I want you to explain this to me please.
People do not want to “add” it. They want to change their mind removing it. And yes. It is very beneficial. For matchmaking.
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It’s definitely something wrong with the server and the community in general. Still this needs to be addressed.
Just because you are not affected by a problem doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and doesn’t need to be solved. And you have no clue how many people are affected by it. You said yourself, that you ran with your guild and friends. You have no clue how it is to build a random group for a dungeon.
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Care to explain the anti-social with RDF? Cannot see a connection. Also, obviously RDF is not for you since as you say you wouldn’t use it. So you may as well not take part of the conversation for a feature you are not interested in.
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I’ve read all posts from all threads on this subjects. A very very small minority even mentioned cross-realm. All the rest said they do not care about the cross-realm. How do you “think” that this is what people want?
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None of them would use it. None of them really runs random dungeons. They are just self entitled to fight an “evil” that wouldn’t even concern them. It’s just a witch hunt.
All the threads about the RDF show exactly what’s wrong with the Classic community. It’s funny how especially the people, that are self entitled to fight for the social aspect, are the ones, that are the most anti-social in these threads.
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I mostly run with friends and guildies yes, dosnt mean I dont run random groups from time to time, but I do tend to try to not run with completely random groups seeing as I do value my sanity (and that have nothing about how much time it takes to form them but with some bad experiences that make me wish that the servers were actually dead even though those ofc are rare as well.) Just because you are affected by a problem doesnt mean that a solution should be provided that make problems for other people.
This is what I cannot get. What problem would it cause to YOU?
Also, there are people much more social than you. People who do not want to only hang out with guildies and friends like you but with strangers as well. I always try to talk to strangers in instances (esp if it is easy) about their country, the weather there or if an event happened. The other night all party was talking with a Russian in the run. About the war etc. And I was so glad noone tried to offend the guy. Now this is what I call social man. A party with strangers. And RDF provides this much much easier than trying to form a party with any other way.
This is what I want.
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Oh so you’ve had a few runs, where you added 2 randoms. This of course chages everything and makes you an expert on random dungeons…
No it does not. You don’t know anything about what we discussed here, because you’ve never experienced it.
So obviously cross realm isn’t needed to make bad experiences in dungeons. Finally you’ve came to the conclusion yourself. To bad in the next post you will already pretend this conclusion never happened.
And no the RDF doesn’t cause problems for you! It won’t make your guild and friends go away. You didn’t run randoms in the past and you won’t run randoms in the future. You even said yourself in another thread, that you won’t have a problem to build a good group even with the RDF included in the game. The RDF doesn’t affect you in any way. All the harm it would do is just in your head.
So if the RDF solves a problem for a part of the community without having a downside it needs to be added.
I don’t even understand what point you try to defend here. Because you obviously don’t have one.
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Although Im not against RDF I want it later so Im more taking a devils advocate role here when it comes to this, there are clearly people who think their experience of the game will be greatly diminished by having RDF in the game and not being willing to listen to them but just dismissing them outright makes you look like you dont care about what they say at all.
I have had runs where I dont know anyone before and I have had runs where I know everyone before and ofc everything in between. I have experienced, you sound like you are so hurt by people not wanting to run with you, you blame other people for not wanting rogues, you blame people who want to use the dungeons as a bonding experience (read more casual) and you blame the min maxing (read more hardcore) for you having a hard time getting into dungeons.
Wow such a strawman, I have never said you cant have bad experiences without cross realm, I have said that they can happen but you can at least spread the knowledge of someone behaving badly to others wich leads to less people behaving like total idiots.
Where did I say that it will be a problem for me, re read what I wrote and think again.
It will bring downsides to others. Think of others and not just yourself and maybe maybe you will start to build up a group of people that wont ignore you when you need help so your group building wont take 4 hours (although im guessing you were hyperbolic there and its more like 1 hour wich is totally normal for a dps to have to look for a group and thats a bit anoying for sure)
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Maybe you don’t explain it clearly, don’t know. I don’t even know why you want it later if you don’t use it. Or how it will make your in-game life worse. I mean, you have stated so many times that you almost always do your runs with guild and friends.
Ah just read you meant to others. Still you prefer to appear later although you say it does not affect you.
And others talk about our social life in the game. Not even theirs!
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So for me the first few phases are what is important as guild building tool, thats when you replace people that quit and where you find new people. As someone from a guild that is not that hardcore but not super casual the mid expansion recruitment is not the easiest thing to do so having a few months atleast where people get to interact in a more organic way than what the RDF would supply would be great to have, once the amount of organic dungeon runs become less (as they always do) then the RDF becomes a useful tool to get things done, but everyone had fairly short times that they had to wait during the first month or 2 in tbc and it will be so again in wrath which means no need for RDF then.
I know im selfish when I say it but for me to get the most out of the game I would need a while without it and if the only 2 choices would be ether day1 RDF or no RDF ever I would chose no RDF but I still think having it appear at a later date would be beneficial for most people.
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I agree the “crossrealm is more social than realm only” is more than questionable. From my perspective there are downsides of crossrealm, like not being able to add them to the friend list and play with them again at a later time.
However, do you really think players, who want crossrealm, want it to be able to be toxic? Or do they rather prefer to have the option to do dungeons at all, because they are on low pop realms? And what is bad about wanting to be able to do dungeons? Without the low pop situation on many servers and factions, crossrealm would have been unnecessary from the very beginning. However, it is a fix for the queue times on low pop servers and low level dungeons overall. With an optional checkbox to turn crossrealm on and off, noone who doesnt want crossrealm will have to experience it, but everyone who thinks its necessary to from groups for him-/herself is able to do so.
I agree faction wise with the battleground argument. But dungeons dont have any influence on the faction balance. When it comes to pve content, the less players there are, the less appealing the server/faction becomes. RDF would tend to do more good than harm in that regard, because at least players would be able to play on low pop servers and able to get raid ready, instead of having to swap servers to have access to the basic content of the expansion.
As said, battleground wise you definitely have a point, especially on pvp realms, where players are more likely to play pvp. But there is one thing that comes to my mind. In classic players, who were trying to grind honor and sitting in queue for hours felt forced to look for kills in the open world and killed everything they got. This caused players to quit. I was on a fairly balanced realm where one faction completely vanished because it took hours of dying to even reach a raid for them at some point. While it would motivate people to get fast queues for battlegrounds on a server, as soon as it becomes nearly impossible to move in the open world, the upside doesnt really outweigh the downsides anymore.
At least after seeing that I understood the reason for crossrealm battlegrounds for pvp servers, too.
We could all agree that its reasonable to want crossrealm and to not want crossrealm, when it comes to RDF, so the option to enable/disable it would be a fine solution.
No, you are not selfish in my opinion. I just doubt that the chat (as it is how) is an organic way to make parties. I mean a non cross-realm rdf would be the same. Still I can understand your concern.
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What I think would be a reasonable way to introduce RDF is if it’s only active under certain circumstances.
Like:
It’s only available in the last patch of the expansion and will be deactivated for the next expansion again.
OR:
It’s only available if your Realm has currently less than a certain amount of players online. What that number should be, I don’t know yet. Make it less than 200 on your faction and it’s available.
The RDF only connects your realm with other realms with that little players.
The RDF does not give you any bonus rewards. Not even as a Tank. Instead it should give you an extra Mark for any player from your own Realm, that wasn’t invited by the RDF with a maximum of 3 extra marks.
The RDF is a service and thus should be paid for. For every Character the RDF invites for you, you have to pay a 5% Tax from all Gold you find within the dungeon.
Kicking a player requires positive votes from all party members. Except for the one getting kicked of course.
Leaving a dungeon prematurely gives every other player the choice to mark the leaving player as a deserter. If marked as a deserter, all your loot earned in the dungeon will be rolled back and you will be locked out of all dungeons for 30 Minutes +5 more minutes for every unkilled Boss within the dungeon. This Deserter debuff is account wide.
At the end of the dungeon you can give a thumbs up or down for all other players. The Matchmaking will try to match you with players you gave a thumbs up again, when possible.
Well without the RDF the msg I put out about looking for a dps or a healer can be tailored so that it will get newer players to be more interested in joining it, while with RDF even with it not being cross server it will just plop me down with other random players, and it could be 4 people from “insert big hardcore guild” who have no interest in joining my more social guild, while they most likely wouldn’t be interested in joining my group that specifically dont ask for full tier 6 geared people while leveling, thats where the even same server RDF in the beginning would make a difference for me and my guild.
So obviously it weren’t a lot of runs with full strangers. You pretend to be an expert on something you barely tried.
I don’t take 2 Karate lessons and pretend to know everything about Karate.
You need to realise, that you are talking with people who know more about this yours topic then you. So stop fighting already.
I can’t deny this. But it’s just what happens if you get constantly denied into dungeon groups because of your class, even though you have better gear then the average player and you are able to pull your own weight, plus weaker players with you.
Just be happy you didn’t have to experience this and stop implying it’s not a problem or even my fault.
No I don’t. You can bond as much as you like in dungeons. I am saying bonding in dungeons isn’t affected by the RDF in any way. You can still bond with people from other servers too.
It’s just your impression that min/maxing is hardcore. You don’t have to be a hardcore player to min/max and you don’t have to be a casual player to socialise or bond with people.
So with that out of the way I come to your statement. Yes I do blame the min/max culture for the bad game experience I’ve had. But don’t get me wrong min/maxing in itself isn’t bad. When people overdo it it’s bad. None of the dungeons in TBCC required you to have a certain meta group to finish them. If you run meta builds in those dungeons you just exclude people, you could have still cleared the dungeon with. What for? You don’t gain anything and they will have a bad game experience.
Another thing I’ve noticed is, that it’s especially casual players, that stick to those metas as if they were their religion. Those metas aren’t meant for casuals. They are meant for speed runners. If you are a casual you are better of running now with the rogue that is available immediately, instead of searching 30 minutes longer for a warlock, that allows you to run the dungeon 10 minutes faster.
What bothers me is that the min/maxing has become completely irrational and an end to itself.
And how can you try to defend the social aspects of the game and at the same time blame be, because I dislike that people are getting excluded from dungeons for no good reason? This doesn’t fit.
And you just ignored another thing I’ve been saying the whole time, which actually is my main point.
The server population is broken in TBCC. You can’t play the game on small servers as intended. And before you start saying it’s just me again, I tell you I’ve worked extremely hard to make this game work out. I put a lot of work in the guild. I farmed materials for resistance gear and always helped when people where short for a damage dealer for dungeons they needed for attunements. Me and some other guildies pulled the whole gold through the attunements one by one. Because whenever we asked in the guild chat, if somebody still needs the attunement nobody replied. And the next day somebody that was online at that time just casually says: “Oh I still need this dungeon for the attunement, but nobody helps me.”
I’ve spend a bunch of gold for JC receipts I just gave our MT, so we do have them in the guild and he has a way to farm gold. But whenever I wanted to do a dungeon and asked in the guild all I got was silence. And if I asked people directly they just kept making excuses.
I needed MT HC for my pre raid BiS, but since the dungeon is hard without shadow resistance nobody wanted to do it. I supplied every tank in the guild with complete shadow resistance sets consisting of green items I’ve bought from the AH, in hope they would run this dungeon than. It didn’t happen. I also had to give away shadow resistance sets I’ve bought to random tanks I’ve never seen again, just to get my BiS item out of this dungeon.
That’s just the work I’ve put in the guild. Obviously I only ever ran dungeons with them, that I didn’t need anymore. So in order to run the dungeons I needed I had to run random. Which I actually didn’t even mind. Because for me the guild is to raid and to chat. Dungeons is just something I want ri get done and I don’t care who I run with.
But as people were meta slaves it was hard to join groups so I had to build groups myself most of the time.
At first it wasn’t a big problem, because a lot of people were still doing dungeons. But that slowly changed and about one month into TBCC it was next to impossible to form a group. Especially since the dungeons left for me to do, were the dungeons nobody wanted to do. For about 2 months I’ve logged into WoW and started to spam the LFG chat every ****ing minute. I also spamed into guild chat and the custom channel we’ve had with our partner guild about every 5-10 minutes. Whenever somebody logged on in the guild, partner guild or friend list, I asked them directly, but all I got were excuses.
I didn’t play the game in the whole time. I just spammed chat channels. And the worst thing is, I rarely even got a run out of it.
My mentality is, that if something doesn’t work, I have to work harder, in order to make it work. But I’ve reached my limit. Most people wouldn’t have even kept trying as long as I did. But I did and I just ended up with the conclusion, that I’m paying for a game I can’t play.
This is why I want the RDF. I never want to build a group again. I just want to pool and get a guaranteed dungeon after a waiting time.
Sure it would be better, if Blizzard would just solve the server population problem. Because the RDF only solves the problem with running dungeons. The problem of finding guilds still remain. But there is no way Blizzard can do that. In my region every PVE server is dominated by alliance. So if they would merge all servers to make the game playable for the horde, they would end up with a mega server on alliance size, that is bigger than any existing mega server now.
I just don’t trust Blizzard with solving this problem, because they have a very bad track record of solving problems. So I rather take an already existing solution, that solves half of the problem than hoping for Blizzard to try and solve the problem but making everything worse in the process.
Since I’ve already wrote enough I’m not going to address your other points anymore. And as I see that you are not interested in a discussion, but just want to propagate your opinion, as you even said in another thread, I will just ignore you from now on.
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My points are valid, even if you don’t understand them.
My experience isn’t out-dated, I still play retail (or try to, it’s a brutal experience with how small the community is now).
If you don’t have a level 70 then you aren’t part of the classic community. This isn’t #NoChanges or private servers, it’s a product for the hundreds of thousands of people who play currently - RIGHT NOW. Not the people in “Lol WOTLK waiting room XD”. You don’t get to undermine that because you’re too anti-social to navigate a conversation with other players to achieve GROUP GOALS.
Because Retail is just what it is because of the RDF. You are obviously just trolling here.
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