Can you explain e the old school social experience?
???
The only evidence I know is some bad behavior due to cross realm. You can do the same things in beta now, you know.
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Wow playerbase have massive problem which is ‘‘imaginative socialization’’
Lets all be friends,friendly and chat all the time.
Nope,this is not fairytale,this is reality.
Socialization wasnt even a thing back in vanilla/tbc especially now in 2022.
People dont even bother saying ‘‘hello’’ when they join a group.
You can take example from m+ : Its actual premade,people have to fly to stone and summon others and all…In 9 out of 10 groups i join,no one says a damn thing except ‘‘skip or not’’
This will be the case with WOTLK as well.
People are delusional if they think you can chat with people,become the bestest friends ever or even go to tank’s wedding…
You need to get a grip honestly.
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It’s just because those people mostly run with guild and friends. If everybody knows each other there of course will be banter in the group. Especially if everybody is in discord while running a dungeon.
It’s a misconception of them to believe, that PUGs are the same.
But I’ve explained this multiple times in a lot of threads already. The problem is about half if the people argumenting against the RDF are just trolls. And the other half has some personal grudge against the RDF, and you will never be able to convince them, because they just refuse to see the positive sides of the RDF and won’t let go of their negative arguments, even though they’ve been debunked many many times already.
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This 
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The thing is, they will blame RDF for it either way. If RDF is introduced, they blame the tool for any negative encounter they will have in the future, because right now they think everything is fine. If RDF doesnt get introduced, its the retails RDFs fault, because the tool corrupted the whole wow playerbase over the years and this alone caused players to change.
While the first argument is weak, the second argument is even worse, because if it really corrupted the player base over the years, it would have full effect on the player base right now and adding or not adding the tool shouldnt have further effects.
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Exactly. And this is called confirmation bias. If somebody has the mindest that the RDF is bad, their brain will only allow them to see, what confirms that theory. Everything they see, that opposes that theory will be just dismissed as an exception.
So they could run 100 dungeons smoothly with the RDF and it all will be just exceptions to them. But the one dungeon they run, where a player is toxic will make them scream on every board, how they foretold, that the RDF would cause toxic behaviour.
The confirmation bias is also a big factor, why I won’t accept arguments about 12 years in the past. Aside from the obvious chages in the player base and general society and internet culture, there is no way of proving today, how it really was back then.
The anti-RDF people say RDF dungeons were a toxic hell. I can’t even recall a single toxic player I’ve had in an RDF dungeon. But those memories are both not perfect and many effects like the confirmation bias for example make them unreliable.
The RDF dungeons in the past could have been really toxic and I just forgot or I didn’t notice, because I enjoyed doing dungeons even though they were toxic. Or the dungeons weren’t any more toxic than before the RDF, but the people, that didn’t like the RDF just started to notice toxic players they didn’t notice before. Because now they were important to prove the theory they’ve made on their mind.
Nobody can tell how it really was back then.
I don’t think this would happen. They would go on just ignoring toxic players as they do now. Because there is no RDF, toxic players are just an exception to them.
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My experience was, nobody bothered me when i noob tank a pug raid and dies 3 time in row. I got my sprout status and everybody knew i was new and there are mentors i can contact when have problem. So no shouting yeling or toxic behavior.
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I guess you are talking about FF XIV right? The community in FF XIV is maybe the nicest I’ve ever seen in an MMORPG.
I once pooled for a hard raid, without realizing it. With me there were a few other new players in the group and a few senior players. The first try we miserably failed, because most of us didn’t know the tactic. So one of the senior players told us how to do the boss and we kept trying and got better and better. We unfortunately couldn’t beat the boss within the time limit, but we made good progress and brought him at least down to below 25%.
Nobody insulted another player or just left. Everybody just had patience with us noobs and tried to help us to learn and beat the encounter.
There were more experiences like this, but this was the one, that stood out the most for me. Because I couldn’t picture this happening in WoW without at least 1 player just leaving or insulting us, why we pooled for a hard raid without knowing the tactics.
Obviously it can’t be automatic match making, that turns people into scumbags. There must be something different.
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If you play on a small realm, you have a reason yourself to do so. But server that have a activ raiding community will have enough players that want to put together a 5 ppl group to cueue for RDF.
I think it’s gonna be fine. Wow seems to be in a transition now to swap their target audience from old wannabe esports players to a wider audience, since Shadowlands has failed so hard.
If they make a raid tier like Sepulcher again, I’m gonna uninstall, and never return. There are other games to play. Wow is also extremely expensive for very low value atm, and it’s also extemely monetized and pay2win/skip
The title of this thread is wrong. It’s not the anti-RDF arguments that are outdated. You have simply moved the goalposts and argue for a modern custom RDF and then you call arguments against the actual wotlk RDF outdated.
No one have anything against an automated group finder that creates groups and give a mission to clear a specific dungeon with a special reward.
What makes RDF into an anti social toxic hellhole is cross realm, the buff for playing with random players and the teleportation to the dungeon.
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Thank you. Can you know stop feeding this loop ?
Update the title and original thread then?
The “legends” are all 100% factually correct on the topic of the wotlk RDF. On the topic of something different those “legends” doesn’t apply and it’s really pointless to debunk concerns that doesn’t even match what you are talking about.
There are RDF and the there are not-RDF. This threads topis is not for RDF.
Do you even understand fully that no one are against a random dungeon finder and automated group matcher? People are against RDF in the context of RDF from wotlk.
Even among the stuff I’ve been reading in these threads this is probably the weirdest post of all.
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People are against the RDF tool from Wotlk. That’s RDF in this context. RDF is the name of an historical system.
But it is now clear that no one is asking for RDF. They are asking for a new custom system but they don’t say that. They lobby for one system and debunks concerns for another unrelated system.
When we say RDF we use that as a name for one specific system. It’s a name of a specific system with specific features.
People should stop using the NAME RDF and instead make a new name. For example Classic-RDF that is different from RDF.
There is just one RDF. People just have different opinions about the different features of the RDF.
Some dislike the auto match making, some dislike cross realm and some dislike teleportation.
But those arguments against those features have been debunked over and over again.
There aren’t 2 different RDF. Maybe you mixing something up with the LFG-Tool. That’s the new tool Blizzard wants to implement, which solves exactly 0 of the existing problems but adds some of it’s own.
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He’s just stubborn, don’t feed him, he’s the only one to think like that.
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Are you telling me that you have seen someone that don’t think it’s a good idea to have a tool in game that match players with each other for dungeons?
Correct, there is one RDF and that is what people are actually against and not this hypothetically custom RDF that they actually ask for that have never existed in this game.
I am all for that if they would ever implement it. It’s only the cross realm and teleport and buff that turns it into a toxic hell hole.
I have never seen anyone who are against a good group finder, automated or otherwise, as long as it doesn’t destroys the social dynamics for dungeons.
Ok so I ask you then.
Have anyone ever said that they are against an automated group-finder for random dungeons that doesn’t teleport players to the dungeon and are cross realm? Because you are trying to debunk something that no one is arguing.
People are specifically against THE - RDF, from Wotlk. Not your hypothetical custom group-finder.
Why do you asume i wanted Classic ERA? I leveled to 60 and then quit, i came back for TBC because i enjoyed TBC and Wrath. Vanilla was never gona keep me interested as there is too little to do outside of raids except farming for flasks. Besides they changed Classic way too much for my liking. On level 40 i had more HP and +SP than i had in T2 in vanilla.