No Night Elf believe that anymore.
Wait and see, Wait and see, Wait and see is all we get from disneyzzard. So we wait and what we see? More and more crap towards one race.
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how do you people watch tv or enjoy story? this is how long running story works. the first avengers film introduced thanos in 2012 and then built him up for 7 years before he was finally defeated (twice) in 2019. well 2024 technically. thats how long running story works, something happens then consequences affect thing potentially for years to come. why is that a bad thing in modern times?
Because people are playing (To stick with your simile) the Avengers, sitting there being defeated for 5 years, we’re not just watching a story, we’re playing a part in it, and it’s not great to be playing the part of the sad sacks who lose everything, then get dragged by the nose for 5 years (With other people whining all the time about “OMG! Not more Night elves!”), to then get… that’s not quite clear at this point, at the very end of it.
Both Night elf fans and… non-fans want this storyline to be over, the fans because we can sorely use some good news for a change, and the non-fans so other races can finally get some spotlight. (And if there’s any justice, get kicked around to puff up some threat or another, while the Night elves sit on the sidelines going “Enjoy your ‘story focus’!”)
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In Midnight. I don’t want my Night Elves to be reunited as “scattered” tribe of elves. In fact I don’t want them to have anything to do with rest of the Azeroth till The Last Titan
I agree, mostly because most of the Elves that would gather there are, to put it bluntly, the ones that were kicked out of what we know now as Kaldorei society 10,000-odd years ago.
Yup, and I want to lay back, and eat popcorn when or if their civilization get’s screwed 
thats fair i supposed nelfs are stuck in the five year gap where only bad things happen. the example just helped get my point across 
Oh I wouldn’t mind that happening, with the Night elves leading the way for change pwning the stage.
So tired of night elves just showing up weak and ineffective so that Sylvanas or Garrosh, or Jaina or some blood elf mage can look cool.
I mean what happened to the kaldorei , experts of magic who could block and lockdown any mage and take em out - after 10k years of stifling arcane practice? - Wardens? Druids?
or about Highborne and Moonguard who were the most legendary magic fighters you know conquest of Kalimdor and the wonder workers of civilization and magic - the best of which were the Shen’dralar mind.
What about the Moon Priestesses, who wield the power of Elune/ you know the one who could create a shield that could block Sargeras’ blow, and call down stars - we’ve never seen them in combat in wow - only in WC3.
What about the druids? I can’t remember a druid in wow look dangerous. Except for the Cat druid, Thaon in Val’sharah, and then Malfurion in bear form during the Terror in Darkshore cinematic -that’s it.
This is the race that are the purest of the elves, and represent what elf means fully, the lore gives them the highest levels of magic in arcane, nature and divine, the greatest devotion, the deepest care, the most ferocious countenance, and the greatest heights. This is the race that defeated the legion… and they have ALL their components still around.
Druids, Mages [Highborne and Moonguard], Priestesses, sentinels and Demon Hunters - they are all still around.
Please tell me
- Why are night elves so crap in wow?
- Why can’t they beat anyone or defend themselves?
- Why are their forests so full of devastation? With druids that can heal this tuff but we never see them do it?
- Why are their cities only ruins? Darnassus was built in a couple of years, and that was before the Highborne returned - it’s been 14years since… can’t they do anything?
- They’ve got night warrior ritual, powerful new tree directly linked to Azeroth, the Well of Eternity and a freaking Goddess on their side, also got the most badas fel magic users in the world and still cant’ do anything well or cool
There is no cool in the night elves in game… all the cool stuff is in the books - all Malfurion’s great acts, Illidan’s great works, the Moonguard, the Sentinels, the Moon Priestesses…all in books. It’s like they change to different group in game.
They have all these elements, but they are all subdued… they don’t even look
They are basically to the elves, what the Zandalari are to the trolls… they should be showing the other elven groups… this is what you g et when you do things rightly- this is what a truly great forest or night elven city is like without addiction or hubris, and this is how you wiled the powers of nature, Elune and the arcane well.
But instead they’re pathetic. I don’t understand how they can fail to impress all the time.
The best example, the model of Elven civilization, the model of elven harmony, the model of elven devotion. You have to show the fruit of doing right, of restoring your balance… this is the best state for growth.
They were grossly imbalanced before at the end of Azshara’s reign, and while they wouldn’t use the arcane during the long vigil, they can now, and should be showing how you to do Elven society correctly, whether it is in the city or in the forest. And no , it should only be in a pure forest setting, they should have their temples and their cities it is part of them… some people feel just because they got severely imbalance at the end of the pre-sundering era, that the long vigil era meant that they don’t do these things any more.
They are wrong, they didn’t do civilization or arcnae magic because they were busy with the long vigil and needed to stop the legion from returning, not because they all of a sudden don’t do that anymore.
What they don’t do anymore is that arrogance and that addiction.
They should be model elf, model arcane usage, responsibly and powerfully as the oldest and most fervent users, model respect for and reverence for magic and for the forest, and model elven devotion and beauty. This is how you do magic, and live in harmony with your surroundings. You should see exquisite beautiful buildings, like the stones are alive, with lush beautiful gardens, treants and animals about the very best. Beautiful jewels represent a people that can unearth treasures and use them elegantly without ripping the land apart or living for these things.
In contrast to say the blood elves, whose cities would be lush, , lots of gold, gold statues, ornaments, over jewelled, where status, and power and wealth matter, not as free as the night elves, but not as bad as humans either.
.
Let the Nightborne and blood elves be imbalanced and arrogant, lopsided, the Nightborne are literally a night elf society where only magic matters, there is no priesthood, there is no druidism to centre and balance the people, and the Withering is the end results, as well as the back stabbing court behaviour we saw form the likes of Melandrus and some of the leading families - they’ll still be powerful, because the blood elves seek power, Nightborne are still trapped mostly in that legion period mindset, the most unhealthy time period for the kaldorei, but you should see the benefit of the night elf way, as the eldest and purest of their race, we should see in them how it is done, its should be desirable.
Currently it is far from all of these.
That’s the sort of good new I want, an inverse of the bad treatment, reveresal fo the crappiness, the sort of leaders of the elves, the truly centred ones.
I swear, the worse thing to happen to night elves was making the entire race playable and joining the alliance. it should have been a faction of young kaldorei wanting to see the world and experience life outside the isolation of the Long Vigil, choosing to side with the alliance but the main race, would be separate. The 10k year old ones, aloof from both horde and alliance and above their squabbles.
5 years where only bad things happen? In their lore, it’s 10,000 years where only bad things happen.
And in wow, only bad things happen - they went from losing a global civilization, to being homeless wanderers.
People forget that night elves have lost FAR more htan a world tree and 1 city.
- They lost an entire global civilziation
- They have had 2 genocide massacres
- They lost the Well of Eternity, their cradle and source of thier strength
- Then they lost Nordarssil, their protection and post-sundering source of Immortlaity
- Then they lost hte forest lands they held to the north - first to the druids which went international, then to the orcs and tauren who just took over most of it.
- They lost Edlre’thalas to Ogres and demons
- THen they lost Ashenvale, Darkshore and finally another world tree
- They lost Darnassus.
- They’ve lost nearly every meaningful battle against the horde and have almost always come off as weak and needy, never strong in wow, the polar opposite of the novels.
So if you tell me that a tree is all night elves gonna get from this is a tree to replace Teldrasisl, I’m like seriously… hello? what about thier immortality, their empowerment, the Well of eternity? any form of their civilziation - i mean they had 3 cities and now they have 0, what about their lands and forests, now in enemy hands?
But the demon hunters and Highborne as well as Moonguard are back… so to are the Wardens, but we’ve not seen any of these participate in the wars the night elves lost, nor did we see them be written to bring any to bear. The worse are the moon Priestesses, didn’t see them use any of hte powers they had, sure, some were round, - they looked weak and ineffective, like pretty much every night elf.
Yay.
So you should be used to it then
They’ll likely build a city over time or do you want instant story progression
How many night elves you need to change a lightbulb?
None, every single one will cry and lament about lightbulb not being important enough
Yeah, no thank you. I’m a massive fan of all things Elven and I’d rather not see some weird purity spiral where it is insinuated that only the ways of the Night Elves are ‘correct’ and ‘righteous’ whereas the other Elven races are somehow ‘lesser’ or ‘more flawed’ than the Night Elves.
If anything, the excessive focus on the druids, sentinels and their forests is exactly what led them astray at the expense of other aspects of their society. Exiling all practitioners of the arcane was one of the biggest mistakes that they ever embraced and I’m pleased to see that finally falling to the side of the road.
I’d like to see more of Kalimdor reclaimed and more of the edge that once existed for the race in general to be brought back, though I have doubts when there’s suddenly a lot of talk about doing away with many of their proud traditions.
It kinds of feels like there will be a big dwarven theme as well in the future.
wich is a good thing imo. Blizz isnt able to write night elfs well. They used to be a strong xenophobic race. But blizz writes them as if they are helpless tree hugging hippies. OH and somehow they also arent nocturnal anymore.
Better to focus on other stuff so they cant keep butchering nelves
I really hope it will put them in the background for a little while.
The Dwarves and other races have my sympathy then, if you expect Blizz to suddenly know how to write good stories for those races (But somehow not for Night elves), sorry, there’s a limit to optimism…
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Like they’ve ever needed to do that . They can magic one into existence, they have the most magical race in the game here, with people capable of doing feats no one has seen for over 10k years.
If blizzard wants.
Given how we are still waiting for Gnomeragan, I’d take an instant city any day.
Besides they have “magic” -
Look, Darnassus was built in less than 3 years (possibly 2), and that was before the Highborne returned and the night elves allowed themselves to use arcane magic again.
Well, whose to say a city can’t be built in far less with highborne to aid the priests and the Ancients? All the original cities were built with highborne+Shen’drlaar working together with both arcane and nature - so that Suramar you love so much and that Zin’Azsarhi in warbringesr Azshara
These: were built like that by these people, and if they were great works, you can bet the Shen’dralar were involved - as they are the ones that processed the Queen’s top projects, often in secret we are told.
Another option is that a revamped Eldre’thalas is the city… I mean it’s been 14 years since Cata right, and in Cata we help the Highborne get the city back, so we know the city was cleared in 2010 era… it’s been 14+5 (time skip) , 19 years since then, anything could have happened, for all we know the place could be pristine again, cleaned up, magicked up, redesigned, enhanced designed, I mean these were the wonder workers of the kaldorei empire, and they have the Ancients, druids, and other Highborne from the Darnassians who go back to the
It could be that they transport he city to Amirdrassil, or are able to duplicate it or Suramar - the night elves are the builders of these places, and their expertise and knowledge is still around. Do you know Ancients record every thing they remember… and if they die, all the knowledge is passed to their seeds, and did you know the Shen’dralar in addition to processing the Queen’s top projects, were a city university/research city and they kept all the lore books of the empire, so the knowledge of the kaldorei empire, all the wonders, all the lost stuff, those lore keepers would have it in their heads, or in crystals in addition to books. Now most of the libraries were lost in the reclamation of dire Maul, but those are just the hard copies, the keepers of knowledge would have them around. We are told Elves do not forget, they have eidatic memories, and they’d have found other means in addition to record their life’s work.
What this means is there is at least a feasible lore reason to have magic up a city for them.
but let’s face it, when have blizzard ever needed a pre-exsiting reason in lore? They can just as easily write one. Whether, it’s teleportation, duplication, rapid construction (through time displacement and temporal magic manipulation) - .e.g create a time bubble where time flows much faster on the side compared ot the outside, and what could take 3 years or 50 years, can happen in a few months. - and 50 years is nothing to them.
I mean they could write anything.
Thing is night elves need to show they are good and they are serious, they love their tree, they love their people, they love their goddess, and they love their magic, I don’t think night elves would build anything less than the very best to honour Elune, to honour the sacrifice of countless of night elves fallen, to represent the very best their people can build, can grow, can create - all their factions would be on board doing their best, druids for the forests, priests for the temple, Highborne for the city - they would do their best work to honour this tree and the world, and would likely set themselves to defend it and whatever blessings it gives.
Just having a tree gifted to them, and then do nothing to improve themselves or make the best of it, build a stunning city for their people, organise themselves, be motivated nowt o really make things work, this is what I expect.
Don’t see why night elves always have to be the one to be shown “how it’s done” - but I think you missing what I mean.
They can do the showing of “how it is done” for a change, I mean they are the longest lived race from Azeroth, and done the most, reached the highest heights in booth arcane and nature, civilization and preservation of the world by lore -I mean one shouldn’t expect anything less from them.
And they have the expertise around for it to… not only that they’ve achieved a level of harmony and synergy the other elven factions lack… they really should be leading the way. As the parent race, with the most experience and accomplishments under their belt.
We are at the point where Blizzard need to be showing night elves as great again in multiple areas… Amirdrassil was given to them, nurtured by Azeroth herself, they need to do some incredible things for themselves, that show they are not the losers we’ve been seeing, and have turned the around from the medioocre, being a lot more like teh great race that pulled together to pull of 2 legion defeats and stewarded Azeroths most peaceful and prosperous era.
Having the best elven civilization around is one way, and I’m not just talking beautiful buildings and temples, I mean character, harmony, synergy, like the unity they had in the pre-sundering era before they went out of balance.
I just don’t think it’s right that blizzard put flaws in the blood elves nightborne and a serious handicap on the void elves (traded off for their power, ), while the one group has had their various faction separated by ideals, united, free of both corruption and addiction, , diverse in disciplines and belief yet united with a drive for progress and development (Highborne), discipline and devotion (priests), harmony and balance (druid) - can or will continue to be the worse off Elven group.
And let’s not forget these are the original elves, and the oldest continuous group and the most accomplished. Remember, while the Nightborne are as accomplished as the Highborne, their magical fighting skills lag behind the Moonguard, and they are missing the developed druidism and Elunism of the kaldorei - but they are sub-race, an allied race, a smaller group, this is understandable.
What fans really want to see is night elves phenomenal again, like they were alluded to be in War of the Ancients and Warcraft 3, only to come play wow and see them suck… they need to make up for this in multiple ways, in how incredibly the night elves bounce back and re-establish after the War of Thorns, in how they handle themselves in fights, whether with the alliance or the forces of Azeroth or against enemies that seek their land, like the warsong orcs and any rogue horde races (or even rogue alliance ones). you have to how them impressive.
night elves are by lore supposed to have people at the height of the arcane arts, druidic arts, priestly devotion and power, fel arts (demon hunters), with the story of winning so major impossible battles and the worlds most advanced civilization under their belt and it’s most tranquil forests.
You can’t have just ruins and grassland or devastation to show fort hat throughout wow for the night elves and expect people to think they are amazing or believe the lore in the story books. you have to show it.
And for once, after all the crap they’ve gone through, that is exactly the sort of thing that can balance it imo.
Well they did suffer for it, they have the wisdom of that, and they have arcane practitioners who kept on going, the Shen’dralar and Moonguard communities are part of the balance they’ve achieved.
But no, this is not about being some weird purity spiral, it’s that night elves do have the experience, they’ve learned the biggest lessons, and lived through it all, Currently with Druids, Priests, Highborne and DHs no longer enemies - they’ve got a breadth and width no other elven group has, nor has the scope of, this has to show. They are the oldest, and while the nightborne sub race is just as old, it didn’t have the experience of the druids and priests living in post sundering world, it s experiences are similar to the Shen’dralar , except they beat addiction the hard way, retaining all their skills and knowledge which the lore tells us is phenomenal.
There isn’t a single elven group as experienced, with the range and diversity, nor as harmonious or united, nor as accomplished… in each area… the Nightborne are as accomplished civilization wise as the night elves ever were, but they are mutated by chronic addiction, out of balance still on a societal level, even though the druid Valewalker fixed their bodies. Thalassians did de-volved and started from scratch again, they’ve done an amazing job, but they haven’t reached what the kaldorei have done, They are also more balanced than the Nightborne, but are seriously lacking in the nature department, they are also smaller scaled and more humanised - which in some ways is a plus, but in others is a minus
Yes, it’s about showing how good the night elves are. And I think getting a piece of the best bits of both their civilization and their forest life and skills is how to go, + empowerments.
I can’t see how being a night elf + Elune, + Moonwells/Well of Eternity + World tree/Emerald dream and having demon hunters isn’t some serious mojo power for your priest, mage and druid classes. - but have nothing to show for it and constantly get beaten…
Show them do Elves the way elves are to be done, near perfect, and having learnt from the past - no more imbalanced arcane society which led to hubris and addiction, and no more imbalanced druidic only living, which just doesn’t have the power or development needed to keep pace with the sort of forces night elves need to defend again.
With Moonguard/Highborne, Moon Priestesses, Druid factions and Demon hunters - this is a powerful ensemble lore wise, then throw in Wardens - that’s some serious elite class power.
That’s not really quite it.
It’s because night elves launched a formidable race in lore and game, then went to pure softies with no bite.
Night elves have always been benevolent, soft types that have this totally opposite fierce badass side.
They’ve always been a race of 2 extremes, contrasting , opposite ends. Arcane and nature, serene and fierce, highly civilised and savage, like a violent storm but like peaceful summer day with the wind blowing coolly
- But in wow: You got serene but no fierce
- You got passive savage and no highly civilised
- You got vulnerable moments but no invulnerable powered ones.
- You got nature, but hardly any arcane (from priests, druids or mages)
- You got the forests but only ruined cities
- You got the defeats but not the victories
- You got night elves being lame but never being badass
At - least before Legion - which is most of wow.
Problem is in wow they didn’t want to write them well before Legion - because of the horde - they were alliance, and good night elves in story = more people playing alliance. Except now the horde vastly out numbers the alliance at the end game, so…
But then after Legion, what did they do?
- They took their civilization assets in-game and a visually presented powerful mage faction and sent it to the horde
- they then gave them their biggest humiliation since the War of the ancients and their biggest ever defeat period.
- Then some weird choices: a warfront in Darkshore that achieved nothing, but was their first canonical victory, but it doesn’t seem so in game, because both factions can win, and only those who look at tweets would know in the lore the night elves won that.
- They had Illidan, Malfurion and Tyrande together again for the first time, but did nothing with them in game to mirror WotA - what a missed opportunity
- Then Tyrande heads to SL, but Malfurion, doesn’t go after her to help her? - he being the druid maestro, after she helped him in Val’Sharah?, and then he is absent from the Emerald dream, - he’s the nature guy, not her, she’s the priestess… arcane/holy/void girl.
See what happened… so what are we going to get?
- Are we going to see a badass Malfurion and Tyrande do some really cool and really powerful stuff?
- We going to get an at least equally incredible presentation of their civilization?
- We going to actually see their mage faction get a focus patch where we truly see what the lore say s about in on all the levels they’re supposed to be good at - like we saw with the Nightborne?
- We going to see the sentinels ever be badass again like they were in WC3?
- We going to see druids really being fierce like their cat/bear forms suggest? only see Thaon in Val’sharah and Malfurion in the Darkshore cinematic look dangerous as druids in all of wow.
- Ever going to see NPC Moon Priestess and Balance druid casters show how powerful they are in battle?
- WE saw the Moonguard being powerful, but at the time, they lost to a much bigger force and were not aligned wit the Darnssians, will we see that?
- Will we see the return of some cool features, like their immortality and the Well of eternity in use and the power of Elune’s dark side , and light side - since we don’t see that either.
Amirdrassil is the first thing on that list that we have seen come back for them, and yet, they did not look impressive. When have they looked impressive?
- Tyrande fighting Sylvanas in the cinematic
- Tyrande confronting the horde after acquiring the Night
- Malfurion in that one shot in bear form for the Darkshore cinematic
- Zin’Azshari in Azshara Warbringers
- Thaon Moonclaw in action in Val’Sharah
- Prince Farondis in action in Azsuna
- Illidan Stormrage on Borken Shore, CoEN and Argus
- Maiev Shadowsong in the Warfront and in the heritage questline
- Spellblade Aluriel and Elisande in the nighthold
- Suramar City
- Black Rook Hold
- Val’Sharah Forest
- Warden’s Vault
Almost all of these were in Legion, and majority were neutral locations/dungeons.
That’s current year writing for you. They hated Malfurion because if we are being honest he made her look like a dumb teenager up until WoD. Then Legion happened where they tried to fix her by turning him into an idiot, cause let’s be honest, bad writers can’t really make a character look intelligent or just having improved attributes unless they make everyone else around them total idiots. You see that in movies a lot these days, sadly.