Am I the only one hyped for the sub changes?

Whilst is isn’t a complete class overhaul (which was not to be expected) I like the steps they have made. Things may also still change.

I am curious though, they mentioned that Rupture would replace Nightblade but we’d have our slows and healing reductions though poisons (yay) but what about the 15% damage buff Nightblade does? I really hope they don’t just scrap that ability by making Shadowdance more powerful but used less often. It would result in less consistent sustained DPS.

before nightblade became a thing in legion, that was attached to rupture (plus garrote and hemorrhage (with a glyph)). so that might happen again. we’ll have to see.

not really. it’s all tuning. removing a constantly up 15% dmg modifier just means you increase damage by 15% and you’re at the same place. it is a big change to burst though because you don’t need to apply rupture before you burst, so those points can go towards eviscerate. but i wouldn’t be surprised if it comes back on rupture.

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They also said less dances but more damage during those. It kind of looks like a pre Legion sub, and that looks really cool 'cause Legion and most of all BgA aren’t very fun.

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Do you think Shadowstrike will stay? It’s a cool ability, I enjoy using it and it’s a nice builder.

I prefer Ambush over SS but it’s a habit I guess.

I don’t think that SL will fix sub rogues but I guess it’s too early to say.

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I like the way Blizz approach it this time (first, discuss their plans with players, second, implement them for long therm to the game) wich gives me some small hope.

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What changes? There’s none, not literally, but you can safely say there’s no changes to SUB :smiley:

I think the return to something akin to WoD Sub is a good thing. I do have some issues, though.

I don’t think SnD has any place in the game anymore. All it does is slow down gameplay by forcing you to have more ramp up before you can deal damage. It’s a maintenance buff you use to not suck. It’s not fun or engaging, it’s just something to deal with. None of the specs actually needs it, and can be balanced just fine without it. In the case of Sub, Energetic Recovery could just as well be baked into Shadow Techniques or Symbols of Death. SnD is just outdated, and the only thing it has going for it is nostalgia, which in this case isn’t enough to return it.

Shadow Dance with a 1min CD is good, but being able to lower that CD by Deepening Shadows can cause balance issues, which in turn might hurt the Spec in the long run. Removing Deepening Shadows, or giving Shadow Dance a longer base CD would help with this. When you can’t use Stealth abilities too often, Shadow Dance and Vanish feel more meaningful, and your damage outside of these CDs and Opening can be balanced more fairly. If you have too much access to Stealth abilities, then your damage will have to be nerfed to the ground outside of them, which is something we’ve seen Sub go through during Legion and BfA. This isn’t even touching on the CC abilities, that can be a bit broken in PvP, is you can use them all the time. However, balance is achievable, if Shadow Dance can’t be used too often.

Shadowstrike is just Ambush+Shadowstep. It’s mostly a matter of how much mobility they want to tie into Stealth and Shadow Dance. Before Shadowstrike people just used macros, so effectively it was the same thing. If they want Ambush to be used by Sub, then Shadowstrike needs to go.

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Remember this is the alpha, and Blizz said, this isn’t a final form yet, and everything could be different. I hope Blizz read their forums too :wink:

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