to pare down the community. Which wil ofc reduce revenue, that much is true.
Nor would employing more CS staff realistically justify any alterations to the deserter system, as it was put in place 1,5 decades ago when there was still a much larger contingent of CS staff.
And, what “rule” would they enforce here, for example? The rule is that a majority can vote to remove another player for any reason, and that has always has been the case since LF(x( was introduced in Wrath. That is successfully enforced by the kick going through and the player being removed from teh group…
What they don´t have is a hypertoxic cryhard community that is as vocal as WoW… It exists, they just don´t dare speak up because they don´t want to get banned for it, because the addons that would enable their arguments (for ex DpS meters) are explicitly forbidden.
I can’t really speak much for the endgame, because I do not have the patience to play through the story campaigns for A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, Shadowbringers, Stormblood, Endwalker and Dawntrail in sequential order just to reach the endgame, especially when the story missions alone hardly give you enough XP until you hit a level wall and have to grind with other content just to progress.
But the levelling experience and the community overall have been incredibly chill in FF14, as opposed to WoW.
Have I told you about the time when I freshly boosted a mage to Level 100 near the end of Warlords of Draenor and got votekicked out of an Auchindoun Heroic after the very first trash pull by a group of elitist a-hole Hellfire Citadel geared players for “low dps?”
Have I also told you about the time when I screenshotted all the abusive messages I got from these people when I whispered them to ask “wtf”, and how they cowered behind /ignore afterwards? And when I sent a in-game mail to their guild master complaining about their behavior and got a reply filled with ableist slurs basically calling me mentally handicapped and telling me to go play CoD single player.
This was in frickin’ content so undertuned that trash went down in mere seconds.
Private servers do not have the demand for gold purchasing, and therefore botting on them would not be profitable, esp because most of tehm incl the long defunct nostalrius have active playercounts lower than a single High pop WoW realm. The communities are generally different because there aren´t 30-50 other realms filled with players ou´ll never see again so can feel free to treat like NPCs, which is one of the reasons so many players of WoW still want server /realmpool identity back.
That’s incorrect.
Not gonna name the specific pserver I had in mind (as it’s active and I don’t particularly want to advertise something that infringes on Blizzard’s trademarks) but there’s a particular one that had a ~25k concurrent player count as of late-2023, meaning the population has likely grown as I’ve seen the server promoted heavily on my YouTube feed. A simple Google search has shown me several gold selling websites that offer services for that pserver.
And, what “rule” would they enforce here, for example? The rule is that a majority can vote to remove another player for any reason, and that has always has been the case since LF(x( was introduced in Wrath. That is successfully enforced by the kick going through and the player being removed from teh group…
Every game revolving around a professional team-based esport, whether it be Rocket League, DOTA 2, League of Legends, Marvel Rivals, etc have rules against intentionally feeding or griefing.
For a game that’s trying so desperately hard to be an esport (Race to World First, Arena World Championship, Mythic Dungeon Invitiational), it’s absolutely baffling that WoW seemingly have no such rules - at least if they do, I’ve never seen them enforced.