They don’t have to endorse him to acknowledge Sylvanas’ own treachery.
Garithos was an unjust, racist, incompetent moron, and I imagine most of the Alliance agree with that. However, he’d so far done little to suggest he’d betray Sylvanas that day.
I strongly suspect the outcome would’ve been the same had any other Human (or Elf or Dwarf) being in command. Hell; Kael’thas and his Blood Elves might have met their demise at her hands, had Garithos not being in charge and they’d stayed in Lordaeron.
As far as we can tell, Sylvanas had always planned to rid Tirisfal of Alliance remains, securing the Capital for herself.
I think this entire debate is in itself pointless because you will always get two sides. trying to convince the other.
The current Horde was made to give its members a Home and protection against what ever is out there in the world that might want to challenge them. It also consists out of mostly monstrous, and morally questionable races. This often leads to stories where the Horde gone and does bad/evil things.
The current alliance was made to give its members protection from the Horde. It also consists out of mostly traditional fantasy races. This often leads to stories where the Alliance acts as the generic Hero type.
There are evil people in the Horde, and Alliance. but the Horde’s Evil takes centre stage because it makes for easier story telling to make them the antagonist
There are Good people in the Alliance, and Horde. But the Alliance’s good takes centre stage because it makes for easier story telling to make them the protagonist.
What should have been and what we got because of Dev/Writer incompetence (if you HAVE a Lore Bible but are IGNORING it because ‘muh rule of cool quests’, then you effectively do not HAVE a Lore Bible, and are thus actually incompetent) makes this debate as linearly laid out as a corkscrew.
Horde is the worst because Blizzard writes them to be the antagonists despite claiming it’s “morally grey.”
Which sucks because the Horde is a morally grey entity with a tonne of differing and contrasting goals and beliefs with the overarcing goal being mostly just to survive and continue existing - that should make them the underdogs, but Blizz instead just decides to randomly make them evil for plot convenience.
I’m oversimplifying it, but they’ve done the Horde so dirty - they’re either straight villains doing villain things or rendered entirely toothless when neither are fun or “proper” representations of what the faction should be.
Random addition but to me tauren are the peak race that embody the Horde - the whole mentality of “seek peace, but prepare for war”, not necessarily wanting violence but absolutely being willing to take up arms if it means defending themselves. Or maybe I’m just a furry. It’s probably that.
Losing Garrosh to the villain bat at least was pretty well foreshadowed and, even though I think it would have been more interesting/better for him to be a fighty but ultimately Ok leader/a Megatron, once is ‘Ok’.
Losing Sylvanas to the villain bat was stupid and badly written and I will never stop being mildly salty about that. I wasn’t even massively fussed about the Forsaken/Sylvanas, but how poorly handled that was for a worse SoO 2.0 ‘plot’ gets me mad on principle.
Also, just having Genn, Rogers and the others warmonger/blind vengeance just kinda… fizzle out? The potential for Alliance infighting just going nowhere? Yeah. Wasted. Stupid.
I do like how Genn’s story ended though. I think realistically his arc was always going to be tied to Sylvanas, and prior to SL I fully expected the two of them to die together, or at least both end up dead. Genn hasn’t stopped being a warmonger necessarily, that anger is very much still there during Gilneas’ reclamation - but he also knows that it’s maybe not what all of his people want.
Which means he clearly didn’t speak to many worgen RPers on Argent Dawn because almost every worgen on this server wants bloodshed against the forsaken LMAO
We need just 1 clear in your face moment where the Alliance does the bad thing, because its definitely able too. And it will suffer from the same stigma the Light suddenly got after they introduced Exarch Yrel, in the Mag’har intro quest. people will just accept the fact that this thing that they saw as good, is now no longer untainted.
Because making the Horde do good just won’t change minds. because they have done a LOT of good. but you Frick 1 goat…
I don’t ignore any of it, I just see the stark difference in one NPC committing a horrific deed that the Forsaken do on a daily basis.
It’s never outright confirmed, but High Executor Anselm does say that while Arthas is the main goal of the Forskaen in Northrend, the Alliance is an obstacle to be crushed wherever they are encountered.
We’ve known this ever since we saw the Scarlet Crusade in Classic, it’s just been a matter of the Light is good but can be used for bad.
A hypothetical we’d never get to see, due to Garithos and the Kirin Tor.
Though one I have to disagree with. Her attitude in the Sunwell manga, along with Vereesa and Kael to me strongly suggest the opposite.
A hypothetical of my own: Garithos orders Kael executed, and the Kirin Tor refuse - he’s king of Silvermoon, a member of the Kirin Tor, and saviour of Dalaran. In response, Garithos goes rogue and leaves. Kael and the Kirin Tor organise a push to Lordaeron and encounter Sylvanas along the way, with Vereesa mediating.
They succeed, of course (Rhonin’s raptor army no doubt gets deployed) and Capital City is retaken. The Forsaken and Quel’thalas officially (re)join the Alliance, forming an Eastern Kingdoms bloc that is without peer. United, they push to Northrend, intercepting Arthas (Illidan is never freed from Maiev’s clutches), only for Kael to be cut down and Sylvanas forced to retreat.
The Alliance’s strong focus on the events in the eastern kingdoms and northrend means that the Night Elves never receive proper diplomatic attention from the Alliance, leaving Thrall and Cairne free to negotiate with them. While the Night Elves are not part of the Horde officially, they are nevertheless bound allies (much in the same way the Horde and Zandalar ended up), in turn creating a Kalimdor powerhouse.
Ah, what could’ve been…
Seems odd to call them an ‘obstacle’ if the Forsaken didn’t initiate hostilities.
Mechanically they’d end up Horde-playable but they’d fall under the Night Elf ‘banner’, with significant tension 'cos of the Orcs.
In real canon, iirc, Velen wasn’t even that anti-orc when he arrived on Azeroth, compassionate+forgiving that he is, while Thrall (understandably) feared retribution when he heard of the Draenei’s arrival, so it’d be a case of Velen maintaining a peace while those beneath him chafed for vengeance at a Horde that sought to make amends.
