Alliance death knights

I was trying to think of how unholy dks would be accepted into alliance or horde for using scourge magic as in spreading plague and raising ghouls because surely it is morally wrong and “honorless” anyone got any ideas?

Warlocks and Void Elves are also accepted by the Alliance. Sometimes when a weapon is so powerful you just have to forget about the moral obligations against it and just utilize its potential - even if you are the overly goody Anduin Alliance.

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The real point is ‘how’ and ‘when’ such skills and powers are used.
And that is where the most people will debate and discuss and have differing opinion.

Some profess that all Death Knights must be necessarily Ebon (or Scourge) otherwise they’re rogue. Some profess that a Death Knight can just answer to the hierarchy of Alliance / Horde.

Probably everyone will say ‘In a grand battle you can use your ghoul and your powers; but if in you cannot have your ghoul out and at your side’. The variable is “If I am travelling the road of Duskwood / Barrens / Outdoor region…” can a ghoul be there without producing issues or hostile reactions?

Personally I think a well played DK can be Alliance or Horde, not necessarily Ebon, nor ‘hunted to be rogue’ one. But their dark powers should be used only and exclusively in fights and battles - and yeah ghouls / undead minion of turn are a no go in general except in battles and it even depends what / where is risen!

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Warlocks, shadow priests, void elves, dark iron dwarves are all accepted into the Alliance, so are demon hunters.

But to answer your question:

The short answer is: they’re accepted into the Alliance, because they were formerly of the alliance, and come with an endorsement from Tirion Fordring.

it just works

also it’s not like the alliance is great at morals and honor by any stretch

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The Alliance often courts the powers of darkness, corruption and evil, because they’re the villains :slight_smile:

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We basically had someone ask a similar question about warlocks and their demon minions several years back. Ultimately it’s a game mechanic feature, which is why a felguard isn’t immediately turned to mince meat by the guards in Orgrimmar. Implication being that they would totally do that if the game’s mechanics didn’t prevent it.

I reckon it’s much the same with ghouls, geists and whatever else a DK might conceivably raise or stitch together. No one is likely to object on a battlefield, but don’t bring it for your evening walk past the orphanage and expect no trouble.

Are they? I distinctly recall their Orgrimmar/Stormwind bases being referred to as temporary back in Legion. I think they’re certainly tolerated by the powers that be, but I have no recollection of any formal induction to either faction.

Frost and Blood are no less Scourge magic than Unholy - although it may well be subject to more scrutiny, given that it’s not as “subtle” as the others.

However, I wouldn’t say it’s a matter of honour or morality. The Alliance military routinely use dubious means to achieve victory, mostly through the SI:7, and I imagine most Death Knights solely loyal to the Alliance would find their place among such regiments, or other “black ops”, for lack of a more canon/in-world term.

Unholy DKs are about more than just necromancy. Food and supplies are the backbone of any army, and being able to summon disease or turn them rotten on command would be an inexpendable tool. You don’t even need the Ghoul to be useful. But of course, there’s no precedent for this in-game. It’s all what you can make of it, at the end of the day.

But if your question was whether or not they’d be ‘accepted’ into common society, I’d say no, but then again no Death Knight should strive for that. You can’t just walk around town with deadly, disease-carrying insects buzzing all about you. At least wear a mask, for crying out loud.

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It’s not the kind of warm welcome given to, say, allied races. But the quest chain establishes DHs as part of the alliance / horde.

Quite, though the wording is slightly different when you’re not playing as a Demon Hunter yourself, much apropros their presence being a temporary permission.

Granted the name of the quest you linked does seem to imply cooperation “within the fold” so to speak.

Death knights are cool

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Some makeup, nice clothes, wash your ghoul or use squeaky clean skeletons!
But jokes aside, the fact you are a death knight don’t necesarry means you have to wear your skull decorated saronite armour and be followed by a private little shambling horde army when visiting a city for some reason
Dress up nicely and don’t spread pestilance, maybe wear shades to hide your eyes
Even Arthas managed to walk right to his daddy and he was wearing his full DK outfit! Hoods and capes are marvelous thing
A bit like Clark Kent’s glasses (spiler: he is Superman) and haircut

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Our Death Knights are former heroes of the Alliance/Horde who were raised as DKs but were able to break free from the LK’s grasp. The factions are also very aware that Death Knights are going to join the other faction, and that they would be tremendous weapons. It was a smart move. Otherwise, they were just Fourth War veterans who were raised, as we see with allied race & pandaren DKs.

Demon Hunters appeared amidst a massive Legion invasion, and that’s why they were accepted. I don’t remember any formal joining, but it’s fair to suggest that they found their way into the respective factions along the way

With warlocks, I recall Varian having a line about the Alliance pressuring warlocks into service in Tides of War. My guess is that if they’re being a warlock to contribute to the Alliance (or just to Azeroth at this point), they’re pog. Otherwise, not so much

I am a War Machine. Turns out we’re at War.

The Forsaken narrative of being rejects really fell apart when they gave the Alliance those Death Knights. Should have had Demon Hunters for Alliance, Death Knights for Horde.

Not really
The Forsaken are sentinent, yes, but not really better than your average zombie
Not raised for some Glorious Purpose™… just cought the Plague or Sylvanas’ servants dug their up from their (usually mass) grave
While the Death Knights were rised by (well in theory) the Lich King himself or one necromancer of great power, carefully picked because of reasons (mostly because was a hero to begin with to a degree) and the pinacle of rising dead, not rotting shambling corpses, but well preserved (Natahanos or Sylvanas level of preserved, enhanced) and powerhouses by their own right
If anything they reinforce the Forsaken narrative of being rejects!
They are indeed rejetcs… especially compared to the Death Knights
While the Death Knights? Undead, raised, but they are the cool kids from the block, they are the football jocks of the collage, the stars of the team, the favorite of the teachers and invited to all the parties
The Forsaken? They are the nerds from the chess club basically
Death Knights? Bart Simpson
Forsaken? Milhouse Van Houten… or Ralph Wiggum actually

Okay but Forsaken weren’t rejected because their power level wasn’t over 9000 they were rejected because they were undead.

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Useless undead mind you
Unlucky victims
If they would have been over 9000 nobody would have complained, in theory at least (heck, I’m sure the Alliance and the Horde would have started another war for the “right” to either destroy them or have them). After several horrible war an elite force of [insert random beings] is a boon. Thats why - at least from gameplay reasons - you could find DKs and DHs in both faction (but they are more or less independent, aiding boths side when needed), immagine only one of them in “controll” of such a force… the other would be gone.
But the question wasn’t the “Why the Forsaken were rejected?” but the 'Why the Death Knights were accepted?"
And the Forsaken narrative of being rejects fell apart or not with the intorduction of the Death Knights and the fact they were accepted, while the Forsaken were not

Those useless undead default danced all over Southshore and Gilneas so idk about that one.

And the answer is because Tirion Fordring gave them a permission slip saying "yes u can join a faction :slight_smile: "

that’s it
that’s all

I was replied to this
What do you think?
The Forsaken narrative of being rejects fall apart when they gave the Death Knights to the Allaince (too)?
Or not? And if anything the fact they were accepted while the Forsaken were not reinforced the whole narrative of the Forsaken of being rejects?