Actually, the Sunwell was Holy all that time. (Except right before BC) - Canon versus fanon

Lore Story
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These 4 or 5 last years, many mislead fans have spread a forum myth based on misinterpretations, overinterpretations and blatant fanfic regarding the Sunwell, the magic fountain of Quel’Thalas. According to that widespread theory, the Sunwell was never holy before is desecration by Arthas, and “became” a source of Light out of nowhere thanks to Velen and the remains of M’uru.
Yet it is true that Velen and M’uru reignite the Sunwell, as a Arcane and Holy magical source, the previous statement regarding its Light is inaccurate: the actual lore is full of hints and obvious proofs that the Sunwell have been a source of Holy power in its past, before being defiled then “shut down” by Kael’Thas.

In order to understand what is the topic, one should read the former forum thread linked below, because it would take too much hours to rewrite the various pieces of evidence (and the theory I proposed to explain these facts):
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17616192882

I paste here the latest review

(For those who missed this spoiler : https://www.wowhead.com/news=287546/patch-8-1-ptr-notable-npcs-zekhan-xalatath-ranger-general-sylvanas-spoilers )

-SPOILERS-

The Heritage Armor for the blood elf characters may imply to remember/witness the fall of the original Sunwell.

So Blizzard may address my OP question earlier than I would have ever expected.
If we actually see the original Sunwell in these scenes.

For the fans, this means a massive retcon, whatever happens.

If my insight is confirmed, then the author of Wowpedia Sunwell page and such “Only-Arcane theorists” will have a fit or will just deny the canonicity of the scenario.

If the Only-Arcane fanon is confirmed, then I’ll admit to be wrong and all the proofs (former cutscenes, artworks, quests) to be definitely retconed.

The cards are in the devs’ hands and the suspense is high.

Yet, I already notice that Liadrin is confirmed that she has been a priestess.

Unsurprisingly for the people who genuinely know the High Elf / Blood Elf lore, this quest confirmed the Holy (and Arcane) nature of the Sunwell before its collapse during the Scourge Invasion with a pretty clear column of Light, just like in previous lore and artworks about the sunwell of that time.
Let’s check:
-SPOILER-

Of course many parts of the lore are misleading, I suspect some scenarists not to be clear about it, themselves, just like the author of the ascended fanon “In The Shadow Of The Sun”.

I know people of good faith already admited the facts long ago, but who knows if some mislead (or ill-willed?) gamepedia writers - who spread the wrong theory in the first place - will do about it? … I don’t know if even the actual canon on screen facing them can be enough, and it’s quite sad for the sake of lore.

Edit
For any purpose, just suming up the linked thread above:

  • The lore into the Classic gamebook - source :
    http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/b8446d3d6f34a651412bfa58a8198de8

“In due course, Arthas submerged Kel’Thuzad’s remains within the holy waters of the Sunwell. Although the potent waters of Eternity were fouled by this act, Kel’Thuzad was reborn as a sorcerous lich.”

Displays of golden-white Light according to in-game material

  • Screenshots of Warcraft III sprites - source:
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/9/9a/Sunwell.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20061212071226
  • Content of WoW : Fury Of The Sunwell patch trailer - source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJuC4zpMSAQ
  • Current content of WoW : legacy armor quest displaying the sunwell of that time - source (spoiler): https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/thumb/0/0b/Sunwell_destruction.jpg/300px-Sunwell_destruction.jpg?version=6b58048db16e69ec255b1be1f742b7f8

Displays of golden-white Light according to out-of-game material

  • artwork in Chronicles tome 1 (pp.110-111 in the french version) (looking like exactly how Shattrath displays it, aka the City of Light) - Source:
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2016/february/WoWChronicleSample-16.jpg

The story telling that “something” was broken after Kel’thuzad profanation.

  • and it was not its arcanic power, since Kael’thas had yet to destroy the well in order to avoid his people to be infused by the profanation , thus the arcane flow was still efficient at that point. However, a profanation against a holy place, like a DK to a paladin tomb, displays this kind of reaction.

The story telling that Velen had to reignite the Sunwell - as it was - even if it means a little different, of course.

Prophet Velen says: “In time, the light and hope held within - will rebirth more than this mere fount of power… Mayhap, they will rebirth the soul of a nation ”

  • (debatable - many different interpretations of these lines ofc)
    Source: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=26246/prophet-velen

Many lore texts in flavour descriptions

  • the Vial of the Sunwell (that dropped before the rebirth of the Sunwell) and its mechanics - source:
    https://www.wowhead.com/item=34471/vial-of-the-sunwell&bonus=4080
  • Items and quest in the Ghostlands, the stone of light , and the fact it is imbued with a magic energy of the Sunwell - source:
    https://www.wowhead.com/item=22598/stone-of-light

“According to this journal, Dar’Khan promised the Scourge two powerful elven artifacts: the stone of light and the stone of flame. These were imbued with the magical energies of the Sunwell and attuned to have warding powers against the Scourge.”

  • source : https://www.wowhead.com/quest=9176/the-twin-ziggurats

Golden eyes that are mistakenly presented as a “new feature” among the Thalassian “thanks to” the “new” holy well, in fact are older than WoW.

  • Fact checking on Warcraft 3 icons: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/1/15/HighBloodElfArcher.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/185?cb=20060117011036
  • Here too:
    http://liquipedia.net/commons/images/f/ff/Bloodmage.gif
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That means Azshara’s Well of Eternity, the superior and mother-well to the Sunwell, was also held a Holy essence (perhaps an Elune essence) and an Arcane Essence as well.

Whatever the Sunwell was before M’uru must tie back to the original Well of Eternity in the name of basic lore consistency.

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Does this make the second Well of Eternity hiding underneath Nordrassil’s roots an Holy Well to?

Is that to a combination of Holy and Arcane-magic? Because it was filled with more vials then the Sunwell, and it was never defiled like the Sunwell… Which means that Kaldorei were the first people on Azeroth to wield the Holy Light, no?

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…what exactly is the new information? That they haven’t gone through the effort of creating a more arcane-looking sunwell for the quest and stuck to the model they had?

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The new Scenario confirms nothing of the sort. The Sunwell was Arcane. It is now a mix of Arcane and Light, because of Mu’ru’s sacrifice. This was pointed out to you last time you made a thread on this topic, and the Heritage Armour quests do not change this…

There is no new lore on the subject. Given the source of the creation of the Sunwell, the Well of Eternity would have to have been a thing of ‘Light’, which it was not. This may be a language barrier thing ‘Holy’ and ‘Sacred’ do not necessarily have to mean the same thing as ‘Religious’ in English. They can simply mean those things that are sacrosanct and inviolable, not the actual proof of Divinity themselves. For example, we can regard the concept of “innocent until proven guilty” to be a -sacred- right enshrined in British Culture, despite the fact that it originated from a mere man, not religious canon (Even more ironically, from a man who is commonly reviled as a villain, King Richard III).

Use of the words ‘Sacred’ or ‘Holy’ do not in WoW mean the same as in the religious sense in our world. They don’t even always mean the same thing in -Our- world as in a religious sense.

The Sunwell -was- just Arcane. It no longer is. The word ‘reignite’ does not mean everything is the same as before, it means that something is literally set afire again after dormancy. If I use Petroleum, or Firelighters to ‘Reignite’ a bonfire, it does not mean the essential nature has changed, it just means the means that I have used to set the fire ablaze are different. It does not change the nature of the fire itself.

Now, given the means by which the Sunwell -was- Reignited, and the words at the time, we now know it is different, which is further evidenced by the possibility of golden eyes. This is a -New- change, not a pre-existing condition, otherwise, golden eyes would have been a longstanding thing and not a recent change.

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Whatever it was, it served as a good paddling pool for our ghouls. Thanks!

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Of course it was - remember the first quests as a Night Elf: the ritual to bless a new moonwell uses the holy waters of the Well of Etenrity (actually, the Hyjal Lake).
The Night Elves have wielded the Holy Light as far as the Priestesses of Elune did (confirmed by NPC of the class hall, Legion ).
I doubt they were the first, since the trolls, above all the Zandalari, display quite good Holy magic skills.

Er… Here we go.
There are none so blind as those who will not see . Well, fine.

(Let me know how you explain the numerous devices and spells of holy Light displayed all over this event. Fun enough, I bet… )

Again your “because” is twisted logic.

  • Visual lore on top of that. You can deny the actual lore for yourself because you don’t like it. But I don’t appreciate that you pretend it’s not “there”. We call this a “lie”, you know.
  • By who with what kind of evidence? Nothing. To recite the same mistaken things that some invented before you, do not make it happen.
  • Possibilty that the Night Elves do have, already and for quite a long time, to begin with. Such a “proof”…

Again Brigante, what you’re telling is nice headcanon and twisted interpretations and all, but leans on no facts.

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I asked a question. That wasn’t an answer.

Apart from that, we all know Belves could acess the holy Light. That doesn’t mean they drew it from the well.

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This was an answer dude, but you don’t seem willing to consider it as such, do you?
Plus the “undead” spell added to the column of light - it’s not like if the devs were not aware of the scenery here.

True, yet, if the said well is shown with a halo of Light consistently in Warcraft 3, Chronicles 1 and WoW:BfA…

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Oh, well, cling to your straws, I fear no one who wasn’t convinced before will be convinced of your position now. I certainly am not. If Blizzard uses old art assets instead of creating new ones that speaks for me of laziness/lack of development time, not a cleverly hidden retcon.

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Pretty sure they said sacred waters, not holy. Which means the Well’s water has nothing to do with the Holy Light but was considered sacred by the Kaldorei. In the same way that Vikings considered other things sacred or holy then the Christians did…

Also “Hyjal Lake” is the official second Well of Eternity!

The Kaldorei “golden” eyes are actually amber, and they are proof of said idividual having a great connection to magic(hence why Illidan had amber eyes, Azshara and later on Malfurion, because none were as proficient in their school of Magic as them)

Ah, yes… That.

Tauren draw their light from An’she, Kaldorei from Elune. Most Forsaken don’t wield the Holy Light but the Forgotten Shadow, with only rare cases actually having the Willpower to wield such painfull magics as the Holy Light.

I’m agreeing with Brigante here, and I assume Wimbert is closest with Blizzard not taking their time to create a non-Light Sunwell for one scenario.

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How convenient. People who denies the concrete facts now would have gladly welcomed them if the devs would have decided to retcon the Light of the former Sunwell with a blue or purple beam - that already exists in the assets of the game to be re-used.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

which means few if nothing because:

In due course, Arthas submerged Kel’Thuzad’s remains within the holy
waters of the Sunwell. Although the potent waters of Eternity were fouled by
this act, Kel’Thuzad was reborn as a sorcerous lich.
http://us.media.blizzard.com/manuals/wow/wow-classic-manual-enUS.pdf

Please check the linked thread.
All that I argue is backed and sourced.

Please also don’t act with the same laziness of the persons here who just repeat the ones who repeat the ones who repeat the one who once read a novella from the EU in a certain manner, and now all believe that with bigotry.

Quite right. Yet, just look:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTl1Z2SbM2yuuRD5RXydw3RYS9BHOQ9d3FUTV8Ss52EsbdRTivwUw
NE
…
https://i.redd.it/bqpkgrwhfla11.jpg
BE

(That’s maybe off-topic but the point was: the “new” amber or golden eyes are not that new at all, for the elves in general.)

You can agree with whoever you want, but the canon of the game is still the canon of the game and the headcanon of the forums won’t make it a truth. I’m sorry

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Right back at you. :grinning:

Is that the only phrase you know? It was cheesy the first time, but it might get embarassing, if that’s your fallback all the time.

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So explain how. I literally see the golden-white light column, for one :wink:

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Nah, I don’t take you seriously enough for that. Your theory is pretty out there, but you present it as if it was the obvious truth that had been there to see for everyone, even before the scenario and look down on people who disagree. Mocking seems like an adequate response. Maybe you’ll even learn a second comeback.

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Reassure youself, if you like so, then I have the same for you. :slight_smile:

written by the very same person who just handwaved with a deep grin of irony in “That they haven’t gone through the effort of creating a more arcane-looking sunwell for the quest and stuck to the model they had?” = ironiception?
Not quite seriously indeed…

You do seem embarassed, I can understand that. But I’m not here to have a “rhetorical” party, maybe it’s a fashion in your habits, but I’m only for facts.
If you have not any, then I’ll have nothing to add. Good night.

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You just spend 7 minutes formulating a response to a guy who said he was posting only to mock you. You lose.

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I spend the time I like for the purpose of the people who will read it one day for the purpose of lore and knowledge :slight_smile:
Keep on demonstrating who you truly are.
I don’t know who would win or lose. It’s not like a game of any sort, to begin with, little boy :wink:

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I graciously grant you the last word.

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I appreciate humbly. Have a good night.