As i said on where i don’t remember, on the “last” private server Wotlk today we are already a random players with 10k players. So, what’s the problem ? Removing RDF doesn’t change the fact we are all random on a server like Firemaw and if mega server exists, it’s for a reason, because some players (many apparently) doesn’t care about a small server with identity.
I played on a old pserver without cross ofc with 1 players which mean 500 alliance 500 horde, i know well what is identity on a serv.
Can you explain to another way please because as i’m not native english even with the traduction i don’t understand your point.
Yes and for me the priority is to provide the game of who real like the game, who is passing the most of his time on this game than another.
Wotlk is for pro Wotlk players as Classic was for Classic players, let me remember you that Classic ERA is empty now and i don’t see many people to ask and cry for a TBC ERA.
I don’t understand what you are trying to say here. But if you are talking about… i don’t know the lore for example, just read the quests. I read all quest of the game from Classic until Cataclysm, twice or more depend of quests.
I don’t understand the link to RDF, if you read the quest you now why you are in the dungeon.
Exactly, i’ll don’t let casual players that left the game 12 years ago to ruin my and our experience. Even more while we waited it 4 years after the annoucement of Classic.
As Classic was a priority for Vanilla players (even pserver, nostalrius like), Wotlk should be a priority for Wotlk players.
That’s the point, i can, you can’t but it’s hard to accept it.
Wrong, you are doing it for the Vanilla community’s experience.
You should really make a new thread because this thread is not about RDF. The form of custom group finder and random dungeon bonus you actually ask for is very uncontroversial and something most, if not all, will stand behind.
I don’t make this thread to specificaly saying put the RDF, i made this thread to stop some legends.
Like “Flying mounts killed the wpvp” while there is mega server with mono faction that prove who killed the wpvp is the player. But i don’t know to debate of this point to not pollute the topic.
What would you call an automated tool to Find group members for Random Dungeons? Its a play on words, nothing more nothing less. This even proves my point that many players against any form of RDF are against it for symbolic reasons and adding the same tool under a different name wouldnt be as bad from their perspective. The main reason people are talking about RDF as it was back in wotlk, because we will be playing wotlk and features define every expansion. It would only be natural to add RDF. if we went for #nochages, we would have it either way. You yourself call the retail RDF simply RDF too, although its vastly different from the wotlk version. So still calling an altered wotlk version of RDF by its original name would only make sense. Renaming it would only have the purpose that vanilla fans can say they removed the RDF, while its actually there.
Ehhh no? I played in an actual world pvp guild in classic and it is in fact mainly the the flying but also sharding and summoning outside the terrain that ruins world pvp.
Players will always choose the path of least resistance (that’s the objective of the game) and it’s up to the developers to make systems that can’t so easily be cheated.
Players don’t cause monoservers. A broken server transfer system causes monoservers. I mean Firemaw literally became monofaction over night due to a literally broken system that was not intended.
All the servers was reasonable balanced in classic by the way. Same players different system.
Private servers are infamous for not tracking their active players properly, and I can’t understand what point you’re trying to make. And your numbers are never consistent, 6k first, then 8k, now 10k. And that is still 50% smaller of JUST the alliance on Firemaw. It’s still not comparable.
No problem, you’re already doing well to debate in your second language.
I’ll give one quick example because its 6am and I still haven’t slept. This is just one of many possible examples, but since you don’t understand I will use one example.
One of the toxic behaviours seen in RDF is when new players don’t properly understand a dungeon and make a mistake they often get insulted and then people leave. It’s a terrible experience for new players.
But playing on a private server, on which the majority of players have been playing the same content for 5+ years or have had significant previous experience of it, they aren’t going to make those same mistakes new players will make, and so won’t make those same mistakes, this is even less likely once the tuning of private servers is taken into account (its rarely close to accurate) and people often massively outgear the content anyway.
Classic is empty because the community that liked classic weren’t there just to play vanilla. It’s not an individual expansion that the community likes but WoW when it still had its core values in mind during development. There is a general consensus that after Cata the design philosophy changed for the worse. So people that like classic like Vanilla + TBC + Wotlk.
This game doesn’t belong to just you and the private server people. It belongs to the entire community. And of the entire community that will play wotlk, the private server people will be a vast minority.
So if you want to play with RDF then stay on your private server. The rest of the community want to play the game as it was in the beginning.
You clearly weren’t on the forums then. I stopped browsing here because “When is TBC” posts were flooding this place.
World building and visual storytelling is an important part of building up a game, especially so in an MMORPG because its storytelling capabilities are limited by the game structure.
This makes going to the dungeon an important experience as it builds up a feel for the world: Mounting up, flying out over the peaceful Crystalsong Forest to see the dark mountains ahead. Noticing how the sky turns dark, and suddenly you can see the skeletal figures of undead blue drakes patrolling the skies. Beneath you is an army of undead, scavenging the land for any sign of the living. Dark necromancers raising the dead in their dark rebirth, stitched abominations shambling across the frozen wastes. The cold and terrifying spires of the Icecrown Citadel coming into view, with the crusade desperate fighting below, facing off hordes of undead to grasp their tiny foothold in this monument to death…
This worldbuilding is something you take for granted after playing it for so long. But its part of why you like wotlk so much whether you realise it or not. After ten years you won’t care so much, but for those that haven’t played this since 2008, or those that haven;'t played at all, this is a vital part of building that love for the game. Your RDF proposal would rob those players of that. You would steal away their chance to love the game the way you do, and that isn’t fair on them.
And that’s exactly why you SHOULDN’T have any say in what happens. If you want the RDF go back to your private server. Don’t ruin the experience for people that have been waiting 14 years for this.
No you can’t, because you don’t care about what is best for the majority. You are only thinking about what is best for you.
Wrong, wotlk was my favourite expansion, and it’s the only one I had an interest in playing when classic was released. But RDF wasn’t included for the majority of the expansion, and I am of the firm opinion it was one of the most negative things to be added to the game, and the argument supporting that is stronger than the argument against it.
Exactly, because you’ve played it for ten years you are going to alt+tab. The VAST majority of the community haven’t played it since 2008 or haven’t played it at all. They won’t be alt+tabbing. That’s just you private server minority. So if you want RDF, stay on your private servers and don’t ruin it for us.
Looking at the low level content, what does not having RDF accomplish right now? Right, most players doing dungeons are going for boosts. Especially pre 60 dungeons normal dungeon groups are rare. Why is that the case? You can ask any leveling player. The group finding process takes too long the travel to the destination and back is considered too long. No RDF means far less dungeons being played. For many max level character the reasons are similar. The group finding process for dungeons with a new character too time consuming, especially for unwanted dps specs.
Saying these people, which are a huge part of the playerbase, have a weaker argument for RDF compared to you, because you remember having a bad time in a dungeon back in the day and that it was while using the RDF, doesnt help these players with the situation. While you think you are doing them good, its actually the opposite. Just wanted to let you know.
Yes but largely close to get problem of performance in Dalaran, seriously, this is insane how many people there is in the server.
Of course they are never consistent because we were talking about 2 diferent things.
I compared a pserver that had RDF with 8k players against another pserv without RDF which had 6k.
And for the point of cross-serv i said you that i played on a serv with 10k players to explain to you that we are already random players on it because the limited is already exceeded, so i don’t care about Firemaw because it’s the same, i’m a random on my 10k serv as you are a random with your 25k serv. The problem is already here, cross or no cross.
Thank you.
Hm ok but i don’t understand the link with RDF.
Without RDF it can happens the same, a new players can do a misstake, getting insulted and then leave the dg or the game.
I’m sorry but when Blizzard announced Classic he see many people like “yeah finaly our Vanilla, never again bad private server”
I’m sorry again but when some people tried to change the game before Classic released i see many people like “Don’t touch the game it’s not for the retail community it’s for us, if you want this feature then go retail” while some community was TBC/Wotlk community and asking for features from these expansion lol.
That’s a excellent good point, it’s exactly what i said in 2019.
“If you want Vanilla, stay on private server and let us to get the change to have a good WoW 2.0 because nobody on pserv can do that”
Well, they just pissed me off, so i don’t know why this time i don’t have to do the same thing… … BUT
No they don’t want, they just want the game without RDF, it’s totaly diferent.
Provide me a WoW 3.0.9 if you want, i’m okay with that, without RDF, even with a boring 3sc mount casting, but a real 3.0.9.
“When TBC ?” I don’t talk about asking for TBC, i talk about getting TBC ERA".
It’s so cute, you’re right, i’m serious, i know what you are talking about because i already get this feeling but in 2022 not for a pro-Wotlk. Rework Norfendre, give me the graphics of Dragonflight with high texture resolution, bigger zone and i’m okay with a new immersion experience, but the reality is =>
“LF last tank for” or answering like “Hi +1” and “Hi all”
Going to fly auto => afk 5min => “buff please” => 15min after “Ty all”
That’s the reality for many people, and the sad thing ? That’s not an exaggeration and it’s even the case for TBC (less because the community is still a bit Vanilla-like and TBC is not well well know as Wotlk).
14 years for this ? Dude all real Wotlk players played on pserv, don’t think they all waited for an official wotlk server that’s not true.
And again =>
That’s a excellent good point, it’s exactly what i said in 2019.
“If you want Vanilla, stay on private server and let us to get the change to have a good WoW 2.0 because nobody on pserv can do that”
Well, they just pissed me off, so i don’t know why this time i don’t have to do the same thing
Oh yes i can, you know why ? Because you think you do but you don’t.
You think no RDF is the best for the community, i explained on my first post why it’s not in 2022.
And Vanilla players here are not the majority. The majority want the RDF.
Wrong, because every argument i read i could counter it on my first post, because my counter argument explain to reality in 2022 why yours just explain the old stuck memories.
And the thing is, i don’t really care about the RDF personaly, why ? Because it doesn’t really affect me, yes it will be boring to make a group and boring to wait for the fly yes, but that’s it, but as it’s not really affect me, then there is also no reason to put it day one, because the reverse is also true, it doesn’t affect me and will doesn’t affect you for the legends that you all trying to explain based on your old memories and me trying to explain why this is not anymore true in 2022.
But you, you and all get traumatised by it and that’s why you can’t argument correctly about it.
You : Old stuck memories + outdated experience + feelings about the past
How can you think you can argumente ?
I can argumente and defend RDF but you can’t, literraly. Your emotions blind you while i see the currently fact and explain the logic reality today in 2022.
You will after 1 months farming all heroics dg day after day. As many players today doesn’t care about what you are talking about and afk in the dg to get boosted.
Remember when the old community was hyped for Classic, many players never never played on it and what happened ? GDKP, boost, meta group, golds problem, bots, min max, and so on. I rarely read and hear the return to the immersion the RPG etc etc.
Some people like you also waited for it, with RDF.
Why don’t you all just stop feeding these trolls? There honestly is no point what so ever to try and have a discussion with people that as soon as they run out of counter-arguments revert to calling people for things like “strawman” or “hypocrit” or what ever else insults they come up with.
They just don’t get the most important part of this whole discussion:
The entire human online behavior has changed compared to what it was back then.
Both ingame and out of the game. On any online platform that involves “socializing”. Be it ingame WoW, Facebook, Twitter, Any online forum or what not. The growth and easier access to these kind of things and internet as a whole is in fact what caused this human online behavior to change to begin with.
But they just can’t see and/or counter that. So they have nothing valid to come up with.
Might as well just stop feeding the trolls.
I think that’s about it. And I further think that this guy is one of the older guys under a new name. Just discussing to discuss and wanting to have the last word come hell or high water.
When people talk about the RDF the cross-server aspect is automatically assumed. Saying “cross-server dungeon finder” is redundant. Many of the main benefits of the Dungeon Finder is due to the cross-server aspect.
No cross-server Dungeon Finder on a mega server? Might function in a similar manner to the Dungeon Finder in retail. No cross-server Dungeon Finder on a smaller server? Won’t be very helpful. Thinking about it this way, a Dungeon Finder without cross-server problems may just further exacerbate the problems of people fleeing to the mega-servers.
At least we have gotten to a point in the discussion where many seem to agree that the cross-server aspect is detrimental to the social qualities of the game, be it server communities (a concept still disputed by many) or just the fact that in the WLK version of the Dungeon Finder you could not team up with players from other servers, meaning that if you do befriend someone… tough luck.
I’ve never read a better argument for the exclusion of the Dungeon Finder. You are not wrong – how we interact in online environments has changed. Has it been a good change? In some respects, yes. In others, no.
MMORPGs existed before our current definition of social media. MMORPGs were social platforms before Facebook and Twitter. And I think you can make the argument that MMORPGs were healthier social platforms. I’ve been playing MMOs since 2003 myself.
Classic has not been perfect. But I’ve had a very successful “old school” social experience regardless. Can I still have it with the inclusion of RDF? Maybe. But we have evidence of the harm RDF did and you can’t dismiss it as “old memories”. We have the data. Evidence exists. Reimplementing the RDF (as it was) will screw over people like myself.
You can easily feed socializing for the RDF if you make the rewards (bonus xp / badges) being only available for same server 5 ppl premade groups. Everyone will want to premake the group to make sure, you get the bonuses.
do the same with the achievments for the former RDF Achievments and here you have classic community version of RDF…
Edit: But why would blizzard do something easy with their own features, when they can just copy a bad tbc addon which still feeds boosting culture…
newsflash
final fantasy 14 have RDF LFR and all that and still have much better comunity.
RDF is not a problem. problem is blizzard doing nothing. No GM no moderation. wow is just rotting corpse
That was not my experience when I tried that game. I had heard that they had a very newb-friendly community, but the few instances I ran had the same inpatient, rush-minded individuals that I’ve gotten used to in retail. It was a particularly bad experience because you kept getting tutorial pop-ups and you had no chance to read them if you also wanted to keep up with the rest of the group.
Similarly, no one was really social. Few even responded to “hi”. And yes I did mention it was my first time playing, didn’t really change a thing. So how do you make connections “organically” in such an environment? There’s no need to talk about the content, at least not around level 20-30 (I lost interest). Maybe it gets better at max level, I can’t say.