Ah rant about ah

Community General Discussion
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LIFO rule

Seriously. This is like the worst rule ever and I can’t even imagine how unwise devs had to be to think that LIFO will fix undercutting problem.

Lifo not only doesn’t fix the problem but it encourage undercutting because if you won’t undercut you won’t see any money from it. Well, at least it’s much more harder now.

Preventing ppl from selling mats in bulk is also shot in a foot. When ppl were making walls with 1stackers of mats undercutting others, there was a way to at least make from money from it by giving better offer like stack of 20 or 200. Now you can’t do it. And even worse if you want to sell it you have to sell cheaper by UNDERCUTTING or sell it at the same price where the owner of the wall is safe because guess what… lifo protects them. Market is much more vurnable for manipulations.

Preventing ppl from undercutting by 1c is also really stupid. Because it does literally nothing. You can still undercut by about 2s. And nowadays in new expansions 2s is like 1c. It’s literally nothing. One world quest for gold gives me money for thousands of undercuts. I don’t lose anything by undercutting besides of a fee which was already there.

Let’s look at another game and learn how ah should really be made. Like in albion. I have been playin it for a while and I can easly say that ppl aren’t pressed to undercut so heavily like in wow and still you have a free will to do that. It’s so easy to make money there by only trading you don’t have to pay real money for premium.

So what’s the diffrence?

Easy answer: You can post items for more than freaking two days. You can post auctions for 30 days.

It solves so many problems.

If someone is wasting time by sitting and undercutting ppl like a mad man guess what.

You make an affordable offer for 30 days and just w8 untill it sells. You don’t have to check ah each freaking TWO DAYS. And if undercutter still wants to have a control over a market he has to be really dedicated to keep up with supply for less money. And in a meanwhile if there is a hole in his supply than your offer has a chance to be sold. And you as a seller had to click only ONE TIME instead re-enter it each TWO DAYS.

FIFO would also be very usefull. If there was a bidding war with an conclusion of minimal profit for a product you are at least safe that you will get your money when items posted before you got sold. Like in tibia ah.

Think it like as a queue into a server. You try to login into your beloved wow game and you are first one. You are super happy because you think that in a minute you will pwn noobs with you pve geared hunter in arena but guess what. You stuck there because everybody who tries to login go before you because there is LIFO rule. So to be able to enter you have to try to login again. Guess what. You can’t enter again because until there is a spot, somebody logged after you so he is first in the line and you are last. So you try it again… and again… and again… I think I don’t have to explain more how real queue should work like it is right now. right?

Moreover if item is rare there is a chance to get along with competition and sell items one after the another at the same price. Ofc still… You canovercut but there is a choice to be nice.

Please blizzard. Make Fifo, let players sell items for more that 2 days. Wow would be a happier place.

Everybody who thinks diffrently: eat my shorts.

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You don’t need to undercut. If you want to be the first to sell, you need to cancel and repost the same price. People like you still keep undercutting because they don’t understand how the system works.

If 2s is like 1c, why do you need to undercut by 1c?

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god, that is my biggest gripe with people on the ah.

just relist the damn thing for the same price and wait! :roll_eyes:

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LIFO doesn’t solve undercutting, but FIFO encourages it. That makes it a better solution for the AH

There’s basically no situation where a LIFO incentify undercutting more than FIFO.

If not selling pushes you toward undercutting then imagine if the only way to sell an item was to always be the last player on your realm to post an item by undercutting it systematically…

How so ? It’s easier to both buy and sell in bulk in the current AH

So now you’re trying to justify a bad behaviour as a way to earn money ?

That’s still doable in small markets tho (post a bunch at an artificially increased price… Then a “discounted” one at the usual price and giving the illusion of it being a good opportunity)

You don’t make any sense…

There’s not more market manipulation if your “wall of 1 offer” market manipulation is no longer doable. That and as previously mentioned, it would’ve been worse overwise.

Coppers were useless clutter, good riddance

And have your items rot on the AH for a month after a single undercut because there’s usually more supply than demand in WoW and you’d end up with tons of items dumped on the AH for a month.

Solves a lot of problems indeed. /s

Did you really think this through ?

With LIFO you could sell first if you either undercut or sell at the same price.

With FIFO you can only sell first if you undercut. There’s absolutely no other option. So why would it make sense that FIFO would be “very useful”, if people only buy the cheaper one and thus the last one posted…

That’s not how it works… That’s not how any of this works.

You can’t just write some nonsense and try to tie it to your argument, that’s ridiculous

Yeah you’ve done enough, you magnificently proved that you didn’t make any sense.

Which smh explains why you want to pick the “I can only undercut” solution instead of the “let’s keep a stable price” solution.

Yeah makes absolutely perfect sense.

Joke’s on you.

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I’m totally down for the 30 day auctions, that sound like a really good, easy to implement idea.

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Oh booooy… I knew it. Here we go…

I think you don’t even know what undercutting is. It’s kinda embarassing I have to explain it. Undercutting is making your offer first in the line. It isn’t have to do anything with a price taht much if you think about it. Try to think a reason why ppl are undercutting with 1c or 1s. Because to give a better price? That’s ridiculous. That activity you just descibed is just nothing else than undercutting with the same price but your product is in the first in queue making you come back to ah every 10 min to take care it will sell or else. That’s the reason why I am creating this stupid topic. To resolve a problem of player who has to waste time on ah to sell anything versus bots who sits there all day and manipulates market

To make your item first to sell? You know what LIFO means?
LAST IN, FIRST OUT. Go back to my analogy with logging into wow servers. It’s the same thing with the same ridiculous mechanic.
And btw I was saying there that a choice to preventing ppl undercutting by 1c is stupid because it has zero effectiveness. Somebody wasted time to program it instead use more wise better solutions.

Same thing. You want to do that all the time each 2 days? You having somekind of enjoyment by wasting your time relisting everything?

No. In LIFO where few ppl keeps posting the same product for the same price, first player is a victim and will not sell anything. He HAS TO undercut to sell something. There is no other option.
Meanwhile in FIFO when you post you see how much has to sell before you and it’s your choice if you want to set the same price knowing that after that much amount of items you WILL sell it and you don’t have to check ah to relist it wasting time.

oh yea. That’s why market in tibia and in albion feels great and here is shiet.
Same again. Go back to my analogy with logging into a server. That’s how your ah works now. Your delusional “lifo is better than fifo” means nothing without any examples and explaining.

I literally explain it in the next sentence. Why did you quote that? To make an illusion that you have more arguments? (I would like to see one)

What? No? I was saying that even when was the wall, a normal player could get around a wall. Now he CAN’T. Like you said. It’s now doable at small market because there is no getting arround that with selling it in bulks. Gosh how can you say argument who proves MY point.

So paragraph ealier you say it’s doable but now it’s not. Ok.

It was too heavy in your pocket or something? What’s the point?

OH, because now they don’t rot at all. And I wonder how it works that putting your items on ah makes more supply? Can you explain me this magic trick? We have a chance to solve some serious world wide problems here.

In FIFO you can sell at the same price dum dum. Just after player who put items first. You see 2 items? You make a decision i you want to undercut or sell it same price hoping their will sell. In Lifo when I put my offer the same price I MAKE 2 other players come back and relist it or undercut. Than it’s me, than again they etc etc… never ending waste of time.

And 2+2 isn’t 4? Ofc it is. Really. Is it really that hard to understand 4 words?
FIRST IN, FIST OUT
LAST IN, FIRST OUT
YOU ARE DUM DUM

And ofc my example is ridiculous because that’s how LIFO works! LIFO IS RIDICULOUS! I agree with that!

MAke your arguments.

I really think your words " “I can only undercut” solution" is a key here. It proves you don’t know how fifo works.

no, u.

The cow is awesome.

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im not wasting any time.

i mean, you do you. just go ahead and relist your items every hour because you got undercut by 1c lol.

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Yeah, sorry OP but you have no idea how to use the AH effectively and have come here to whine about… erm, you know what, even after reading your comments a couple of times, I’m not even sure. Constant resisting and undercutting is not the answer should be enough information for you.

I’d go into this in a bit more depth but I have a feeling you’re one of these types who just don’t listen to advice that would benefit you because “You Know Best”

I’d just be wasting my time, wouldn’t I?

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Sure thing. And you keep relisting items every 2 days for an eternity.

Are you even serious right here. So I made a topic critizising mechanic which is in big favour for undercutting and you are comming here to teach me that undercutting is bad. Invest some points in hit chance because you missed logic right there.

I love comments like “I could use some arguments but I won’t so I will just stay useless for a disscussion.”

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Yes, it is embarassing.

Oxford dictionary:
Undercut - offer goods or services at a lower price than (a competitor).

What is wrong with you? Last in, first out means that last item posted sells first if price is the same. No need to undercut by 1c.

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I don’t undercut and have no issue of selling commonly bought items on raid nights (Wed/Fri/Sun), primarily consumables… throwing them up for 12 hours.

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Fifo: people have to constantly undercut in order to get a sell.

Lifo: people have to constantly repost to get a sell.

Honestly the current system is MUCH better than the old one. No idea what server you are playing OP but I never had problem selling stuff in mine without reposting anything.

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Ok, the OP is a troll, but a really good one. 10/10

I’m out before I get forum suspension.

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My head hurts after reading the nonsense in this thread. Thanks, OP.

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I mean depends on auctions…

If you are selling Legendaries, of course you will have to undercut, but some other things like transmog is not much of need.

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edit : Misposted mid post

Usual scenario of current content item, you have a few thousands of an item currently posted at the price of 20g.

LIFO means that the last one who posted at 20g will sell. He may undercut but it serves no purpose as he’ll still sell first.

FIFO means you can only undercut as you’ll have to wait for these thousands items to be sold. No one will list an item and expect it to wait for all the others to sell first, they’ll undercut because it insures they come first.

That’s the only option available, no one in their right mind will of their own volition let every other players in their market come first if undercutting can skip that entire process.

Process you don’t have to cut with LIFO as you would already be the first auction to sell anyway

I thought Albion was all about 30d auctions and not LiFO/FIFO ?

Basic psychology : You see a few hundred items. The concurrence means that your auctions will most likely be challenged a few hours after you posted and the overwhelming offer means that the whole stock won’t ever be cleared by the demand.

LIFO means that you don’t have to undercut to have a chance to sell

FIFO means that you either wait for these hundreds to be sold first, which may take longer than your auction duration and never get undercut… Or you undercut and get to sell yours first.

It only takes one undercut for your entire FIFO scenario to fall apart. You would’ve sent your items under a pile of auctions… Which will promptly be ignored after the first undercut, and be left to rot unless the market correct itself.

But you wouldn’t be here complaining about undercuts if the markets did correct itself after an undercur right ?

You didn’t. Selling in stacks of 200 for small profits is not nearly as easily selling in bulk as writing “5000” and pressing send auction.

You’re not complaining about selling/buying in bulk but rather that your little “buy cheap isolated stacks & sell stacks of 200” no longer exist… Which is kinda ridiculous as you can pretty much still do that regardless of the auction size, especially with ores and elemental mats

Feels like there’s a misunderstanding here.

My point is that 1/ walls are bad behaviour praying on casual sellers to sell their items at the wall’s price with an automated auctioneer add-on

2/ a massive pain for any buyer/seller

3/ causes massive AH lags

Now a player do not have to get around a wall because they don’t exist. 1000 auctions of 1 item only amount to an extra cheap auction that people will most likely buy without skipping a beat.

Which coincidentally is a good exemple of buying in bulk but not in the way you meant it.

The wall part is no longer a thing.

Giving the illusion of one of your auction being an offer & artificially increasing the price of a market is nothing new, was done before & is now somewhat usable in small markets with expensive mats.

So yeah we’re down 1 market manipulation at the very least

Serves no actual purpose beyond your 5 first levels. If that means saving some data to prevent the aH lags we had in 8.0 then I’m all for it.

They rot for 2 days, which is better than a month in a FIFO because you’ve been undercut while waiting for the other auctions to sell.

Because what you see on the AH is usually only the tip of the iceberg ? List all your stocks and you’ll be undercut because your massive auction somehow intimidates other sellers.

Only list a few hundreds at a time and smh you sell them must faster.

Bruh I could make a better analogy with fishing on the top of my head and it would make more sense.

The incentives in logging in are to play the game no matter who comes first, the incentives in the AH are to sell and the most efficient way in a LIFO is to undercut. So why bother wasting your time and let someone undercut you when you could do that and actually sell something ?

At least in FIFO you are less incentified by undercut than you are by being the last to relist your auctions. Which makes it optional rather than basically mandatory if you want to sell.

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I don’t agree about undercutting since it’s not necessary ,but yeah some sort of cd should be implemented because it’s almost impossible to sell anything due to AH campers constantly reposting with addons i assume.

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Just relist for the same price and you are first in line again. Undercutting is 100% useless now.

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^^ This

If you undercut, unless you are in quick to sell you are essentially making your item(s) the last listing in that price bracket. The current system discourages undercutting compared to the old system where undercutting was more beneficial.

Personally I far prefer the new version, it’s no longer slowed by listings of 1, I can sell and buy in bulk, I no longer have to use an addon to scan through all the listings to be able to see what is the best price.

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Honestly best AH I’ve ever seen was in mobile TCG, you could post either currency or items with buyout option.

Say you want T3 base legendary, you post X gold with request for this base legendary or vice versa.

It also had auctions where people could offer both currency and other items in exchange and seller could either refuse or accept them.