Other classes (apart from Frost DKs) don’t have talents that tie them to a specific weapon type. Fury warriors do. If a mage is using a staff and a one-hander drops, they just have to wait for an off-hand to drop to equip and use both. If I, on the other hand, am playing a one-handed Fury Warrior and a two-hander drops, I will never be able to use it not matter how many more two-handers drop because you can’t play a one-handed Fury Warrior with 2 two-handed weapons equipped. The only thing I as a one-handed Fury Warrior can do with a two-hander is to vendor it. It has no use to me what so ever.
Sure, but how often do you hear people say they are running a “on-use trinket spec”, or an “elemental tier set” spec? And how many classes have talents tied to a specific type of trinkets or tier sets? Apples and oranges here.
But I’m not asking for something that would give one-handed Fury Warriors an advantage. On the contrary, I’m asking to not be at a disadvantage compared to other specs like we are now. It’s not “special” treatment. It’s equal treatment.
Most of complaints aboot SMF were mostly cosmetical concerns rather than gameplay concerns. I know one would like to play anihilator for a “slower” play style, but truth is, it’s as GCD locked as TG is.
I think this statement is where our misunderstanding come from.
I think there is a “Fury warrior”. I don’t think there is a “single minded fury warrior”.
I never call myself for example “an incarnation druid”. Even though I pick incarnation as a talent, and that talent has a significant effect on my gameplay. It’s still one talent and whether I pick it or not, I am still an a guardian druid.
So for me single minded fury is just a talent like incarnation for guardian druid not a spec in itself. You can learn/unlearn it depending on fight or content you are doing. For example, I unlearn incarnation when I am doing world quests and pick convoke instead (because I think convoke is better for solo content). I don’t consider myself a “convoke druid” or “incarnation druid” just guardian druid in both cases.
So you seem to consider 1H and 2H warriors as different specs. I don’t. Most fury warriors imp would pick 1H or 2H depending on which weapon dropped for them or based on which setup gives them higher DPS.
There are trinkets that are good for AOE and you them that with AOE talents.
And trinkets that are good for single target, you use with single target talents.
And trinkets that are good for PVP and you them with PVP talents.
And another trinket that is good for survival that you use when a high key tyrannical boss has a one shot ability
etc, etc.
Technically a Fury warrior can pick single minded fury talent and and dual wield use 2H weapons. Not the smartest thing to do but possible.
Also technical a mage can equip an AOE trinket with single target talents. Nor the smartest thing but also possible.
I was thinking Warriors would be at disadvantage if they have to choose between the two loot specs. I didn’t want them badly treated.
But I guess whether it’s disadvantage or advantage it depends on the loot table and what is BIS.
In a group loot situation having two loot specs for fury warriors will always be a disadvantage. In weekly vault it can be an advantage. In M+ dungeons with Personal loot it can be either depending on loot table.
If the best item for a mage is a specific 2H staff and the M+ dungeon that drops it also has a possible off hand drop and the mage could increase his chance of getting the staff by choose a 2H loot spec, then it would also be fair for warrior to choose 1H vs 2H too.
Blizzard created this duality when they created titan’s grip. Originally, fury warriors were dual-wielding one-handed weapons. Fury used to be about swift and fast strikes, like an armoured rogue.
Then Blizzard introduced titan’s grip and a lot of warriors were already complaining about it. Blizzard didn’t care. Then they realized how unpopular this move was so they gave this playstyle back and tried to balance it somewhat.
The easy technical solution would be to disable 2H weapon drops from fury, in this case you’d get the usual fury loot with one-hand weapons for SMF, but if you play TG you’d put your loot spec to Arms.
The hard part would be to communicate this to player and justify why fury can’t get 2H weapons, alternatively split the loot table into one-hand and two-hand rather than arms and fury.
And yeah right now while numbers might be a bit different, the playstyle is the same and it feels mostly cosmetic, maybe these talents need a bit more identity to set them apart
No, because it is about which playstyle you prefer.
If it was all about highest dps everyone would play the same specs and classes.
Yeah but they dont disable your talents. If anything you gain one.
yeah but Incarnation does not get disabled if you use a staff over a polearm.
And before this was common that you would use a talent or build to describe what kind of “guardian druid” you were. Especially with the classic style talents where you could make hybrid builds.
But still you can switch between incarnation and convoke with the press of a button. No additional items required.
Naturally, since the only 2h mage can use is staff.
Mage use staff, 1h sword, dagger and wand + offhand.
Warrior can use all weapons except wand and warglaive.
Imagine being SMF trying to get their BiS weapon.
Both fury and frost dk have the option to force 2h by changing to arms and unholy.
But if we want 1h we have to dig through 2h drops aswell.
IIRC frost dk want dw 1h because that build is better.
there is no difference between loot when it comes to TG fury and arms so combining them is fine. same for 2h frost and unholy being one loot spec.
Then make dw frost and SMF for 1h.
While it is obviously gonna be only strenght weapons.
That is still 1h maces, axes, swords, fist weapons, 2h axes, maces, swords, polearms and staves. edit: minus staves i was thinking from my classic warrior but i dont think they get str unless green now.
That is 9(8) possible weapon types compared to mages 4.
There are no strength staves (and never have been afaik). There are no str fist weapons (at least not this season).
There is a total of 4 items usable by DPS warriors in weapon slots in the VOTI loot table: 2H Mace 2H Axe 1H Sword 1H Mace.
A total of 4 items useable by a mage in weapon slots: 2H Staff 1H dagger 2x Off-Hand
See, it doesn’t matter if you can use 2H swords, Polearms or 1H Axes, you will never get them from the raid row of the weekly vault.
I can do a similar comparison for M+ loot tables, but I am too lazy to look up the information.
Weapon types DOES NOT MATTER. Axe vs Sword vs Mace is just a transmog/flavour thing. What matters is how many items in the loot table.
No, i want one handed as frost, that’s what i meant.
Just like how one handed is inferior for fury, two handed is inferior for frost.
But people wanted it back for some reason… Even though it literally does nothing for the rotation aside swinging one big weapon instead of two smaller ones.
The inconsequential garbage that people get so stuck up on is unbelievable. It’s literally irrelevant, and it causes loot problems for frost, there is no benefit and only downsides.
there used to be in classic, been playing warrior in classic so mixed it up.
Not this season except from the crafted ones.
There are older ones though and they usually have str and agi depending on class.
And it might not be that big of a problem looking at this raid with fewer weapons.
In shadowlands there were more weapons in the raid. sanctum had 3 2h 3 1h.
So there is a 50% chance that you get a weapon that you cannot use with your build because it disables your talents.
And that is the problem. You cannot activate those talents unless you are using the correct weapons.
A Mage will still be able to play their build with a staff or a 1h+off-hand.
frost dk and fury have to alter their talents and it does affect their gameplay.
Rogues, enhance, dh only have 2 weapons in the raid. And they can use their weapons without worrying.
Monk are in the same situation as casters. They can use 2h or dw 1h.
But they dont need to change anything in their build for it.
And honestly I am fine if they decide to allow casters and monks aswell to pick if they want 2h or 1h in the loot spec.
But they are probably gonna need to give caster 1h and off-hand bonus stats so it is worth it to go for them over a staff.
DW for frost and monk has the added bonus of letting you use two weapon enchants.
I do share the same opinion, as I’ve pointed out. In fact, those complaints were about cosmetics rather than gameplay, which we agree on : it ain’t changin’ a damn thing since rotations are the same.
do arms?