Am I the only one who doesn't like mythic 20+ gear rewards? raiding question

Community General Discussion
1

So, I used to raid a lot back in a day (Wrath-MoP-WoD), then my raiding time severly diminished, but I still kept raiding a bit (BFA-SL-…).

The main difference and reason why my raiding days diminished (and progress as well) between these 2 eras - the amount of stuff I had to do outside the raid to actually raid. Because I moved from 4raiddays/week to 1-2raidday/week - my progress went down from being able to reach end bosses, to being stuck somewhere in the middle (the only exception is N’zoth, since his patch took forever, and there were a lot of time to get cutting edge even on 2raid nights); Because mythic raiding is all about managing to “survive” and “invest” 100-200+ wipes - time invested to learn as a team correlates heavily with progress.

So in order to raid in a little bit more serious guild, one of the main requirements (and a reasonable ones may I add) are:

  • Farm X borrowed power system every day every week
  • complete 4 or 8 max gear level m+ dungeons

These 2 requirements alone takes so much time, especially x8 m+ dungeons (without pushing key up, that is easily 6 hours/week, or 2 evenings).

Now when I see that +20 is the new m+ cap (which also will be much harder now due to scaling, lost powers, etc.) - in order to raid I will need to invest even more time outside the raid to comply. At least +15 key success rate is very high, but +20? nope (I only did x2 +20’s in SL, in season2); So key depletions will be very common, and this will cost even more time;

And then I have a question for myself - why should I raid 6h/week, if I will need 12+ h/week to do other activities, so I am not letting down my team?

Ofc you can say “but you don’t need to do m+ to raid, just do raid” - y, but I will be slowing down my team, and if I do something - I want to contribute as best as I can. I know I am capable raider (not the best by any means, not even close) to reach end bosses, but I no longer able to reach them due to lack of time investment.

I don’t want to be some crybaby here - but it seems I will no longer be raiding, just because of changes outside the raid (which is silly).

2 Likes
2

I guess it’ll all depend on scaling and how hard 20s will be. I’m not sure that we can judge that solely on current beta tests.

People did complain that, in SL, it wasn’t fair that they had to do m+ in order to progress in the end-game content they wanna play (PvP, raids). Maybe that’s Blizzard answer : you get to choose one activity as your main one, and rewards will (or should) follow.

As sonmone with only one night a week of gametime, I’m pretty happy that I could get decent gear in SL. I just hope the new system won’t change that too much.

1 Like
3

You dont get additional items from vault while doing m+. You still can get only one item. Increasing diversity of ways to get gear dont affect game in a bad way. The best gear is still obtainable in raids only. Blizz just decreased difference between the best raiding and the best m+ gear. Why the hell is happening in that forum - you still can do 15+ only and get THE SAME GEAR YOU GOT FOR ALL THE SL. They didnt decrease reward for 15+. You also isnt forsed to do all 8 m+ to get reward. You can do just one and still get the same amount of rewards. Increasing ways to get decent gear isnt bad for the game. Its very healthy change because game is not about raids for the very big plast of players. So Ill tell it again - if they add decent gear in another type of content - it doesnt mean that you have to do it especially at highest difficulty. Problem is only in your head.

4

As I understood - scalling above +10 will be harder (instead of 8% increases - we will be getting 10% increases). Plus we will be losing a lot of power (character scaling from stats), tier sets will not be as strong, and seasonal affix will not be giving so much power. When you sum all of this - it sounds even 15s will be harder to complete.

Well, you are kinda forced to do 8 of them, even if you fill your vault with raid. Why? because you want to have as much dice-rolls in the vault as you possibly can, to maybe get a weapon/trinket. And when you are lucky to roll one - you want it to be high ilvl, so you don’t waste that roll.

Imagine in SL getting IQD week2 in vault, but it’s low ilvl, and then never see it again in whole season (true story)

5

That’s what valor is for.

Honestly, OP, I don’t see why this change impacts you. If you’re good enough to get CE, surely you’re good enough to time +20 keys, and timing a +20 doesn’t take any longer than timing the same dungeon on +15.

6

You still didnt loose anything with that change. If you do all 15+ in df then you will get the same reward as you got in sl. Nothing is changed that way. They just added possibility to get better gear for those who dont raid and do m+ as main content and do it at highest difficulty. They didnt get any reward for that before (tps? Lol). Now they will get it. Whats the problem then? Just do 15-16 like you did in sl and get gear few ilvls less than you can get from THE HIGHEST DIFFICULTY CONTENt.

1 Like
7

How can you upgrade IQD, when you never get one? For example my season3 druid tank (VroomVroom name) - after looting Hakkar scale in heroic dungeon - he never ever got Hakkar scale in any mythic run or vault. So how exactly valor helps here?

And about timing - as I remember I have 3 or 4 CEs, and numerous reaches of end bosses, but in the whole history of m+ - I only timed 2 +20 keys since legion (both was in S2 SL when I tried it, and I didn’t like it at all).

And to level my key to 20 it took me ~4evenings of pugging. That wasn’t enjoyable as well - there wasn’t a lot of people who wanted to do them, and hoping to win a lottery ticket to move from 18-19 to 20 (which is the hardest barrier) is not fun as well.

8

You’ve quoted the post I responded to and my reply, but you still managed to follow it up with something totally unrelated.

9

but then why should I slow down my team, by doing lower level dungeons and getting lower level gear? So I get blocked from raiding, because of m+? This sounds logical to you?

well, I answered to what you wrote (about valor upgrades, and timing 20s). Nothing else to add from your side?

10

you can do 15s to get worse gear then in SL

and gear that is not max level - ergo you cannot stop there - you gotta push all the way to +20s to maximize the rewords.

this means that 16-20 will be filled with tons of bad players hwo dont belong there only look for free carry

it will make everyone pugs experience significantly worse and much more toxic.

11

yep - you cannot hide personal mistakes in 5 man content the same way as you can in 20 man . thats why high m+ are much harder for weaker players then mythic raiding is you are 100 % correct .

12

You did 13 DoS in S3, you can’t even pretend like you tried to farm the trinket lol. Especially given that you did 6 run per dungeon on average, so doing 7 run more does not really look like looking for something to me.

If you look for a specific item to upgrade, spamming 2s or generally low key is always better given that is 2 piece guaranteed exactly like a 15.

13

Why would there be? I was responding to someone who complained their IQD wasn’t high enough ilvl - ‘that’s what valor is for’. Not having an IQD at all is an entirely different situation, and not relevant to valor being available for upgrades.

14

Currently my guild is a similar place. We raid 2 times a week and try to get CE each tier.

It is true that until now we had requirements to do at least 4 15s each week, but we also had the policy that last 2 days of the week, we help everyone in the raid complete that. That means that players that could not find a group, had no experience or just wanted to gear an alt, could get their weeklies.

In DF, this will not be the case, cause there are not many people that actually could easily help people do 20s. So even if they tell us to do 20s, there is no way to “enforce” it when people cannot actually complete it.

What I find more probable, that is the new “rule” will be to complete like 4-8 15s, in order to get your weekly, or whatever level you are comfortable clearing.

15

Only… if your team is also committing to doing 4-8 max level dungeons per week.

Tbh, I don’t think cranking up the M+ cap was intended to make raiding harder; it’s intended to say “this is not a shortcut to mythic raid gear”.

But M+ has been in this weird state of 1 “free” endgame item every week for nearly no effort, vs doing an actual mythic raid which is probably still just 1 endgame item every week on farm night, only it takes absolutely weeks to work up to being able to kill all the bosses. Most guilds who start mythic never clear it, and many end up farming the first 4-5 bosses only. It’s been odd that M+ has been a relatively easy way to top up your raid gear.

And now it won’t be.

I think that players in DF are probably going to come to an interesting realisation; not everyone can access max level gear from M+. Certainly not in the first few weeks, but possibly not ever. Just like with raiding. Almost anyone can clear normal. Many can clear heroic, with some time and effort. Few can clear mythic. And just like with rated PvP. There are not a lot of top-bracket players.

Personal 2p is there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting M+ in that same position whereby endgame gear will require real effort and time to achieve. It’s being made worse, it’s being realigned with the other endgame content options.

But guilds will need to adapt. We can’t keep asking that everyone prepares for heroic by clearing some max M+ keys every week. It’s not a light, easy thing to do any more.

And what I think it will do is preserve some of the specialness for everyone who dabbles with mythic raiding. You won’t arrive at it already geared for the content. You’ll arrive at it 6-9 ilvls down with something to get out of it.

Which to me, seems like a good thing :smile_cat:

1 Like
16

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.