Another reason why Winter Queen's sister is most likely not Elune (PTR spoilers)

Community General Discussion
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It is pretty clear that when we refer to the unidentified sister of the Winter Queen, we refer to the leader/one of the leaders of the domain of Life (the Dream), since there are the following clues that suggest so: The Winter Queen isn’t fond of her sister, there is this Emerald Dream-Ardenweald antithesis, and then Ysera, a paragon of the Dream and Life, is her “sister’s pet”.
I have already made a topic explaining why it is Eonar who is the sister we are looking for, but let us stick to the new evidence as to why it is not Elune.
Prince Renathal refers to the Stonewright as a “wielder of Elu-” before getting interrupted in the latest PTR storyline, and two quests after we see her slaying dreadlords instantly, using a moon spell, similar to the magic of Ardenweald and Tyrande.
The book “Enemy Infiltration” suggests that beings of Death (either mortal souls or Shadowlands-born beings like the Dreadlords and the Stonewright) have a great distaste for the magic of Life, because of their opposite natures. We haven’t seen any being in the Shadowlands use the light-green druid magic, have we? No. The closest expression of druidism in the Shadowlands is Ardenweald, which is Death and not Life, and therefore there are two possibilities about Elune:

  1. She is the Winter Queen
  2. She is a First One, and Denathrius, being an Eternal One, taught the Stonewright how to invoke Elune and create souls for her stoneborn.

SUPER SPOILER: I have been debunked, it is Elune. However, here is another speculation which I have also commented below:

Some of us thought it would be Eonar, because, out of instict, we presumed that her sister would have to be her opposite, both in appearance and in nature- The Winter Queen and Ardenweald stand for, well, winter, Death, and Night, while Eonar and the Emerald Dream (to which Ardenweald is somehow linked) stand for summer, Life, and Day.

That Elune “did not abandon” her and that the powers of both sisters are night themed and not “opposite” or different means that they may have ruled Ardenweald together once. One thing is for sure, Elune was a member of the pantheon of Death, NOT of the equivalent of Life (if it exists), and for some reason, she left.

So where did she go? Although she is the Winter Queen’s sister, she seems far more powerful and linked to several different cosmic forces (she created the Naaru (Light), she protected Eonar in Elunaria (Life/Order), she is worshipped across all the universe, and she has power over Death and spirits (as we can see in many places in Legion). But she can’t be a First One, if she is the sister of an Eternal One, seeing how the First Ones created the Eternal Ones.

The answer is probably this: Xal’atath, a Void being who might well be a dreadlord infiltrator (which is why she was imprisoned) refers to her as an “upstart goddess”. “Upstart” refers to someone who got rich/powerful recently, indicating that she was once weaker and more restricted (like the Winter Queen), that she wasn’t always so powerful.

What if the First Ones called her to their side for doing something very good for the Cosmos (mabye imprisoning the Jailer), and she shares in their power and glory ever since? This would mean that she is still a First One, but without having been born one.

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True. Also what was she thinking when she had intercourse with Malorne the STAG? I am pretty sure that is just a Night Elf/Tauren myth. Otherwise she has had children wih every big stag she’s come across in the multiverse.

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You put spoilers then put the spoiler in the title?

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Should have just called it Winter Queen (PTR Spoilers)

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its strange if what you say is right… I mean, Why would the Covenants. Not death. have issue with the cycle of life and death and Elune being an avatar of life. Yes the people of Ardenweald and to covenants are citizens of death. But just as the forsaken, But you have to have been alive before becoming apart of the shadowlands first. Unless life was never meant to be apart of the cycle at all.

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I’ve always thought the winter queen’s sister was the archon

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In a way, all the Eternal Ones see each other as siblings. However, the Winter Queen refers to Ysera, a vassal of the Dream and Eonar, as her “sister’s pet”.
And many clueless people want to believe that this sister is Elune, despite the fact that her magic has more to do with Light, Arcane, and Death, than Life. Elune is said to have created the Naaru, Elune is present in the Shadowlands, Elune is worshipped across all the universe, Elune sems to be one of the so-called “First Ones” that we learned about in the Shadowlands.

This doesn’t make sense, and read the text above; Elune IS connected to Life, but NOT ONLY to Life. In fact she is connected to everything except for Fel and Void (from what we have seen). Come on, it will be far more interesting to learn that she is a First One (which means outside the Cosmological Chart) than to learn that she is something as low and insignificant as the Winter Queen’s sister (which would be inside the boundaries of the Cosmological Chart).

This is an opinion…I mean it is kinda obvious. I claim this is evidence. To some, it may not be. It is my interpretation. If I was saying real, important spoilers, the title would be different.

But this is not a speculation for the Winter Queen, it is a speculation thread meant to clarify the obvious fact that Elune is not something as low and restricted as the Winter Queen’s sister. I just used a detail from the PTR quests that most people wouldn’t notice or wouldn’t give a damn about anyway.

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Nope, it’s still a spoiler, whether it’s speculation or not.

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But unless you are sleepy, you can understand from the title that it is not a fact but an opinion.

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OK, if you are not going to change it I’ll just report it.

btw the words PTR spoilers give it away.

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What I am saying and coming from is that it is strange that the covenants and people of shadowlands would have a problem with Elune, due to what I mentioned above. Elune shouldn’t have have an issue with Nature and the cycle of life and death. But its strange that the Shadowlands have issue with her is what I meant. Given that people have to have been alive first to even end up in the shadowlands in the first place. Unless Life was never intented to be a part of the cycle in the first place

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spoilers …ohh noo

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I never said that ANYONE in the Shadowlands has a problem with Elune. I said that dead/death beings have a problem with Life, just as the Venthyr get burnt by the Light in Revendreth. The dreadlord book says that Life’s nature is “antithetical” to their own, which means exactly the opposite. Just as death magic harms the living on Azeroth, so does Life magic abuse the dead in the Shadowlands. What the Winter Queen wields is NATURE magic, but that doesn’t mean it is Life- it is Death. Both forces are natural, but they are not the same. Nature includes both life and death.
Even Ysera doesn’t use the green magic of Life after her death, but she uses the moonlight of Ardenweald instead.
My point is, Elune can’t possibly be in the “Pantheon of Life”, as that would mean her powers are solely connected to Life, and no one in the Shadowlands would use her powers if that were the case. Elune is either the Winter Queen (she fits thematically), or she is one of the creators, the “First Ones”.

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Sorry… Perhaps I got hung up on the wrong thing, But you did say the winter queen wasn’t fond of her sister, And that there was a line in the PTR that abruptly ended almost saying Elune’s name. She is either the winter queen as you said, But she is more a ‘‘first one’’ than any titan like Eonar would be if shes not. Since Eonar is a titan after all.

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People actually think Elune is Winter Queen’s sister? I was always under the impression that it was obvious that her sister is Eonar. Since Eonar directly buffed Ysera (And Alexstrasza), which would make sense as to why Winter Queen called Ysera “My sister’s pet”. Also from the Night Fae rep you buy “Memory of Eonar”.

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That could also make her sister Freya.

And I probably lean toward that being the case. If it was Eonar, then it would imply that The Eternal Ones are Titans themselves. But I don’t think that is the case. I think they’re more akin to Loken, Odir, Freya, and so on. Keepers meant to oversee and carry out the will of the Titans. The same Titans that once ordered The Shadowlands. And the same Titans that are known as The First Ones.

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The Winter Queen hating Eonar makes sense because Eonar is probably the main evil currently in WoW.

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Blizzard has already implied that, with Ion having said that the Jailer, who was the leader of the Death Pantheon, is a Titan plus-plus level. We know he had been stripped of many powers when he was cast away in exile, powers he is currently regaining. The Eternal Ones are supposed to be equals to the Titans. Also the Primus is said to have watched the same battle a million times so that he could improve his strategic abilities with the help of an ally (most likely Norgannon or Aman’thul).

Who told you that? What confirms that? The fact that there is order within the Shadowlands doesn’t necessarily mean that Order (capital “O”) intervened/created them. With your logic, Maldraxxus owes its chaotic nature to the Legion, and Bastion owes its light to the Light (capital “L”).
When we escape the Maw, Anduin says, when looking at the waystone, that it is made by a “different hand” than that of the Titans and that he knows it because he has studied them. Have you ever seen the snake symbolism or the monolithic and simple (undecorated) architecture in Titan facilities? Yes, Architecture varies from place to place in Azeroth, but they have the same celestial and gold-plate patterns. Oribos and Korthia have bronze plates, almost no decoration, and the pattern of the snakes, which can be seen on the Dark Portal. WIll you tell me the Titans created the Dark Portal too?

The First Ones are supposed to be something higher. A group to which all the Forces owe their existence, a group that resides outside the boundaries of the Cosmological Map. Plus in an interview they said that the First Ones are connected to various pantheons, including the Pantheon of Death and the Pantheon fo Order.

It isn’t the will of the Titans for mortals to go to the Shadowlands- their creations are meant to be immortal, made of iron or stone, the Titans are an enemy of the cycle. If the Eternal Ones were Keepers and the Shadowlands were under the Titans’ oversight, wouldn’t the Keepers on Azeroth know about the realms of Death? Would Odyn need to make a bargain with an unknown being to learn what happens in the Shadowlands?
And also, aren’t the Titans and their Keepers made of stone and iron? Yes they are. The Eternal Ones have their own unique flesh.

Now there is this disturbing detail that we managed to defeat Denathrius easily and that the Archon lost her key to the Jailer without much effort, but it is noteworthy that, unlike the Titans, the Eternal Ones share their power with their subjects, because they aren’t subjects at all- they are souls that they have sworn to protect and take care of. Denathrius, for instance, has created Renathal, the Curator, the Stonewright, and the dreadlords without materials but with his own thoughts, and he has distributed bits of his own being into the Harvester Medallions. The Archon may well have done the same for Bastion, and she is also arrogant and a bit of a pacifist.

And besides, the Titans being the First Ones makes no sense and it a simplistic and lame theory that would strip the new lore of interest.

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Elune herself raised Ysera’s spirit up to the sky in Legion and formed a constellation.

If Elune is the Winter Queen - why would she then act annoyed that Ysera was in Ardenweald?

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I think the so-called Death Pantheon is the equivalent of what Azeroth has with Odyn, Freya, Thorim, Hodir, Loken, and Mimiron. Same setup, different world.

I don’t think The Jailer is inherently more powerful than the others. Like Sylvanas, I don’t think the powers he has are his own. He gets them from the one he serves - Death.

When The Jailer says that “Death was never meant to be chained”, then I think it is a litteral meaning. The cosmic power that is Death is chained and locked away in The Maw. That is what The Titans sealed away and entrusted the Pantheon of Death to oversee. And that is what The Jailer sought to free and why he was banished, and it is that he gets his powers from. And the powers of Death are greater than those of any Titan alone.

We will see, but I doubt it. The way the Shadowlands is set up is so comparable to Azeroth. It is a system of Order, overseen by powerful entities with some relation to The Titans. And at the center of the whole thing is a theme of imprisonment.
It would be weird if Blizzard have constructed a group of entities known as The First Ones that are identical in behavior and purpose to The Titans, yet are not The Titans.

If it looks like a ducks, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

That’s a rather uncalled for manner of refute. Dial down the ego a bit, no offense. :unamused: