When Anduin Lotar reigned Alliance as High Regent, Anduin Wrynn didn’t exist. Varian Wrynn, his father, was a kid himself.
- A regent is not a king.
- Lothar never reigned the Alliance, as no single ruler ruled the Alliance
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No, Anduin Wrynn didn’t exist in classic. His father Varian was a kid.
But when Llane Wrynn died, who commanded the Alliance then? I was sure it was Anduin Lotar as High Regent of the alliance, and the girl… Onyxia, what’s her human name?
This guy is trolling.
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Or he’s never actually been to Stormwind in Classic…
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Yeah I was always the horde side… So I am wondering who’s the king.
I thought when the king Llane died, little Varian was still a child, so Anduin Lothar acted as Varian’s regent until Stormwind could be retaken and reigned Stormwind.
Llane was king during the First War (WarCraft 1) and was assassinated by Garona when the Old Horde (Blackhand and Orgrim Doomhammer) took Stormwind.
Anduin Lothar took Varian Wrynn, who was still a child, to Lordaeron. Being a child, Varian mostly just sat safely in Lordaeron City while Anduin Lothar and King Terenas of Lordaeron led the Alliance - which did not exist until those two founded it. The Horde reached Lordaeron and fought the Second War against the Alliance, which they lost, though Anduin Lothar was killed in the process.
Varian Wrynn became king of New Stormwind, a new city built over the ruins of the old Stormwind that was destroyed and used as a base by the Orcs, and eventually it dropped the “New” from its name, hence why it’s just called Stormwind in WoW.
Varian Wrynn grew up, and had a son, who he named Anduin in honor of Anduin Lothar. After the events of WarCraft 3 (the Third War) Varian went missing while on a mission to visit Jaina and talk to her about the New Horde led by Thrall (the current player faction Horde, rather than the demonic Old Horde).
Anduin Wrynn thus became king in Vanilla/Classic WoW, though still a child. Highlord Bolvar Fordragon became his Regent, until Varian Wrynn came back in Wrath of the Lich King.
That’s about all the necessary information.
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So Lothar was dead already in vanilla? I googled the screenshots and found little Varian with Bolvar on one side and Onyxia on another side of the boy.
But thanks for this piece of lore, I think I need to read more about alliance side.
I feel the exact same way as Forsaken. I want to follow Sylvanas, own up to being evil, and undergo the necessary punishment at the end of the line.
Remorse doesn’t absolve one from their crimes.
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This bit was retconned. He died on a 1v1 with Orgrim Doomhammer while their armies battled around them.
Must say, that I miss characters of their kind. Saurfang came close, but BfA ruined him (with his death duel being his only saving grace).
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I understand you OP.
Golden did hurt the writing. Sure it’s not all on her, but the return of Calia (and most likely Sylvanas tantrums) are.
Anduin right now is bad for the Alliance.
This “story” is really jarring for me.
The Nigthelves and Zandlari lost in this conflict.
I want both of those factions continuing the war for their revenge.
Edit: What would Lothar say to his namesake?
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As far as I’m concerned, pointless retcons like that are in-universe propaganda.
I mean, think about it. In the original lore, Orgrim Doomhammer earned the nickname “The Backstabber” for having Blackhand assassinated and usurping his place. Then Anduin Lothar was killed in ambush by Ogres and Trolls, rather than by Orcs. Orgrim Doomhammer was a bad guy, a truly villainous piece of scum - but Thrall never knew that.
Because Thrall met Doomhammer when the demon blood had faded. Thrall met a leader who was at the head of a broken people, not a conqueror and mass-murderer, and before Thrall could learn any different, Doomhammer died in battle with the very humans that, in Thrall’s eyes, were keeping the Orcs oppressed. Because of this, Thrall would name his New Horde’s capital after the old Warchief, thinking he was honorable - even though, as Saurfang admits, there’s nothing honorable about what the Old Horde did.
So all those inconvenient truths about Doomhammer’s dishonorable actions? Scrubbed away. Who remembers them, anyway? Who in the Horde is alive today and still remembers those acts? Saurfang. And Saurfang wasn’t going to break Thrall’s Horde apart by admitting that the man Thrall succeeded as Warchief - whose Thrall’s entire “honorable Orcish Horde” derives from - was made up. Making it known that Orgrim Doomhammer was just as bad as Blackhand the Destroyer would make Thrall’s reign illegitimate, it would make the Orcs question if they’re really honorable, as Thrall says, or if maybe the humans were right all along?
I think that makes the Horde a lot more interesting than retconning it to say the Orcs were somehow both honorable and driven by demon blood at the same time. They can twist the New Horde all they like to suit whatever the needs of the current story is, but let the Old Horde be evil. It’s supposed to be. That’s why I like it.
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Look, the sad thing is, we have no choice.
I mean sure, it’s stupid and looking back Doomhammer was kind of a moron. But oh well. He had to be “more” honorable. Why? Only so he could give Thrall the mantle of warchief. It’s… a stupid plot device.
I remember the mission well back during WC 2 in which Lothar got killed during peace talks.
We can’t choose those things.
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You make some good pointa but enough with the Daelin was proven right in the end.
This argument would only have merit if Daelin through his OWN actions had not put in motion the events which led to many of the issues that we are dealing with today.
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yeah, largely because anduin is their warchief now
don’t @ me
If Blizzard wants to treat the lore like it is fluid, then I don’t see why I can’t do the same!
If they actually cared about consistency, about making a coherent and fleshed-out world, I might feel tied to their decisions. But this is WarCraft.
Like, for example, they want me to believe Sylvanas died because she power-slid into Arthas’ sword? Yeah, no thanks. I much prefer to remember the real Sylvanas, who died nobly resisting to the end, not stupidly…
The big one for me is, of course, the Draenei. How long did they live on Draenor? Because originally, it was at least 5000 years. Then at least 1000 years. Then 200 years? What, and why? How did they build a civilization that spans across the continent in 200 years, from what, a couple hundred people living in the Genedar? It’s ridiculous. There’s no reason for these retcons, and they only make things worse, so to hell with them.
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Everyone who says Dealin was right, is in a faction bubble.
Sure Trolls are warlike, but Daelin showed with his attack on the Darkspears, he had no clear sight.
Because it’s not our story. No matter how stupid some changes are.
This does not mean I like it.
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Oof…you’ve probably met one of the biggest fans of Orgrim Doomhammer 
.
For the record I completely understand what you are saying.
But I do think that the edge they went for with Orgrim did in fact a lot of good for both the character and the narrative that followed. Just like the circumstances for Anduins death and how it all snowballed into both the Horde and the Sons of Lothar.
This is just my opinion, but the archetypal honourable soldier forced down a dishonourable war he is willing to win for the well-being of his people, whatever it takes, seems more appealing. Much like Nazgrim, I’m a sucker for said stories.
(This is the short version of why I think the retcon here was good, bit in a hurry. Might expand later)
Name me one good thing. The only thing it did was: Thrall could take Orgrims armor and the Doomhammer and be made warchief. That’s it.
From my POV? I could name a few. Driving atm, but I’ll edit on this post shortly. 