I was giving a go on a “A good war”, when I stumbled on this sentence:
Was Sylvanas right ?
“I believe the exiles of Gilneas will never forgive the Horde for driving them away. I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city. I believe the ancient divide between our allies in Silvermoon and their kin in Darnassus is not easily mended.” There was a smile on Sylvanas’s face. It was not a pleasant one. “I believe the Darkspear tribe hasn’t forgotten who drove them from their islands,” she continued. “I believe every orc your age remembers being imprisoned for years in filthy camps, wallowing in despair and surviving on human scraps. I believe every human remembers the tales of the terrible Horde that caused so much destruction in its first invasion, and I believe they blame every orc for that, no matter what your people have done to redeem yourselves. And I remember very well that I and my first Forsaken were once loyal Alliance citizens. We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin. I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance—not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms. And believing that, answer this, Saurfang: what use is delaying the inevitable?”By the spirits, she is cold.
I already posted this on the story forum for discussion, but I am interested in knowing what would you do if you would find yourself in Saurfang shoes ?
My take is:
My character has already lost, no matter what I would say she seems to counter everything.
Challenging to a mak’gora seems unlikely since, it seems there’s only a conversation between two people going on, so that’s out of the question for me.
What would you do ?
I really interested to know your approach on this scenario.
Honestly, mostly just that it’s an extremely cynical view and the argument is clearly slanted. She’s not laying out objective facts, she’s leading him to a conclusion, and he’s following along because that’s kinda just what he does. It also completely ignores numerous other factors, including the cooperation that has repeatedly occurred between the two sides.
Maybe she genuinely believes every word she’s saying, including the leaps of logic that take one from “There are tensions” to “there is only war.” Or maybe she’s just stringing him along because she wants him to work for her. It doesn’t really matter, in the end - it’s still a cynical, one-sided, altogether ignorant point of view.
“Soulless cynical sophistry spuriously siphoned from sinister sorrows, stoking suffering’s stifling snare to slowly strangle sunlight’s struggle to shine.”
It just kind of goes on like that until either the full extent of this thinly disguised power play is verbally dismantled for the emotional appeal that it is or until Mari is shot for opposing the great plan already in motion.
Firstly, Ly wouldn’t be in those shoes. She has a quite adamant “Don’t give a crap” point of view on the war.
But let’s, for the sake of discussion say she is.
She’d try pointing out, that the Alliance’s poor decisions are the leaders and politicians, not the commonfolk.
Theramore and Orgrimmar, while with some difficulties, was indeed a working thing.
People’s minds can be changed. It isn’t them that should suffer. But it is exactly them and only them that will suffer, and suffer tremendously so if there’s a war.
According to our spies they mostly just blame you for gillinass not the horde.
And if we give it back as a sign of good faith and a hopefull letter about letting old grievence’s die and working togather for a briger future would reduce hostilities.
Beside our spies tells us andiun got greymane wrap around his effeminite finger so revenge is unlikly.
Really?
You call those ruins a city?
Honestly i just let them have it but if you insist on keeping that pile of rubble i doubt the alliance will go to war over it.
I mean varian didnt declare war until after he saw the experminents you did on his people… You did stop those expermiments right?
I woudnt call a conflict less then two decade’s old ancient.
The blood elves are isolationists who only use the horde as meatsheild.
It is only because they need us that they send even the barest minimal of support.
As for your question.
This divide was the blood elves catching a bunch of spies in there lands and killing them.
Hardly worthy to hold a grude over.
Given that Lor’themar was planing to rejoin the alliance during garrosh reign i dont think there haterd for the alliance is that strong.
Personaly i think that the blood elves dont really care about anything but there parties in silvermoon and will happy use the alliance as meatsheilds rather then the horde if the alliance would be there neighbors.
Sure the “purge” of dallaran was unpleasent but it isnt something that would in silvermoons history be consider as anything but a minnor diplomatic incedent.
I also remember the many crimes we inflicted upon there people.
If we had won we would have slaughter every single one of them.
While the camps where horrible they didnt slaughter us when they could.
A cruel mercy meaby but a mercy none the less.
It also lead to thrall learning what he needed to save us from ourself, build ogrimar and started to learn how to live with the bloodthirst.
So sure it was horrible but as thrall teach’s us.
We deserved it for our crimes against life.
We must never be monsters again.
I use those memories to strenght my will against the darkness in all orcs.
It is the same reason why we settle in duratan.
The constant struggle reminds us and our childeren of how important self control is.
We need to be kept busy for our own sake.
We have several thousent orc’s in human orginazation that arent the alliance.
I dont think where as hated as you claim.
And you murder your alliance ally, work togather with a dreadlord and try to make peace with stormwind shortly after what the scourge did to lorederan.
Your reward was being curse to undead by the lich king.
The same lich king you spend your entire undead life plotting to kill.
You grew strong in the face of resistance and like all horde race’s because strong enough to stand against those who would hurt you, you gaint respect.
And with the boy-king in charge of the alliance, peace and offical recognision of your rulership of lorderan is only a request away.
Is there suchs a thing as permanent peace?
In one hunderd years from now the orcs and forsaken could be at war.
And how do you suggest we win this on the battlefield.
The alliance outnumber, outguns, out tech and out power us.
They have dreanei can who build space ships, gnomes who can build entire armies of steam powered robots, dwarves pathfinders, worgen stealth specialists, night elves who can hold of an army three times there size and human cannon fodder.
You want to trow away the lives of many horde soldiers in a war we arent prepared to fight?
No we shoud build our force’s for the war you fear.
Expand to the south of kelimdor and prepar for war.
Your plan will just get alot of us killed for the off chance of victory.
Why delay the inevitable?
So we can build up our force’s for the war to come.
The alliance has the advantage.
We shoud even that out.
We are in a weapons race warchief.
Not an open war.
Atleast not yet.
And we shoud take the time we have to build up our nation.