All classes feel terrible

[Thession-shattrath]

There are just too many buttons. You can see the consequences of this in the severe lack of healers. I tried several healers and they all have a million buttons that basically do the same thing. On top of that you need to keep track of buffs all the time to be effective and cast specific abilities at a specific time. Oh and you also need to look at what the boss does occasionally so you don’t die.

The game is mostly designed around cooldowns now as a result of arenas. You need to manage your cooldowns for every pack and boss. It stinks. Nobody cares about arena.

This is what you get when you implement stuff like mythic+ and attract all the “content creators” and sweaty tryhards. Your game becomes vastly inaccessible.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

To respond to this thread’s title: Nope. BM Hunter feels awesome, albeit a bit weaker than I’m used to. I doubt you’ve even played ‘all classes’.

So I’m going to put this one down to hyperbole.

[Eyati-nordrassil]

Play a demon hunter, i hate it because it has to little buttons.

[Naleain-silvermoon]

This… literally just is not true though. Sure you might FEEL this way but… factually it’s just false.

The healers all feel genuinely unique and all have a very different feel to them. The healers are some of the few classes that actually has the least amount of unnecessary button bloat.

Yeah there’s a lot of buttons to press but there needs to be something for every situation. Just because YOU don’t understand when to press what doesn’t mean that the classes are bloated.

[Ishayo-tarren-mill]

@Naleain-silvermoon

Yeah there’s a lot of buttons to press but there needs to be something for every situation. Just because YOU don’t understand when to press what doesn’t mean that the classes are bloated.

Most of the buttons aren’t for situations. If only!

On a mage at least, most of the buttons presume you pressed another button. For example, there is no functional difference in when you should use Glacial Spike vs. Frostbolt, the only reason being that you have 5 icicles.

Icicles cannot be dispelled, nor do they expire when you change target or anything.

There’s no strategy there at all.

Ice Lances should be used when procced unless you need to slow or CC. There is no reason to cast anything else if you have ice lances. Originally it was supposed to be about freezing an enemy and then combo’ing with a frostbolt. Now it’s just a joke.

There are also a lot of other rotational busywork and also just a lot of defensive CD’s that do something else but also all reduce damage taken. Big AoE coming out? Invis for -50%. Big AoE coming out? Mirror Images for -20%. Another big AoE coming out? Guess what. The new Ice Block replacement thingy for -65% damage taken. Yet another? Guess what? (What?) Cond Snap (which is now only good for resetting block) → Ice Block again. Oh, one more? Alter + shields.

Some of these have subtly different uses outside of take less damage, but they all do that one thing, overlapping like crazy in the process.

At one point we had 3 different invisibility spells, and I also have a spell that blinks, a spell that blinks back, and a spell for moving while casting. They all have the same purpose.

Or how about Ice Nova, Frost Nova, Pet Nova? Do I really need 3 novas at the same time? Just for fun I could also add proc novas (Frostbite) and cone of cold nova. Because why not. 5 ways to freeze people.

Well yes, beacuse spell A interacts with spell B interacts with spell C and so in order to do max damage I need to use them all - but is it great gameplay? Lol, no.

You ask me, the game is in fact bloated - and worse still not only is it bloated, it’s actually missing a bunch of interesting buttons that were removed to make way for all these self-interactions.

[Annesathiel-doomhammer]

I’ve had no issues with any of the classes I play. In fact, I’m enjoying them all, they feel great.

@Thession-shattrath

There are just too many buttons.

No, there isn’t. Maybe try using Shift, Ctrl, and Alt modifiers?

@Thession-shattrath

The game is mostly designed around cooldowns now as a result of arenas.

WTF are you talking about? Classes are built around M+ way more than they are Arena. And Arena isn’t the only place you have to manage cooldowns, lol.

@Thession-shattrath

This is what you get when you implement stuff like mythic+ and attract all the “content creators” and sweaty tryhards. Your game becomes vastly inaccessible.

You don’t have to play M+, and there’s plenty to do if you’re too lazy to use or understand your toolkit.

You are what we call in the industry… a noob.

[Napfkuchen-madmortem]

@Naleain-silvermoon

The healers are some of the few classes that actually has the least amount of unnecessary button bloat

Eeh… wouldnt sign that statement to be honest.

[Naethir-antonidas]

Not to me; I hate the new dire beast thing as active button and then the crow swarm; even Dark Ranger summons those dogs - too many summons; miss just running around with two pets max, screen gets cluttered and I barely see my character… but I don’t want to spec MM or melee, so DR it is… °sigh°

DK feels weird, too - nothing does dmg anymore but the new button from the hc talent tree and that one has a min cd…

Would prefer my actual abilities doing more dmg instead of the special buttons with long CDs… those can all storm off.

[Lilíith-draenor]

@Thession-shattrath

There are just too many buttons. You can see the consequences of this in the severe lack of healers. I tried several healers and they all have a million buttons that basically do the same thing. On top of that you need to keep track of buffs all the time to be effective and cast specific abilities at a specific time. Oh and you also need to look at what the boss does occasionally so you don’t die.

The game is mostly designed around cooldowns now as a result of arenas. You need to manage your cooldowns for every pack and boss. It stinks. Nobody cares about arena.

This is what you get when you implement stuff like mythic+ and attract all the “content creators” and sweaty tryhards. Your game becomes vastly inaccessible.

You have like 3-4 main spells and like 3-4 big cds that cover like 90 percent of situation up to +10 keys.

Healers whine because for first time in decade thay have to be actually good at playing their Class instead enjoying almost free boosts like in legion - SL era

[Thession-shattrath]

I don’t want CDs i want my basic skills to do something. This is not World of Arenacraft where everything is about CDs.

[Croil-kilrogg]

Well ret is built around ashes now… as with DH with eyes lol once its on CD your DPS is meh.

[Annesathiel-doomhammer]

This thread isn’t about tuning, It’s about class design. IDK about Ret in PVE but in PVP its always one of the top DPS.

[Undervine-argent-dawn]

MM hunter is dead easy - plus, you can still use a pet to boost you and it holds up, not like previous xpacs that I felt my pet not having a place. Eager to try out survival too.

[Magicalgírl-outland]

If there’s too many buttons for you then don’t press them all. If you’re just doing casual content it won’t matter.

[Life-khazgoroth]

@Thession-shattrath

You can see the consequences of this in the severe lack of healers.

There has always been a lack of healers in PUG content. There is no lack of healers in organized groups, and raid guilds/groups often overflow with people who want to heal (more than there are slots). There is just a lack of healers who want to play with random people, and it has always been this way, even in times when you basically just used three spells to do all your healing (or one and a half, in case of paladins.

As for the state of healing:

Resto shaman seems to be in a good place right now. The spec does have plenty of buttons, but it doesn’t feel overwhelming to me. Many spells are instant, situational, or provide utility, giving me a fairly complete toolkit (it is why I play shaman - I don’t only want to heal, I also want to interrupt/stun/stop/etc).

I do agree that there are a number of dps specs that seem very bloated to me. That Hekili is one of the most downloaded addons tells me that there are many players who feel the same way.

But I would not necessarily blame this on the number of abilities, but on the way rotations are designed. They are busy and fragile, and there are often too many spinning plates that need to be tracked. If you make a mistake, your damage drops significantly. Pair with that the pace of group content and the number of mechanics (that you often also need to track) and you end up with gameplay that feels tedious and overwhelming.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Naethir-antonidas

Not to me; I hate the new dire beast thing as active button and then the crow swarm; even Dark Ranger summons those dogs - too many summons

Then you’re not a real BM hunter player.
BM can never have too many summons.
MOAR! MOAR!

@Naethir-antonidas

screen gets cluttered and I barely see my character

Then you’re doing it wrong. You’re supposed to be at range.

[Cunix-turalyon]

Not really the only classes there still has button bloat is. Brewmaster, Holy Priest, Outlaw, Resto sham and a bit resto druid.

[Valthydra-pozzo-delleternità]

What’s with CDs and this fixation for arenas? Timing CDs adds a layer of knowledge, communication and situational awareness required to perform better, without jeopardising the fun in easier content. They’re pretty standard in the entire genre, arenas or not.

Also no, classes don’t have too many buttons, they mostly have very few core abilities and a lot of more situational ones. Which is good, because it makes for a flexible and versatile approach to the moment-to-moment gameplay and gives players room for improvement, without ruining the fun for those who only want to use three buttons, because they can indeed only use three buttons in most of the content.

But really, buttons that fit in 24-36 slots can’t be too many in any case. It’s not like you need to learn the Iliad by heart, they’re just a handful of skills and you learn them easily in no time if you just read the tooltips and play the game.

[Naethir-antonidas]

You’ve got Packleader for that; I’d switch immediately to SV if they’d give us back ranged SV.

Pets suck; get stuck and obscure NPCs/corpses to skin; having to move them every time is annoying; TWW is the first expansion where I actively had to use the “move pet” button to be able to enjoy the campaign, because they always block the view

[Movíngtarget-twisting-nether]

Excuse me! Enhance shaman!
I have like 12 actual rotational dps buttons plus 10 utility.
It can’t get worst than that.

On top multiple setups to do actual damage. In aoe at least. Gotta manually spread flame shock on all targets with lava lash, then have to spread lightning rod on as many targets as possible.

Enhance is literally the worst offender with bloat and setup. And it is one of the worst specs to play with early expansion low haste values.