You’re not a role player so I don’t expect you to understand how RDF impacted the RP aspect of the game and I’m not even going to try and explain it to you.
As for RDF not impacting on gameplay, the fact that we got insta teleported to instances took away a large part of the game play in so far as travelling to the instance was part of the game and in some cases was a real achievement in itself. A horde toon having SW Stockades or an Alliance toon having RFC showing in their achievements showed that they’ve put some effort into getting there and was a genuine achievement.
I’m also looking at the big picture with a certain amount of sarcasm thrown in. Not my issue that you can’t recognize that.
My response regarding the decline of the social aspect of the game is based on personal experience on several toons spread over a variety of different server types.
Of course all the lazy players that want things easy will argue against anything that’s counter to their argument that RDF was a 100% good thing mostly because they’re not up to the challenge of actually plying the game as originally designed.
Thanks for assuming I cannot understand your argument, even if you explained it.
With this reasoning you should be against meeting stones with summon function too, or flight paths and portals in general. Btw. I havent seen even one group of leveling horde players traveling to stockades during tbc, but maybe thats different on roleplay servers, because players have a different mindset there.
If you were explaining reasonable arguments too, I wouldnt be so skeptical.
You criticize someone for stating opinions and not facts, while doing the exact same thing.
How is signing up in the new beta LFG-tool and waiting for an invite and after that for a summon any more effort than signing up in RDF? Its the same, its just less convenient and players with low gear get faced with gatekeeping. Even those “traveling” to the dungeon at max level fly there without having to press a button for 2-3 minutes. If that is the challenge you are afraid to lose, you should focus on other challenges.
Previous comments you made and questions ask show that you don’t understand the argument, so it’s not assumption.
You’re making the same type of ‘far fetched things’ comment here that you accused me of earlier.
O’m sure there are lots of things you haven’t seen in TBC, doesn’t meant they don’t exist or don’t happen.
My personal experience is NOT opinion, it’s hard fact.
As for your last comment, WoW didn’t have any properly working group finder or flying when the game was launched. I did say ‘as originally designed’ or did you miss that part.
Irrespective of what anyone post here on these forums the devs will do what they want. I doubt they even read the EU forums.
You dont know what an assumption is, so I cant blame you here.
I think having a “totally OP char with max achievement points and reps with a zillion gold and BiS gear by making a few mouse clicks” is a bit more farfetched than my example about how teleporting to dungeons is comparable with other automated teleporting/traveling in the game. But if you think its the same type, I will accept it.
You are correct that I havent seen all unlikely things myself, like players doing a dungeon and becoming an irl couple later. While these stories sound great and wholesome, the game shouldnt be designed for situations that are that rare, if it negatively influences the experience of a huge part of the playerbase.
Of course its a fact, but its an subjective fact. If someone has the opinion that deathknights are toxic and unhealthy for the game and should be removed, its a fact he has the opinion, but doesnt make it an objective fact that legitimizes to exclude deathknights. Its the same for all your arguments. Its a fact you think its right, but it doesnt mean its objectively right.
If you want to play vanilla design and vanilla design only and dont like any features that differ from its original design, you should play vanilla. We already have vanilla available and as far as I am informed, Blizzard announced a classic series, not vanilla+. Now its time to have an original wotlk experience too, since vanilla fans can already relive their experience and have vanilla available.
I am in favor of freezing people’s skill and experiences and then having RDF.
Bit of a dream.
The reality is, in RDF you have no control over your teammates.
Currently, it’s a fine thing. I only remember ditching one person and rejecting two over the course of the expansion so far, make it three months of dungeoneering, still fine.
With RDF, you could not have my 57 druid in Ramps doing just fine, however you can have all the communal gear people, ninja looters, and such, on top of the fact that sometimes compositions can get weird. Which then leads to the drama, resulting in content nerfs, resolve buff, personal loot, and an increased use of the reporting system, and plenty of lawsuits about unjust suspensions and refunds. And raid geared folks breezing through dungeons being upset about the newbie, or upset about not having one.
The nightmare.
The current LFG actually works quite well, at least for Mirage Raceway alliance.
Low level content lacking population is something else, though.
I hardly had bad experiences in RDF so I guess reality is closer to a dream than the nightmare, then again, my gaming skill is about halfway on the scale, so my horse is lower while my arms can still carry enough (bad team = hard mode, so what), at least in WoW.
This is not, as in the real life, the experience is important, more than “imaginary theory” more than “outdated practical”
That’s exactly what i said just before.
You speak in the past, so your argument are all outdated while mine is based on the currently practice reality on TBC Classic AND Wotlk pserv, you can’t be more explicit.
Are you talking about these Classic purist extremist players that wanted CLASSIC ERA for ever and then they finaly moved to TBC, appropriated this game and then they again try to they appropriate Wotlk to transform it in Vanilla-like ?
I’m not a role player too, but i’m not a raid loger also.
I play every part of the game, doing all HF’s, like speaking in the /world (ofc now i can’t because it’s spammed of announcement and everyone insulting me when i try to talk), i like animation, create old group content etc.
It’s not because someone ask for RDF that he’s an anti-social.
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Read my post please.
interesting so your old outdated 2010 experience is a currently fact but my 12 years Wotlk experience and Classic/TBC Classic experience is just my opinion. Yes interesting interesting
Stop making stupid stupid assumptions about me and twisting what I’ve said to suit your argument
That and all the straw man arguments you’ve thrown out are a classic sign of someone who knows deep down that they’ve lost the argument but are too pig headed and immature to accept it.
I stated a FACT (a real objective non opinion based fact) about the original game. Where do you get the idea that’s what I wanted to play. Yet another incorrect assumption from someone that’s made a boat load of them in this thread alone.
Pointless even discussing anyone that just spews out ream of verbage and displays a hostile attitude to someone just because they have a different viewpoint of the game as they do
If you advocate for RDF then you don’t want to play an MMORPG.
You just want to play an instanced game and good news, you have retail with all those systems. In fact, retail has so many anti-mmorpg systems that I wouldn’t even consider retail an MMORPG. It’s a queue instance game.
If you tell people that the game they enjoy is bad then you should be ready that people bite back. And seeing how you talk about how the game would be without RDF in wrath it looks to me like you are the type of person that would say those kinds of things. Might also be one of the reasons why you want RDF so badly people are avoiding you for something you ether said or did.
You didn’t want to waste your time responding but you did anyway. ok.
RDF was part of WOTLK, but we’re in classic where it’s supposed to be a return of the MMORPG experience. RDF was arguably one of the systems implemented that brought WoW in the wrong direction.
Make the world great again, not the instant teleportations to instances.
No, me and other people were starting talking about the news about the bêta of Wotlk, and then they insulted us.
If you want to make you a reason to get right, an imaginary reason about myself, this is not the good way.
You are 100% wrong but you already know that.
I could answer to you with each point yes. So, read my post before go in the topic and spit your venom.
Yes and if you read my post, i explain why RDF will change nothing.
Bad faith. You go in without read my post, telling something is just bad with judgments on other peoples.
Ok, and currently TBC Classic got a awesome MMORPG community of course.
I can add something like, if you want a hard MMORPG community, go on a RP servers.
Depending on which server you play yes. Mega servers do not represent proper MMORPG community. And that’s on blizzard for their lack of action against bots and gold sellers, etc.
I already play on an RPPvP server with an awesome community. However, blizzard has decided to remove our server after destroying it’s population with free transfers, instead of opening free transfers to our server.
Yes, and you come in, explaning you don’t like something while i can counter argument you instant. If you read my post you just couldn’t said firstly that the TP is bad for some reason, because i explained why is not.
And at the end your argument is just “MMORPG” because you have nothing REAL and PRACTICE to explain as argument.
Good news, i play on a server with 6k players, so 3.5k average on my side, so this is not a mega server, and the community has NOTHING to do with the past. Even worse, the TBC Classic community has NOTHING to do with my first time with RDF on Wotlk 12 years before. Wotlk 12 years ago even with RDF was BETTER that we have now on TBC Classic with no RDF and on a game more RPG Vanilla like.
Why ? Because there is no exploration, discover anymore, we all know the game as we made it.
I’m sad for you to hear that and it’s not normal.
If you don’t want RDF, go Classic ERA, it’s the MMORPG that you want, because Wotlk is more arcade than RPG. Wotlk is not a game for you apparently
The funny thing is, I wrote a non-binary reply in favor of LFD, listing pros and concerns, and he replied without kind
That’s a recurring exchange: those joining RDF abandon the channels, lowering the pool, and eventually just a small minority keeps trying manual runs. But even they learn it’s best to exploit the teleport, etc. Most importantly, tanks get instant queue pop.
Practically, just look at retail. Do (many) people run manual dungeons still?
Could be labeled outdated I guess, but that’s what happened in our guild in 2010. People by then would do their daily heroic etc., there were a few people asking around and parties of 2-3 joining the tool, but ultimately we became a pure hardcore raiding guild. No need to wait for guildies, instance gratification was just a button away. Consequently, collecting your badges each and every day was expected.
Still, I’m fairly sure that people will again look for the path with the least resistance, myself included. And the only reason for me to play WoW specifically is instancing. And I hate spamming.
The problem is, that I cannot find many objective facts in any of your posts this thread. I just read them all. You mention a “social decline”, which I agree took place, but you dont elaborate on the impact of the RDF, you just blame the tool. Then you mention the impact on RP, without any explanation, besides the teleport, which is a minor aspect of the RDF and applies to wotlk battlegrounds too.
Your prove for your claims is this alone:
Its indeed pointless to discuss anymore with your, since you cant differentiate between facts and opinions. Maybe you do have “hard facts”, but you havent mentioned them yet, besides the influence of feeling of accomplishment, if players miss the travel to the dungeon, which also happens if they get summoned by their group members.
RDF was only one change. With your reasoning, everything thats not vanilla should be removed, since it harms the MMORPG experience. ANY instanced content, like dungeons, raids or battleground detach the players from the world since vanilla. Flying mounts and additional flight paths harm the interactions. Same with guild banks, summoning stones, layering/phasing, class design, new continents, dual spec, heirlooms and so on. And RDF is not simply gone, its just replaced with a similar, but less efficient tool, that gives the same experience for most players as RDF.
You can say RDF was at fault, but as you said its one of the (many) systems that changed wow. If you were to remove them all, you would end up with a vanilla classic world that you personally chose to not play over tbc/wotlk, even as a vanilla fan.
