Cool, because you have some interesting views.
So let me summarize this thread: The Battle for Azeroth story is stupid. Why exactly did we need another thread which tells us something we all already know?
Ok, now that i have arrived, and i’m not risking my life for the sake of defending a fictional character (
), let me expand on why i think the retcon did a lot of good:
-It helped with the “transition”: By softening Orgrim’s background, Blizzard started showing glimpses of recovery for the orc race and a more sympathetic point of view beyond the demon drive. The shift from bloodthirsty beast to the kind of more moderate mindset we had in the playable games was no longer so sudden.
We started seeing an example in between both “worlds”, and a more complex reasoning. Orgrim wasn’t bad per se, but reasoned that he needed to do bad stuff in order to pull his people out of the sh!thole they were in.
Went from pitch black, to a more grey area.
-Yes, it contributed with bringing up a character like Thrall without painting him as a deluded ignorant. It created a somewhat solid mentor that Thrall could use. Sure it was a flawed one, but still had enough reasoning behind him to lay the foundations for something resembling sympathy. Otherwise, Thrall would’ve learnt most of his past thanks to the human perspective.
-It was a retcon that left the Alliance side unscathed. It helped “greying” the overall conflict from a meta perspective, but it was still one that didn’t affect the Alliance story in the slightest, allowing it to continue without major modifications.
Orgrim still did some nasty things and the Alliance had valid reasons to hate/fear his Horde, but instead of being the kind of monster Blackhand was, at least he had a reasoning with redeeming qualities from his allies point of view.
-It solidified the Orc background. We were offered a different perspective on said war, one that didn’t paint the whole Orc race as a bunch of hypocrites for wanting vengeance for the internment camps.
In short, it all circles back to a pretty simple concept: It helped having a more grey conflict. Something needed, given those are some of the ideals that inspired Thrall to create what became the playable faction for the MMO.
PS: Additional “pluses” for me, are the fact that a more moderate chieftain helped to tone down the “evilness” of the races around him by proxy. Amani, Ogres,… all those were no longer siding with an openly declared criminal, and instead were offered a formal allegiance by someone they could indeed follow and that had motives beyond “Setting the world ablaze” or any similar chaotic evil goal a pure villain would have.
PS 2: And i love this speech: 
"Have a care, warlock. Remember what happened to your precious Shadow Council. I can crush your skull in an instant, and then where will your destiny lie? And do not think this abomination will save you. I have felled ogres before, even the gronn. I can and will do so again. Your goals are no longer important. Only the Horde matters.
I rule the Horde now, Gul’dan. Not you, not your warlocks. Doomhammer alone. And there will be no more dishonor. No more treachery. No more deceit and lies!"
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Anduin had to survive, or whatever the name of the king might be that Blizzard do put on the throne of Stormwind. WoW - let the movie remind us - is a Human vs. Orc production.
For me personally, though, having Nelf chars, too, I would have rather seen that race leave this game in a final glorious act of defiance for good, than have it linger for handy convenience to be used by Blizzard again, i.e. rather be a wisp or a ghost than at the disposal of Blizzard lore department!
But, if Anduin is a moron. What does this make Greymane? After Orgrimmar he should leave that Golden Boy to the Proudmore family and be off to Gilneas trying to make a fresh start for himself and his people. He could form an Alliance with Calia Menethil if ever she gets to be the leader of the Forsaken. They might get along.
Let’s hope this never happens.
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I don’t understand the outrage…
I do understand disliking sloppy or/and silly/lazy writing, but…
Any Alliance member who craves genocide of the Horde, is no ally I would want.
I like Anduin. Maybe I am as naive and optimistic as he is, but I definitely see the sense in “swallowing a few camels” for the greater good.
Yes, there are probably some dispicable Horde members who deserve to die for what they did to Alliance members, but Sylvanas gave the ‘evil’ orders lately. Soldiers follow orders, unless they willingly risk being dubbed traitors (which is probably punishable by death no matter which side you’re on, even IRL).
I don’t think the entire Horde deserves to die, and if the Alliance were to try to truly defeat the Horde once and for all, many lives would be lost on both sides, and I am not confident that “we” would win. Thus, in my opinion, Anduin’s decision was wise.
I understand the night elves and other members of the Alliance might be offended or outraged that “Anduin lets the Horde off the hook so easily”, but as others said here: If we always have to retaliate in force - and our enemies do the same - we’ll all be dead soon.
And then the Old Gods, and the Void Lords (and the Cult of the Damned, because they will probably stay out of that war) will laugh at our corpses and doom the universe.
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Erm yes and since most of the high elves are now blood elves it technally counts as killing horde members (though i know the irony that they would probally still be Alliance if he hadnt attacked them) but Anduin is right.
Plus everyone is forgetting who he was talking to when he brought up Arthas the orc who lost his son to Arthas, Arthas may have been the litch king then but he was still in Arthas body.
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It’s not about genociding the Horde (in my case), it’s about the Alliance having peace conditions to ensure that there will be no third Garrosh-Sylvanas warchief and that he’ll be unable to start a new war.
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The Forsaken and Orcs in particular have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted. Genocide is the extreme solution and definitely one that makes sense for people to argue for in-universe, considering just how destructive those races have been, and the fact that this is medieval fantasy and Anduin’s modern liberal morality is extremely out of place.
In practice, and y’know, so as to not render some of the races entirely unplayable, genocide would obviously not be an option. That said, I want the Alliance to do something, not just let the Horde off with a warning - again. After Varian made it very clear that the next time, “we will end you”.
The Horde should be subjugated. Think of Germany after World War 2. The Soviets did not set out to exterminate Germans, they sought a Germany that was subservient to their interests, that could never again threaten their country with invasion, and served as a bulwark to Western aggression - and the Western Allies did the exact same thing, just flipped the other way.
The Alliance should be attempting the same thing. Disarm the Orcish population, establish a permanent, controlling garrison of Alliance soldiers in Orgrimmar, and have smaller garrisons in other former Horde territories. Disband the Horde, ban the use of its symbols, force the loyalists underground.
Not only does all this make a ton more sense for the Alliance to want to do, getting their way, getting their revenge, controlling the world - but it plants the seeds for the Horde to actually be the underdogs in the future, the way they were supposed to be ever since Thrall took over. They can’t be the misunderstood victims of bigotry at the same time as they’re the aggressors in every conflict and somehow can stand toe to toe with the Alliance.
Just saying “Okay, Sylvanas was bad, but she is gone so now all the crimes committed in her name are instantly forgiven” is absolute bullcrap. It is insulting, children’s book level of storytelling and absolutely doesn’t sell this as the World of "WAR"Craft. More like World of WhyCare?
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According to cinematic , Anduin says he only has enough soldiers for one final push.
Then Alleria says Sylvannas (before reckoning cinematic Horde) controls the only army capable of opposing Nzoth.
So that stronger army, united with the Horde rebels now, is the strongest army in the world. And the above prove the Alliance was, in the end, losing.
So ur lucky Horde is all for peace now and suffered another internal blow
Well, it’s reasonable man, Anduin basically points Saurfang against Sylvanas, Anduin is his great supporter recognizing that alone he can’t beat Sylvanas and not have to fight all the remaining Horde (he clearly doesn’t want to do that).
So Saurfang is asked by Anduin to sacrifice himself and then Anduin will go and say ‘ok, pay now’ ? It doesn’t make too much sense. Let’s just say that Anduin found the most pragmatic approach on ending the war with as few casualties as possible and the toll he (the alliance, not just himself) had to pay is ‘forgiveness’.
That sounds like a deal they should make, though the heart does not always follow the mind.
Personally, I would like to see less unity. Tyrande going rogue, Genn no more in line with Anduin etc. Maybe even from the Horde side. The Zandalari have every reason, and other Horde too, like the mass of Undead.
I highly doubt that Alliance and Horde can sit at the same table and it should show, maybe without an open conflict but with hidden actions, like attacks or people dieing and we dont know who did it.
Moreover - and frankly that is the worst of it - NO ONE wants to be warchief / king nowadays. Seriously? There should have been talks behind the backs even before Syvlanas left on who will take her place, that’s how people work
Which is kinda BS when you think about it.
The Alliance’s power levels have been yo-yoing all expansion. From the Alliance being this ‘global superpower’ against the Horde ‘underdogs’, to them losing WoT, winning SoL and faring well during the war campaign/kul tiras leveling (compared to Horde’s campaign and Zandalar leveling), to then needing to call on their last reserves in Lost Honour, to then winning BfD with no problems in sacrificing vast numbers of their troops and being only weeks away from winning the entire war, then back to only being a handful of soldiers after having half a dozen ships sunk.
It’s almost like the power levels of both the Alliance and Horde have never been established, so that the writers could manipulate it whichever way they need for story purposes, therefore making for an unsatisfying story where both sides are unjustifiably made weaker at certain intervals rather than having something that plays out logically by established lore 
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And yet there are still idiots in these forums who use the “that guy said it in-game, so its canon” argument.
So by their logic the Alliance is as good as finished.
Thx for helping me illustrate my point 
No. He is your King. Deal with it.
That’s the disadvantage of monarchy, sometimes you get a bad monarch and can’t do anything about it. Just wait until anduins son comes to power.
Maybe the night elves should just leave the alliance, oh wait they can’t because the story demands exactly two factions.
Races will never secede from their faction and neither faction will ever be portrayed as the “bad guys”. It’s gameplay over story, sorry.
Given how we achieved victory and avoided a bloodshed thanks to Anduin’s wise decisions, I think we needn’t wait for a better monarch.
Maybe the night elves should just leave the alliance, oh wait they can’t because the story demands exactly two factions.
And because Anduin can just blackmail them, since the majority of that race are hostages in Stormwind.
Anduin wouldnt blackmail the nelfs.
He neednt anyway, there are ministoris all around SW of nelfs making themselves at home, and also now that the Horde is superpower in the wake of the War (as Anduin says he doesnt have enough soldiers, just enough for one final push) the united Horde now (rebels and loyalists) are stronger.
So maybe, god plz, finally we can have some Alliance internal conflict with Tyrande killing Horde and Horde helping Anduin as he helped us.
Cause yeah… Genn and Tyrande aint brokering the peace for sure
“Anduin, Tyrandes perio…cough… vengeful killing streak, must be ended”
By all means, I think it still is canon, and I don’t care to get mixed up proving either way.
My point here is that it has occurred in a way that makes it absolute guff, and if I were to croak on about it more, as I have in the past, further evidence to how Blizz shouldn’t have never done a faction war storyline with it’s (current) style of storytelling.
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Bloodshed was avoided due to Saurfang challenging Slyvanas to duel, after which she fled.
Anduin had little to do with avoiding the bloodshed at the Orgrimmar.
On another topic, I don’t think that people are asking for genocide (this word is used way to loosely on this forum) of the Horde. People are asking that we stop pretending like past events didn’t happen, and at least try to bring some closure and justice to victims. People are asking that some races should realistically undergo a procedure of introspection, and acknowledgment beyond just pinning things on their racial leaders. At the end of the day, wars do end with some form of institutional reaction, be it regime change, demilitarized zone, international oversight, reparations etc etc.
Sweeping things under the rug and saying “It was just Sylvanas” is both unrealistic, and unhealthy. Not to mention it is not true, as it wasn’t “just Sylvanas”
So yeah, Anduin is portrayed as an unrealistic idiot, because thats what story needs him to be, as the storyline is suffering extremely because of the two factions system. Not to mention that again, story is victim to the fact that some playable races had mass murder as their geopolitical goal since day one, and Blizzard pushed itself into corner by this
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And Anduin set him on that path. He was wise to realize the potential Saurfang had. Even if liberating him was a spit on all the fallen of the First War, including his grandfather King Llane Wrynn, he was smart to divide the Horde from within by using Saurfang. Of course, he made the same mistake Varian did, he didn’t capitalize on his position of power, but again this is a dual faction MMORPG so neither Varian nor Anduin could do much in that regard.
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