Affliction in SL - Thoughts so far

First things first.
I’ve been playing affliction since the burning crusade, both in pve and pvp, and i must say these changes are… underwhelming.
Going into legion and into bfa i was a strong advocate that unstable stacking was not fun, impossible to balance in pvp due to the backlash proc and would make either super overpowered or underpowered in both aspects of the game.
In legion we didnt “notice” affliction weakness due to the strong artifact traits we had that made us pmuch the best spec during the expansion after a rough start but in bfa and with the artifact traits gone we see how poorly tuned and designed the spec feels.
This WILL be the same in shadowlands because the core problems of the spec are not being adressed.

First problem
The shard system.
We have no way to generate shards in a non random way, so having spenders like malefic rupture makes no sense, specially in a AOE situation where you have to spend a shard for: seed of corruption, vile taint if specced, and then we have one shard left for one malefic rapture.
A fix for this problem would be having a spell generate shards or add corruption to the shard generation.

Second problem
Dots in general.
Both in Legion and BFA for dots to hit for some sort of damage you need 2 interactions: Unstable affliction and Haunt.
This was never the case previously, we had haunt wich increased dot damage by 20%. This seems a small “thing” but when in a m+, raid or even arena the setup takes way too long for it too be worth.
While every other class starts at 200km/h warlocks start at 20km/h and when we are reaching the 200km/h the mobs are already dead.
Going into Shadowlands this is still true, we already have to setup dots, we shouldnt need 2 spells to interact with dots and now wich malefic rupture yet again another spell that needs setup in order to do damage.
Also, dot duration surely needs to be increased, playing in classic with SL lasting for 30 seconds, agony 18 or so and corruption around 25 feels much smoother than live.
Fix for the problem? Make dots hit harder, last longer and make haunt the dot interaction as a BASELINE spell. Oh and … unstable affliction limit 1? really? common, allow us to use UA on every mob.

Third problem
Trying to make us a burst spec.
Yet another thing that has been done since legion, first through UA stacking, then through deathbolt and darkglare.
We never were and never will be a burst spec so stop trying that, in a fortified week everyone should want an affliction warlock for m+ but that is not true right now and will be the same in SL.
Malefic rupture and soul wrack (not yet implemented) are yet another try to make us burst when we dont need that.
If we want to burst we got 2 other specs, demo and destru that can do that, stop trying to make every spec have everything.
Both deathbolt and darkglare should be completly removed, shadows embrace, nightfall, haunt and drain soul should be baseline.
Nightfall procs would bring the “burst” we are missing and drain soul the execute we had from wotlk>wod.
If dots hit hard, haunt makes them hit harder and in the end we got either shadowbolt/drain soul or malefic grasp the class stays in a good place ST wise.
In aoe scenarios just buff seed of corruption explosion and the class is fixed…

fourth problem
The unprunning not being enough.
Lets face it, warlocks had it worst than every other class and we are not getting half of the things warriors are getting for example.
After this first unprunning we still:

  • Dont have a reliable slow or root (only class in the game)
  • Affliction still cant kill totems in pvp or pve
  • Only class that all spenders (shard using abilities) are casted
  • Only spec that only have one school of magic (shadow)

Fifth problem
Super squicky in pvp.
Right now affliction is non existent in pvp outside of battlegrounds.
We just die to “air”, if a breeze comes in an arena game we die.
For a spec that needs to rely on atrition to win this is rather… anti climatic.
This can be fixed, like a lot of warlocks said, by giving soul link baseline. One change that we have been asking since legion. One. We are not asking to be unkillable, we are asking to be viable in pvp…

So now ill just resume everything i would like changed in SL.

  • deathbolt removed
  • Haunt baseline, either as shard spender or as a cooldown
  • Slow or root baseline (curse of exaustion would fix this) and no, succubus is not a reliable slow
  • Dot duration increased, while i love dot gameplay i dont like to spend 70% of my globals redoting in pvp or 50% in pve (SL should be 30 secs, corruption 25 secs, agony could stay at 20 secs)
  • With dot duration increased syphon life could be baseline
  • Searing pain, fel flame or immolate could make a comeback to let us have more than one school of magic in pvp
  • UA backlash for dispell needs to be WAY higher, i would say it should be the damage of a full duration UA
  • Malefic rupture damage needs to be lower and dot damage higher
  • Malefic rupture should be a shard spender but for aoe scenarios, haunt would come handy for single target and making you choose between aoe and st
  • Seed of corruption shouldnt cost a shard untalented, if it does cost a shard then we dont need malefic rupture for aoe, just make seed explosion do a lot of damage
  • Dark soul baseline
  • Shadows embrace and nightfall baseline passives
  • Drain soul baseline, like… it has been in the game since classic blizzard
  • Soul link back as a talent (even if pvp talent)
  • Tongue tied seems that is either going to be extremly overpowered or underpowered for pvp and shouldnt be a pve talent, at most a pvp talent.
  • Where is the “draining life” part of the post you did about warlocks? cause malefic rupture does damage but doesnt heal you, you got drain life and syphon life and one of them is a talent… doesnt add up to what you said on the class change post.
  • Demonic sacrifice should return hp like in mop or just make it baseline and replace the talent with soul link, also it shouldnt do more damage than our dots in a pvp scenario…
  • Demon summons are 6 seconds in shadowlands, this change makes sense if we get fel domination back, else it makes 0 sense from a M+ or arena POV.

Im not asking for everything on the list but some are extremly easy to add without adding binds:
Dot duration, haunt, nightfall, soul link , embrace baseline and removing deathbolt and darkglare would be enough changes for the class play way better than in these last 6 years in both pve and pvp.

Bring back affliction warlocks as one of the most fun specs i’ve played, cause im looking more and more to my arms warrior…

Share your thoughts on the class and what you are liking in SL and what you would like to see added

15 Likes

I speak mostly from a PVP perspective as I honestly do not care too much about PVE and see it more as a means to an end.

Affli had a historically terrible representation in BFA PVP, in season 1 their viability was tied entirely to an azerite trait where the damage was a whole lot of nothing while you built stacks and then had a massive drain life, which was incredibly bursty and pretty unfaithful to how the spec has historically been rot.

When that trait finally got nerfed affli died with it and has never found viability at higher ratings and as a spec relied completely on your enemy having no idea what is going on.

One suggestion would be to increase viability would be to remove UA stacking which they thankfully have removed, as it resulted in you having to spam cast to make a massive setup that the enemy easily countered with a single interupt or dispell.

Another issue is having a single school, one of the reasons destro performs so well in BFA and is notoriously dominant in 2s is the fact that they can remain pumping out chaosbolts even if they get kicked on their fear.

Last but probably the biggest issue is that rot pressure is terrible in PVP as of now, with healers being tuned to deal with consistent AOE damage incredibly efficently, I don’t think a mw will even drop in mana currently from affli dots. While Tied tongues might fix this, like OP mentions it will either be completely broken or unviable, which brings the same issue as Affli in BFA season 1 where the second it gets nerfed affli will become unviable.

My suggested fix to the rot problem would not be increasing dot duration because I feel part of the skillcap of affli is being able to manage dots, but instead to increase the damage to compensate the healers, to adapt healer tuning so that you actually need to spend mana on AOE healing and not just put up renewing mist of rejuv on a target and that just instantly negates all of the warlocks damage, along with burst windows that can be dispelled instantly.
I would also not load all the damage into agony as now 3 classes can really efficently dispell agony and completely kill your ramp and make it incredibly difficult to get the damage rolling on the target as well. It effectively makes the dispell worse for an affli lock than a stun is for an arms warrior as a warrior still has rend MS and deep wounds ticking and can instantly get going out of said stun.

My prediction is that without major changes we won’t see anything but destro for yet another expansion, and if we see affli it will be for one season piggybacking off some broken talent, covernant ability or item till it gets nerfed.

1 Like

My main concern with Affliction is that it’s very slow. Personally I think it needs an ability that allows it to spread it’s dots. This will make it much easier to actually handle aoe situations instead of dotting everything and by the time you are done the first dot falls off. Though this might seem broken at first so make it so that it only deals 50% of the original damage.

This would make Darkglare a little more valuable as it can then extend the dots so that you can get some decent damage off with Malefic Rapture.

With that i also think Malefic Rapture would work better as a channeled ability instead of a shard spender. You could have Malefic have a chance to grant shards for every tick on the channel.

Though most of this could potentially be very broken. As it stand I honestly don’t think Blizz knows what they are doing when it comes to overall class design. It’s clear they don’t test their own content otherwise we wouldn’t get broken raids or potato specs.

It’s honestly not that hard to slap an ability in there and make people play around with it. Give us a ton of things to work with instead of the same old stuff so we can tell you what we like.

2 Likes

I have been playing since MOP
The only reason i’am on forums is to try and make a difference, i never was on forums before BFA, but the state of affliction warlock is so terrible it forced me to go on here, this is the best hope we have to make a difference.

Jinks i agree whit everything you said

For me the biggest issue is blizzard making us a birsty spec, we should be able to do
Strong damage over time whit dots

Darkglare sucks its impossible to pull off in pvp, in shadowlands its even worse somehow because only one UA can be casted, honestly it should be removed and replaced whit dark soul like it was in mop for example.

And also shadowbolt has always been a destro spell in the past?

Why add a destro spell to affliction? To replace “drain soul” a talent that has always been baseline fot the spec

I really dont have to say much anymore since you are right on the nose on almost everything Jinks, man if only you were the developer :frowning: for this spec.

Its terrible in bfa, and shadowlands isn’t looking great either, the developers only need to paste and copy the way it was in Mist of Pandaria or maybe legion and the majority of the problems would go away, and then i could go back to enjoy a game i loved so much again.

2 Likes

Do you think any of my ideas would solve the problem ?

1 Like

While i agree its partly skilled its hurting us more than helping and if we think about it it was changed in Legion and before that the warlock skillcap was way higher so you can have skill implemented in other things (haunt/fear/kicking etc).

100% agree, i also said that.
At the moment shadowpriests and ferals do more rot damage than we do and i dont get why.

Before Cata we had no spread for dots and the class was playing fine, dots just need to do more damage.

Darkglare just needs to be removed.
Makes no sense for affliction, make it demonology, its a demon.
Same with Deathbolt. Both are not affliction themed

Was never in the forums before Legion cause was too busy having fun with affliction.
Was on Alpha for both legion and BFA and said the class was clunky and didnt play like affliction is suposed to.

it was the main filler up till mop.
I think both can live as affliction, if SB is your filler in pve untill 35% where you swap for execute drain soul.
Like it was for 6 years.

I do want shadowbolt.
I also want nightfall and shadows embrace baseline, this would make us more bursty in m+ without having to go off affliction theme.

yes

Removed. Doesnt have a space in affliction

Curse of Exaustion should be baseline… was on the lower tree of affliction since classic.

Same as COE, baseline. but id take it as pvp talent IF instant cast.

Going on talents, and for the first time doing this:
I think the first row should be to get easier leveling but that is also endgame so i would go with something like:

  1. After killing a mob while drain souling you gain X amount of haste for X seconds
    2.Haunt refunds a shard when dispelled or the mob is killed (haunt is baseline and ST shard spender)
    3.Normal nightfall as it is but buffed to proc from diferent corruptions on targets and shadowbolt damage buffed (shadow embrace would be baseline)

25: Dot Tier
1.Writhe in Agony: Agony now deals initial tick (like shadow word pain for sp) and ramps up to 15.
2. Absolute corruption: same + % healing (like the old glyph)
3. syphon life(if not baseline) if baseline: immolate (yes another fire spell and the best part? another dot, on top of searing pain or fel flame that should comeback)

30: Survival
This needs a change
1.Demon skin - Now increases the power of your BASELINE ARMORS
2.Unending resolve old glyph (now its a passive 10% reduction, this and soul link would bring affliction to 30% reduction wich would be enough)
3.Demonic sacrifice (whatever)

35:AOE
1.Seed of corruption now costs a shard but sends 3 seeds (yes seed of corruption untalented shouldnt cost a shard)
2.Phantom as it is
3.Vile taint removed and burned in a fire. Hellfire back as a talent.

40: utility

  1. Fully agree. Shadowfury instant cast and deal damage
    2.Mortal coil doing damage too
    3.Either burning rush or the one you just added.

45: Increasing damage by “helping” spreading it
This is the hardest one since Haunt and shadow embrace are now baseline so.
1.Sacrifice, old one. Shouldnt do more damage in pvp than your actual dots.
2.Soulburn or soulswap? i dont know i would like soulburn as baseline.
3.haunt now affects two targets (kinda like Frost mages can double icelance and glacial spike

50:
I actually kinda like your ideas, all of them.
I wouldnt call it life tap but dark pact (like the mana one in the time of talent trees) something about the lore i dont know.

1 Like

I would also add on PvP wise, as affliction main for ages. Totem killing is a big issue, but also there is dk AMS which immunes all our dots on him, it has to be able to apply through the shield as well, otherwise u just chill for 10 sec until shield is gone on every cooldown.

Other problem is dots being dispelled way too easy, I would like to get back contagion tbc talent which made 30% chance to not being dispelled. Furthermore fel concentration would be handy as lock has 1 magic school with a chance of 30%-40% to avoid being interrupted kicked or any other way. As we are now facing huge melee trains such as dh ww rogue, warrior, hunter and etc with a short cd on a kick with bunch of other toolkit to prevent casting such as double stun, meld ring of peace and etc.

Imagine facing dh ww resto shaman, when are you going to cast, in like 20 minutes? Double, triple stun, 3 kicks, ring of peace, grounding. And repeat all over.

Where is Howl of terror ? the only spell which allow us to stop trains when everyone else are cc’ed this spell is Vital for affliction, you can’t cast fears as affliction.

Also affliction always was Tanky spec with a good setup of rot playstyle, it is doesnt suppose to be a hard caster, imagine boomies, sp, ele shamans would need spam casting when they got incarnation, storm keeper and etc. Why affliction is really based on a big casts?

fel armor have to be brought back to affliction to increase 20% healing taken
The only 3 min cd wall is not a solution for affliction.

As far I notice from streams, pet cast now 6 sec right? And even pet summon is on shadow tree so how the heck are you going to summon new pet in arena? Never?

If that is cool idea, why not making all dks /hunters/ shamans/ mages pet summon for 6 sec? Would be at least equal. U kill it and chill for 6 sec.

yeah that is why at least one of the dots should do the initial tick damage instantly like SWP for sp.
As dk AMS i dont agree, it has been like that since wotlk and i dont mind it. Its the least of our concerns.

Or, just make UA backlash deal FULL damage to the dispeller so they have to think if its worth it. Fel concentration never avoided you from being interrupted it reduced casts from starting from scratch when hit.

This is true, worst than that is with UH dk, where they have 2 stuns and 2 interrupts, 3 if they use grip. This is the problem with our damage being “bursty” in pvp and for some strange reason we went from “casting when needed to get some haunts” to “have to cast all the time to get damage”.
This will still be true with malefic rupture doing around 60% of our damage in shadowlands right now and of course… being a cast.

this, 100%. I dont get it either.
We are the ONLY caster in the game where our “spender” aka shards are ALL casted.
Starsurge is instant, earthshock… instant, Pyroblast… instant, Void bolt… instant.
All of them do more Single target damage burst than we do, if malefic rupture is to be kept in the game it needs to be instant.

Update
The new pvp talent applify curse is looking promising.
I ask any warlock that has access to alpha forums to post our concerns regarding hard casting in both pve and pvp.
Like i said above : We are the ONLY caster in the game where our “spender” aka shards are ALL casted.

I dont have alpha cause i havent bought shadowlands.

Another Update
Now amplify curses, a new pvp talent, apply Curse of Exaustion to the target when used on recklessness.
While i do like a slow in pvp, finally, i feel like this is not the way it should be implemented nor this should be the curse.
Why? because we will want the slow on a melee and this curse actually increases their damage.
Before you say " use port and do it", you can do this BUT melee mobility still doesnt rely, in most cases, in speed. Stuff like roll, heroic leap, fel rush are still in the game and we will never use the full benefit of it in a high rated pvp arena.

Curse of exaustion should be baseline like i mentioned above… This would also give us more utility to M+

1 Like

PvP wise; It’s not going to work. No way we are putting dots on 2 or 3 targets, then seeing them not get dispelled, then spamming the new moronic spell.

For PvE though i’d say there is hope for M+.

1 Like

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