No Damage Output to burst fast, no Survivability, CC useless in lower brackets.
One Insignie vs. trillion Stuns! Go in the Match get Stun after Stun, Silence after Silence make Zero Damage and Die faster as you can say what a terrible Spec and Class balance!
Thx?
but isnt it okay that some classes / specs are harder to play than others? Its the same in almost every game out there? Some weapons are easier to use, some heroes are easier to play, some characters are easier… Maybe instead of wanting to be the best at the spec from day 1, actually put in the time, learn, watch guides, understand your spells, and you will in time if you stick to it, be good at it.
But those things usually do go hand-in-hand right?
I don’t know if you watched the AWC, but arcane mage was played there… In lobbies you will most likely see fire or frost. Why? Because the average player probably don’t know how to utilize arcane mage, so they don’t…
And that is my point… Not every class / spec should be equally playable by all… That would be a dull game design if I could play holy priest ONLY for 10 years and then log demo lock and be equally good at it…
Feral druids has also for as long as I could remember been one of those specs that are rarely seen, but when played correct, does a LOT of damage and hard to kill …
Are pals or rets? I believe all 3 mage specs are A tier in both PVE and PVP, while rets might be up there, but holy pallys are B tier in pvp… So you can’t just say “Rets are better than mages”, because thats really not the case. They might be in the right hands, but considering mage are almost always A or above with 1 spec in all areas, ret have 1 season thats better, which will always go back and forth…
And usually it is. If a class is easy to play with high output it will be in the ladders, if its harder to play with high output its not going to be as represented.
How many ret paladin teams did you see in the last AWC? From the games I watched, I didn’t see any. I did however see mage teams… So by your logic, everyone would be running rets right?
Because almost no games are flat like that, and if they are they will be dull… CS have weapons that are harder to use than others, LOL has champions that are harder to play than others, same with Warcraft 3… So why should all classes be equally easy to play? Each have different builders, power ups, ramps, cast times etc. etc.
But then the conversation is going to be very one-dimensional… You ask about time investment vs. output… You are comparing 1 dps with 3, so I would say if you could EVER only play one of them, I would put my money on mage, as the chance of input and output would be greater. But talking of only 1 season and 1 aspect you will never be able to elevate the discussion.
Because you can’t only look at DPS? If you ONLY look at damage output you would be doing every class a massise disservice. The mage utility compared to rets are also a benefit… So are we talking only damage output? Or are we talking the class?
Are we talking a random mage vs. a random melee? because then you also have to take into account if the players are
I don’t see how it makes it different that its open world rather than arena? Ask any warrior how they feel playing against a mage, ask any melee other than DH tbh… How do you catch a ranged dps that can slow, push you away, stun and sheep you? Oh freedom? yeah, mages can steal that…
Are you honestly trying to argue that frost mage has a complicated rotation and or gives you no output? You have maybe 5-6 buttons to press and you could be doing pretty solid…
They really don’t… And again, the game is not just dps… you can’t just go “Omg, rets do more dps than mage!! BUFF MAGE!!!”
Every class brings utility, some classes are dps heavy, but lacks in group utility, survivability etc. while some are less dps heavy but bring a lot of utility… Mages are one… Int buff, mass barrier for group, timewarp, sheep, dragon breath, knockback etc…
As a whole, your message is super aggresive. What are you defending? You want to say, everything is fine, just shut up and gitgood? I am not the first to say that WoW has got design problems. The game hast lost 8 mln consumers since 2010. This is huge. Class balance and design is one of the issues. If you dont agree, ok. Why are you here then?
I dont talk about chances. It doesn’t matter what was the balance in previous season or expansion. It is right now. I dont see any problem comparing 1 spec DPS vs 3 spec DPS. They should be all somewhere equal in this matter. Retpals dps is higher than any other class, not only mages. Check Sim rating. On average retpals do better than most classes. Check warcraftlogs ratings.
Okey, take an instance in which you want them compared.
How come pals utility is worse than mages? Explain yourself, please.
PvP geared? There are no specific stats concerning PvP as it was once in WoW.
Really? Arena is 2vs2 or 3vs3. One on one is different. Srry, bro.
Haha… It was like many years ago when it was problem. Since then all classes has got lots of mobilty skills. Mage is easily killable within one stun. Mage has got only castable sheep and a lot of slow, which can be easily purified.
It is harder than pals. That is for sure. The output of rets rotation in terms of dps is easier, less punishing and higher in numbers than any mage spec. I am sure about that, cause I have played all of them. Though it is highly arguable which mage spec is better in this domain.
What is “pretty solid”? More than tank? I may say that mage is playable. Thats all.
I gave you numbers. You gave me nothing, just bare implications, that mages dont have any problems.
Okey, utility…
I may continue. But every fight with pals is like get a stun and be dead.
I am returning to my question… Why are you here and what do you want? This is mage forum branch. There are lots of dissapointed players here. Check US forum, same there. Why do you care? What do you want to convince me of?
First of all, look at your own replies before talking about being “aggressive”, we are on a forum to discuss… you replied to me, so if you don’t want to have a different opinion than your own, don’t start a conversation with me? Go talk to people who all think rets should get nerfed and mages buffed?
Of course it matters. Because if you only look at now all the time, you will see mages getting buffed, then people say “mages do too much dps!!” then mages get nerfed, then DH does too much people will yell “NERF!” etc…
The mage spec is not bad, just because 1 spec does more dps, thats the same in every game… You will never be able to balance everything based on 100% equality…
I already did if you would read my message. Sheep, mass barrier, barrier on a 30 sec CD, ice block, knockback, int buff, invisibility, dragon breath, ring of frost, frost nova, slows, decurse, near death proc that saves them, they can blink out of a stun (Good against tree boss in WCM), you can time your combustion procs with Sun King’s Blessing…
What does rets bring to the table utility wise?
Steed, Bubble, a shield, lay of hands, glory and cleanse… BoP and freedom can in PVP instances be dispelled and or even stolen… And an aura?
If they spec into it they can also bring a CC.
Comparing the utility of the two, how many of the rets utility spells benefit the entire group vs. mages?
I dare you to go into pvp with little to no versatility… You will see you will get squished pretty fast 
Of course, so it will be easier for a mage to kite a melee? Like if a melee struggle against a mage in arena, how does it make it easier for them 1v1 in open world?.. Like really?..
mate… you said open world… Now you talk purify? so mages are struggling against melee AND a healer? xD Again, it shows you dont really play pvp… Cus no… mages are not “easy to kill in one stun” xD They can literally blink out of it
So by that logic, because an easier spec exists, the other spec is now harder and deserves a buff?
I have never seen any list or actual gameplay wise, say mages a sub A tier… So if you are playing worse than a tank, maybe its because you aren’t fully utilizing the spec?
Can use 1 at a time… When is your mount speed reeeally relevant? So absolute numbers doesnt matter, what they do does.
Which will cost both their uptime on DPS and mana… Mass barrier is used on boss fights like the last one in BRH or Everbloom to mitigate damage. good luck using WoG on a full party at once.
Now we are comparing mages vs. ret paladins, bringing other classes in doesn’t make sense… Then I could start saying shamans also has healing to say WoG doesn’t matter… 15% vs. 30% is a LOT…
HoJ can be dispelled? Sheep can too, but sheep can be re-applied and on multiple targets, so you can sheep one, and then sheep another (the first will break) so more utility than the HoJ.
The disorient is meant as either an interrupt or to allow CC, not to last full duration. That would never be the intention in PVE or PVP. If you use Dragonbreath to keep it up, you are not utilizing it correct.
Blink out?.. if you die in a HoJ you’re not playing correctly… A ret shouldn’t really be able to connect to you.
Am I not allowed here just because I’m writing from my druid? So I can not have a mage alt? Would my views all of a sudden be accepted if I switched character to one of my mages and replied?
Again, YOU replied to MY comment. Not the other way around…
Now that you like numbers so much:
Top pvp players:
Ret: 10.997
Mage: 19.646
If you sort for 3000CR+ you know what spec is the ONLY spec there? Arcane mage.
Looking at wowmeta .com
We can see for all percentiles what spec is the top with a median max point? Fire mage.
Fire mage: 89.9
Ret is 4th with 80.48
All percentiles to 90th percentile fire mage is 1st and ret is 4th, on the 90th percentile fire mage is still first, but ret is 5th… In the 95th percentile ret drops down to 7th… Same for 99th… In the 100th percentile ret is 6th… And guess what? Fire mage is STILL 1st…
Even if you filter by dungeon in all percentiles fire mage is ABOVE ret in ALL dungeons…
For raiding in all percentiles ALL three mage specs are ranked higher than ret paladins? So if ret paladins are this OP damage spec that brings tons of utility, why are they played less and ranked lower than mages in all aspects of the game? Explain please
Topic not closed? Its clear to see you are a 1500 max exp PVP player… Do you think its for fun that PVP vendors and PVP gear exist? oh why do you think PVP players actually use verse as a main stat? Like tell me you don’t know pvp without telling me you dont know pvp xD Case closed.
I did… If you can’t kite a melee as a mage, you are just not good at your class… Case closed.
Freedom can be stolen by the mage… Are you trolling? Like do you even have a clue how to pvp as a mage? Oh wait… your max exp is 1500… you dont… Case closed…
I don’t have to main a mage to be in here Just because you can’t argue against facts, doesn’t mean you need a buff.
I did, apparantly you’re the only one that doesn’t see mage top tier… Even numbers speak for my case. Trolling. Case closed.
Bro no… Your BLINK can remove the stun?.. Are you trolling? xD Do you even know pvp??? And did you actually read what I wrote?
Let me help you out again since you apparantly cant read:
here you go, remember to read slowly and read the (the first will break) part Troll.
Hahahaha I knew it, you have no clue xD DB into sheep… Frost nova? Ring of frost? Do you know you can fake a kick? Mate, please stop pretending you know how to pvp when its clear you dont. Case closed.
No… If you play BLINK instead of Shimmer, you can blink out of it… Like PLEASE for the love of god learn your own class before speaking… This is embarrasing…
I do, but apparantly you dont xD This is SO embarrasing for you
Like literally read the spell blink, I will help you here “Teleport you forward 20 yds or until reaching an obstacle, and FREES YOU FROM ALL STUNS AND BONDS.” holy damn this must be embarrasing for you… Telling me I dont know, when you’re so bad you think its a bug xD xD xD looooooooool
pvp leaderboards
Ah of course, your source is the only good one. Every other source that lists mages as A tier, is bad and wrong. Mate, just learn your class…
Yes you were. And its kinda stupid logic. I wasn’t aggressive you just can’t handle facts and would rather sit and cry about stuff you don’t know anything about clearly. Case closed.
I literally wrote GOOD at it… Where did I say BEST? or TOP? maybe follow your own suggestion and READ before spewing out these troll messages?
Mate you have no idea what you’re talking about… Do your own homework instead of pretending to be knowledgable when clearly you have 0 clue… My mains m+ rating is higher than yours and I have more pvp exp on both of my mage alts than your highest exp… So instead of this trolling, please read your spells, learn your own class instead of crying on forums… Its embarrasing…
You can even go Watch the MDI from yesterday… just watch the first match… Both running mages, but no I am sure you know better than Echo that ret paladins are better in all aspects and mages suck hahahah
Case closed.
I am not a PvP player. I dont go to arena, I dont have PvP gear or PvP talent build. I am not acknowledged of some PvP perks of the abilities. I never cared and I will not. And I stated it earlier:
Resume
The reason I am here is to add and say that mages has got design problems. I am not the only one who states that. It is based on my playing experience, my research and opinion of many other mages, that you can read here or on US forum. So I believe that matter is closed: mages do have concerns (objectively this topic is about that) and devs should dive into it, otherwise they may lose some players.
So the next question is where mages do have design problems. Is it local (for minority) or mass player? Is it PvE or PvP? Is it utility or dps or other stuff?
Well, these questions are highly controversial. And all of them need research. PvP (arena and else) domain is super small comparing numbers who actually involved into the game and pvp players. Assuming you are right, and mages are good in PvP, there is still core player base who has got discomfort with the class.
What can we (who are not satisfied) do about that? Well, I spend 4 month trying to figure out fire mages rotation, before writting anything on the forum. At some point I said stop, I am not ready to invest more time to understand baseline gameplay for a mage. So I went to the forum and made my call. I found players who actually agree with me. So now it is devs call to decide whether they should do something about it. If they want to keep the audience they have to work it out. It is that simple.
Now. Why am I so frustrated with your replies? You come here and say: well, mages are A - tier, so gitgood. And I was trying to explain myself, that it is not the issue. Mages do have design problems, because minority of ppl would invest as much time as I did to gitgood (4 month and many play hours, not just 2-3 hours weekly or daily). That is what I call bad game design. And the fact is that WoW objectively lost half of their audience from 2010 to 2014 based only on official blizzard information.
And you just like: well, everywhere mage is A-tier, arena, M+, raid. My answer is no, because there many players who are not satisfied (check US forum, huge topic about that), statistics is highly controversial, so I cant just objectively say that mages are whatever tier.
I do agree with you that mages do have strengths, but they are offset with core gameplay issues. I checked pals gameplay and found it much easier with higher numbers. That is wrong for the class balance, as I feel punished for choosing mage at first place.
And arena is the domain where gitgood is the only road to the top. Meanwhile, core gameplay issues should be resolved. If you feel fine, good. Then dont undermine those who doesnt feel good. I am not here to say nerf pals or rogue or whichever class. I am here to say I have problems playing mage. Being a dev you cant just say gitgood or dont play. And it is what you say. And I am pretty tired making my point: why are you here? what are you defending? That you are good and we are not? Okey, but the MMO that loses audience surely have to think about it.
End of story. Some comments next
Can be stolen. Sure. But you tried to drag me into mage vs. melee + Healer conversation. No, you will not.
Sure. Be here. Was not the point. You asked if harder class should be buffed. My answer was yes. That is what mage forum is about. You are highly welcome here unless you undermine other players experience by saying gitgood. Especially if mage is not your main char.
Fire mages (in the best observed state) are not that great in dmg to bosses lacking up to 18% of dps from the best and more than 10% in 6 encounters out of 9. So, according to this stat you can legaly improve fire mages ST dps by 5% and they will not be even the best.
I dont see how these numbers support you PoV.
Didn’t know about that. Checked the tooltip. Blink and Shimmer are different in this. Thank you. I will keep that in mind.
No, it is not. I dont know everything. Bug is the only about WM boss. And I assumed that Shimmer and Blink are actually the same. And Blink even had 2 charges back in Wotlk.
Once again this was not obvious. Thank you.
Was not the point. Source is bad when you cant check and deep dive in it. Ppl used to think that sun goes round Earth. Well it appeared that all of them were wrong.
I compared numbers, and metas db is strange. Their top observed pals dps is 30k lower than from wlogs, which can be easily checked from exact battlelog. So my question is what is metas sample, is it normalized or not, how median is affected by this difference., how does that affect tier list.
Meanwhile I checked top observed dps on every boss in Amir (m) and Amir (Hc). Mages are not top. So how come they are a-tier? Fair question.
You literally said BEST. Check it out:
This is the aggression I was talking about. Your point is gitgood which undermines other player experience.
Then don’t talk about it? Why are you pretending to know about pvp then?
You said:
Which is false… Why are you arguing with me if you have no clue about PVP? It shows that you don’t and its embarrasing…
Nah you were here trying to tell me I said things I never did, just like here:
Because I never did. I was talking about the classes and how different classes have different levels and he should learn to be GOOD at it. So you are just here to either troll or argue for the sake of arguing, spreading false information and a narrative that you call “facts” are simply not true and I have proven to you multiple times that you have no idea what you are talking about.
You will NEVER have a class that is so balanced that everyone will like them, there will always be someone that complains about a class…
That is a you problem though?
Same here:
I didn’t say “gitgood” mages ARE A tier, your feelings doesn’t matter to facts… I told you, watch the MDI… Mages are being used in high end content in all aspects of the game, if its too complicated for YOU or YOU don’t want to invest time into learning it, its a YOU problem… I said from the start, for ME it would be a bad game design if you can just switch class and be equally as good at it from the start, that would deminish every competitive aspect of the game… Why is Pikaboo considered good? Well because he has played rogue so much and know every small detail about it… Now imagine everyone being able to play it at the same level… That would eliminate everything skill based…
Again, thats a YOU problem… What you will see however, is being equally good at ret and mage, the mage will get more invites to high end stuff, because the class is overall more preferred to have in the group. I proved it multiple times, you just go “I don’t care about it! I have spoken to people they agree! mages are bad!!” no they aren’t, they are good, and just because you disagree with every website, MDI, AWC, streamers, numbers, it doesn’t make yours facts. Case closed.
Ah, so there really is no cap closure… and you said MELEEE and not RET. And then all of a sudden you tried turning it around trying to make me look stupid because you went “Omg? freedom? hellooo???” yeah. Mage shouldn’t have a problem against melee in a 1v1 open world content. If they do, its a skill issue. Case closed.
I didn’t… I encouraged someone to learn and improve YOU however came in and undermined ME and saying I was wrong, and wasn’t allowed here in mage forum, like who are you? Who gave you the right to decide if I can be here or not? Like calm yourself mate, like it or not, I can be in here as much as you. So I will kindly ask you to move away from me with your entitled “Only mage mains can be in here!!” when YOU yourself have tried to undermine me the entire time.
I just showed you both the PVP and the PVE aspect of the game, where mages were ranked the highest spec If you knitpick only damage to say mages are bad, again thats just you not understanding the game or lacking it. Almost every website, forum, etc. will have mages highly or highest ranked. Case closed.
Yeah then maybe don’t try to act like you do?
Then why are you acting like a big man? Why are you trying to call me stupid and unknowledable?
Here and again:
and:
Here… Like are you serious? You’re so toxic claiming I don’t know stuff, calling me bad at the game and it turns out that its YOU that don’t even know your own spec? You are a childish person, that apparantly is all about talking, and when you don’t have any arguments you try to be personal and attack the person.
Next time, instead of calling others bad or saying they don’t know stuff, maybe make sure that you know them youself?
Thats because when comparing classes you can’t just look at dps in a optimum… Thats like arguing you can do more dps on a target dummy therefor your class is better than mine… If you can’t comprehend how classes are being ranked, then again, maybe you should look yourself in the mirror and learn game mechanics rather than sitting on forums calling others bad.
Read the FULL QUOTE… “BEST AT THE SPEC” I never said HE wanted to be the best… If you really can’t comprehend basic english then maybe don’t try and make arguments about what I said and didn’t say?
Aggression? I literally encouraged someone not to want to be at the peak from day 1 but try and learn… If you take that as aggression read your own comments… All you have been trying to do is undermine everything I say as “You are wrong. Case closed” even though it turned out YOU were wrong… You even called me troll multiple times. So pack your “I am here a friendly mage discussing mage stuff” away… You are a bully that just tries to undermine everyone that doesn’t agree with you… You are overly arrogant thinking you know way more about the game than you actually do.
This is not for the other mage players, this is for YOU specifically… It seems you really need to learn your class and instead of just copy pasting your talent build from the internet, actually READ what your spells do. Imagine being 2.8k rated and not knowing blink gets you out of stun, imagine all the dps you have lost sitting in stuns, imagine everytime you died because you don’t know you can DB + sheep or DB + Ring of frost… YOU need to gitgood, because you are lacking the bare fundamentals of mage, but you are pretending to be a veteran know all mage player.
Case closed.
You at it again? This was a post about Arcane pvp. Why haven’t you just rerolled paly already and left all us mages to our ‘delusions’
Doesn’t matter. What you said was there was no PVP gear. Just because its better for fire mage, and in your case, doesn’t mean that the gear doesn’t exists. Again, go try and do PVP with your PVE gear. I’m sure the lack of trinkets and trinket bonus ontop of your verse will get you far
Nope, I do mind my words. Just because you can’t comprehend a sentence, doesn’t make it MY responsibility. Either ask or stop assuming, thats your fault, not mine
Again, then thats a you problem. Just because you don’t feel mages are A-tier doesn’t make it a fact. Clearly the professionals disagree, and I would rather take their word for it when I see mages being used in both PVP and PVE high end game than a you, that doesn’t even know the difference between your spells… If mage is too complicated and you don’t enjoy it, then switch? There is what, 16 classes and 37 specs? (From what I remember), plenty to choose from.
No. Because a game like WoW is situational. What instruments would you use to balance the game completely flat? You won’t. If it was a possibility Blizzard wouldn’t be having to tune classes constantly. Again, I would rather think a multi billion company with staff looking at this has a better idea, than you if flat balancing without too big of a compromise was a possibility.
But then dont? Noone is forcing you or anyone else? If you aren’t willing or capeable of investing the time getting to where you want to be, maybe the class or the game is not for you?
It is said, to master something you must spend 10k hours practicing it. You don’t just sit infront of a piano and play for 4 months and expect to compose like Beethoven.
Mate, I showed you and proved you wrong multiple times. Mages ARE A-tier… You just don’t think so, and thats because the ONLY factor you count is “Damage”. If you can’t comprehend it, maybe instead of saying I am bad at game mechanics, you should understand them better yourself?
If mages weren’t A tier, you wouldn’t see them so highly used in end game content…
I said feelings doesn’t matter to facts Not the game industry, yet again you show that you are not capeable of reading the entire sentence. No surprise.
Can you show me evidence that players are leaving because mage is not A-tier? If not then it has no relevence… That would be like me saying “People are leaving because mage is always too strong” and show you numbers of unsub. So, can you prove that there is a correlation between mage not being A-tier and player base unsubbing?
Nope, if you feel like that, then thats either:
A) Your lack of reading and comprehension skills
B) You feel attacked because I hit a nerve for some reason
Yet you are complaining about not being strong enough compared to another class?? HMMMMM doesn’t that sound like you want to compete with ret paladins? xD This is absurd… If you didn’t care about competition you wouldn’t be whining that you are doing less dps… Of course WoW is about competing? Killing bosses is a competition, the best gets in, PVP has always been a thing… If you don’t want to compete you can just do casual content? Why do you care what spec is A-tier and C-tier if you don’t want to push high end?
M+ is one big competition, you are literally competing to beat the clock… So if WoW Is an MMO RPG, then go role play? Why do you care for numbers then?
Yeah you mean stupid like when I had to teach you, your own spells? xD
Nope, but its cute thinking that xD
Okay? xD Maybe then I can teach you a few other things about your class <3 Or maybe next time, you will actually know what you are talking about instead of saying blink don’t get you out of a stun xD
Because I haven’t looked at them all? And even if I did, you will probably post a link to a tweet from someone saying “No mages are not A-tier!!” and use it as an arugment to discredid every website xD
All the major websites, streamers, lists etc. are ranking mages as A-tier. Your only argument is “My SiMs ArE sHoWinG lOwEr DpS tHaN rEt PaLaDiN!” xD
That did not answer my question… I did not bully anyone xD Just because I tell someone that they can try and improve doesn’t mean its bullying… And its a weird logic… So because I tell someone they can improve, your logic is to act like you know everything, call them bad at the game, when in fact… You don’t even know the game yourself? xD Ah I see, perfect logic mate, doesn’t make you look silly at all! <3
You can probably write them an email mate, do I have to explain all your spells AND the entire game for you?
Again, if you can’t comprehend what general terms and direct terms are in a sentence, I feel very sorry for you… :') I’ve even tried explaining it to you multiple times, but sadly, you wont understand xD
Yep, because YOU tried undermining me in both cases xD You tell me to “read” and “you are bad at game mechanics”… So maybe before trying to be like “I am better than you! I know the game more than you!!” then make sure you actually do
Wanna compare? If you are that sure xD I will bet, that I am more content in my life in and out of the game than you are, but thanks for caring <3
You are literally the one that tried acting like you were better than me, and when I proved you wrong you have to use the “Omg you probably struggle IRL” xD Mate its okay, you tried to act smart and pretend you was a good player, turns out you aren’t…
I understand life can be tough, but I can promise you my life is pretty solid, and I get enough encouragement both in and outside of the game. That is also why, I don’t have to complain on forums that my A-tier class is not A-tier because I am not the best… I don’t have to be. But its okay that you do, but remember its only a game, and you can be good at something IRL, dont have to be fire mage
Funny, since you don’t even know me xD But hey, I am sure that my life is better than yours, because I didn’t have to talk about yours. You are projecting your own insecurities and lacks on me, trying to bring me down xD <3 Good luck buddy
wow, man, this one is good! 10k hours to be top class in WoW. Good luck) See you there
XDDDDDD No, really, this is good) I ve got something for you after that… Read further
I read on the internet, that you should not trust troll druid) Its like written everywhere)
Fresh stat from warcraftlogs .com
Fire mage stat. Rank list for class/spec dps in Amirdrassil (HC), max percentile (top log), 483-485 item lvls, each boss, 10.2.5 patch (last 2 weeks).
A-tier class/spec barely getting 10th place. Check other specs if you like. I hope these flat numbers are selfexplanatory. And yes it is dmg, since most part of the game is PvE. And hell! Mages do have sheep! Surely they should be S-tier.
But ok, lets get back to the PvP, since you wanted to…
How highly? You mean arena? 100k players out of 4 mln… Nice.
But… once again
Maybe mages are good in Arena teams. But:
Did you make the research? Cause I did, and knew I was right when I said that mages are not A tier. But you were stubborn. And now it comes…
Man, I tried to save you pinky place. But you got me there. I checked the stats as soon as you gave me the source.
You asked me to check leaderboard, so I went to pvpleaderboard .com
eu 2vs2 - 1 mage out of top 200! (92 players out of 4910, 1.8%)
eu 3vs3 - 5 mages out of top 100 (210 out of 4912, 4.2%)
us 2vs2 - 2 mages out of top 100 (90 out of 4955, 1.8%)
us 3vs3 - 6 mages out of top 100 (189 out of 4898, 3.8%)
You may check druids, for example, and you will see much more of them.
eu 2vs2 - 18 dru out of top 100 (718 players out of 4910, 14.6%)
eu 3vs3 - 20 dru out of top 100 (748 out of 4912, 15.2%)
us 2vs2 - 25 dru out of top 100 (747 out of 4955, 15.1%)
us 3vs3 - 16 dru out of top 100 (740 out of 4898, 15.1%)
Not that cool for mages, huh…
And you know why? Here it comes… I warned you.
Because according to your source (wowmeta) mages are D-tier in pvp effectively being the last in 2vs2 rating and second to last in 3vs3. BANG-BANG
Check for yourself.
wowmeta. com/rankings/pvp/class-tier-list
2vs2
So. I was waiting for it. You said, that mages are A-tier. Here:
You are right. Feelings doesn’t matter to facts…
You gave me your source:
And I assumed it is not trustworthy. But you insisted!
And now, my friend… I tried my best to save you, to make you check your source, to feel a bit critical to your thoughts. No, you decided to be a big mf daddy.
I am former Gladiator. And of course I know that you can use blink out of stun. But making fun of you was so cool. You didn’t check your own source, when you gave it. Bad luck, man.
I said, I ll be there. You are incompetent. Get lost. Bye
It was a point of reference so you could understand that in life you can’t just expect to sit down and be good at something from day 1
Bro… Come on… I told you multiple times, but it seems I have to again… A class is not ranked solely on their DPS… Like please, do you have difficulties reading or understanding how things work? Because I can try and write it out even more clear if that is the case?
What you are linking is not proving your point… Mages are still A-tier…
Relevance?
Again relevance? Just because its a small part, doesn’t mean they are highly ranked?.. Like are you okay?
You do realize why right?.. Like please for a second use your knowledge of the game… Like just for 2 seconds… I beg you… Sort for 3v3 and arcane is S-tier. So no… You are choosing a niche game mode, specially this season with SS out to point out mages are not A-tier… Why? Because mage is a utility class like I have tried pointing out to you bang bang like are you actually THAT unknowledgeable? Like REALLY? xDDDDD
Yup, what did I use that source for? Raid and Dungeons 
Use my actual source for PVP go on, please.
So yes, twisting my arguments to make them fit yours again hahahaha didn’t expect anything else from you xDDDD
But yeah sure, I am sure AWC players are using D-tier specs to compete… That would make a lot of sense… Go look at the SS rankings of the class, please go do so. Do ACTUAL research instead of trying to find something that supports you and forgetting all logic and sense like you have done so far…
I did… My source was a reference to the PVE part Because I can actually use logical sense, and find the PVP stats in a database that also takes SS into consideration, like you (no surprise) don’t want to So maybe before you try and act smart, maybe think for a second <3
hahahaha you are NOT a former gladiator xD And you did not try to make fun of me, you were just that bad at your own class… Its okay, maybe next time <3
And how nice you didn’t want to answer any of the IRL stuff huh? Guess I was right Its okay man. I understand when you got nothing really going for you, and even when you spend 500 hours on class and still don’t know your spells, it can be irritating and you feel like projecting your flaws and insecurities on others <3
And please, do be there next time. I’m always ready to try and help others improve, and I succeeded with you. Now you can avoid dying in a stun and in PVE get out of them to help your team instead of sitting there and wait for them to get you out <3
Pathetic way of arguing xD Imagine though. I never said mages were the HIGHEST represented did i? I said they were represented in hi end content xD But its okay, I figured reading isn’t your strong suit xD
Oh I can, just haven’t happened against you so far. So far you’ve proven me right on multiple occasions and even when you WERE wrong you pretend to “act like you didn’t know” hahaha
Again, just to clearly state the obvious, which you for some reason can’t seem to understand… But if you had just bare minimum game knowledge and actually was a “former glad” like you claimed (looooooool xD xD xD) you would realize why:
And “Sheep can be kicked” loooool a “former glad” not being able to fake kick, using it as an argument xD
Imagine actually having to lie about your skills because you accidentally showed how bad you are at the class when spending 500 hours on it :') pathetic
You were the one bringing it up in the first place mate xD How convenient that you skip it now xD “I dont have to go there” nah you just had to start there hahahaha
omg at this point I think you must be trolling xD
Okay? you were the one acting like a super villain “I will be there!!!” xD Calm down, do you think you are special or something?
I did, sad to see even in your own thread people are calling you out for not understanding data and the sources you refer to, just like I did here xD hmmmmmm seems to be a pattern right?
And imagine… your whole “this is a mage forum only mages can comment!!” argument kinda fell to the ground, when other mage players call you own for being wrong… loool
That is just sad you do not even know what pvp balance is about yet you try to pretend you have one time been good at it.
This right here is an irrelevant data point as wow has NEVER in the history of the game been balanced around 2v2 or 1v1 for that matter.
You simply do not know about balance and you really should go and learn more about the game because it is very easy for anyone to see you do not know much about how balance works.
It is genuinely just sad to see so many days later and you still have learned Nothing.
You are doing the same stupid stupid way of doing warcraftlogs that is just plain incorrect and wrong you still do not understand how anything of these things work you are simply hopeless case of just complaining to complain.
Mage could be the best of the best of the best of the best number 1 in everything and you would still complain it was the worst at something and need buffs.
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