Arena and Warriors

Classes Warrior
1

Hello fellow arena warriors.

I stand before you hardstuck at 2k-2.1k in 8.3.

I have about 1200 games this season in 2s and I would like to know your opinions on the current state of pvp and warrior in said pvp.

I ask this cause I feel like the class although fun to play, feels less powerful than many other classes in general.

For reference as I type this, above 2.4 in EU there’s a total of 53 warriors, and I checked the next class on the list and there are 260 rogs above 2.4. Now I know this is not a good metric, but goes to show people are willing to either play more that class than warrs, or the class itself is stronger (considering were taking about top tier players

Obviously since the topic is arenas my focus is on Arms Warr cause its basically the only viable choice to climb higher.

Ex:
Bad Stuff
Warrior is currently the only class with no self heal (noone takes Second Wind in arenas).
Has the most lackluster cds (comparing to lock/dk/ret/boom/mage/spriest etc…)
Has to be in melee range to silence when most classes can do it from afar.
Has to chose between being more mobile or have a ranged stun, thus making them be very easy to kite or not cc at all (dps bot).
Has to be in melee range to do a 50% slow that can be blocked, plenty of other classes with better slows and ranged even (looking at you dks :slight_smile: ).
DBTS has a 3 min cd ( one of the longest def cds out there - sure you can argue def stance is available, but you have to sacrifice your dps for it).
One aoe cc that can easely break and u have to be very near your target, hopeful they stack.
Abilities feel weak when pressed… even execute (bleed class).

Good Stuff
If talented you have the greatest MS debuff in the game, and it has a short cd too.
Has good utiliy (Spell Reflect/Disarm/Duel/Banner/Shout)… not all at once :smiley:
Dmg is not too great but not too bad - can compete if not sitting D stance all game.

So in my view were just a worse version of what a WW monk can do to be honest, in every aspect.

I’d like to know your thoughts on the current state of warrs in pvp (arenas).

Thank you for taking the time to read.

Latinnus

2 Likes
2

You forgot that some our utility abilities are also DPS abilities so we have to choose between using them for burst or for the mobility. E. g. Bladestorm. The burst and the snare removal/immune should be decoupled.

2 Likes
3

hey Latinnus,

You are not alone with feeling Warrior is lacking, specially in 2s.
no doubt arms warrior bring a lot of utility to the team but you pointed out its major issues: Lack of mobility and self-healing, hence warriors rely heavily on Versa and scale well with it, still doesn’t fix nor is a good argument to state that warriors are strong now, at the end of the expansion of all things.

For instance, i am currently focusing on 3vs3 and is ridiculously frustrating, because i spend a good 80% of my time on Def Stance being kited left and right with very little mobility or even opportunity to counter pressure, considering Avatar is lacklustre to say the least (when was the last time you saw a warrior use Avatar and everyone else running away from him/her? just like what happens when locks use Darksoul or Rets use Wings).

At the end of the day, i feel warriors are “”“”“”“”“”“”“”“”““fine””“”“”“”“”“”“”“”" some other classes are, however, not in comparison. The one that hurts me the most is Monks, having a myriad of tools that previously belong to warriors and for some reason were removed and given to Monks. (root and mystic touch for example)
Still on Monks, why does a class with so much mobility has a ranged disarm?

questions for another time i suppose :slight_smile:

What does the future bring? well on Shadowlands Alpha, warrior arms still has NO self-healing (we get ignore pain however, not bad not bad i would say) but is given even more utility, such as Shattering Throw and Intervene which will help a bunch no doubt, does they fix the core issues?
i am afraid not, but we are beyond that :slight_smile:

Another thing prevalent on BFA is spike damage, or burst, warrior of course has none. I am not saying warriors lack damage (on the contrary) but the current state of the game promotes more bursty damage compared to sustained (where warrior currently belong) Examples of bursty damage would be Mages (combustion)/Warlocks (yolo bolts)/Rets (wings)/Monks (touch of skill and fists of skill)/Rogues (vendetta).

i love the class and spec but is frustrating and in many ways not worth it. If i were you i wouldn’t get too upset regarding 2vs2, its quite hard in my experience for a warrior the current meta on that bracket. Take it easy man and lets hope things get brighter in the Shadowlands :smiley:

about this, i do not agree. I feel Bladestorm hits like a wet noodle and is more used a CC breaker then to actually do damage. People don’t care about its damage at all. Hits for like 12k a tick, very very very underwhelming.
For reference, check Bladestorm from back in WOTLK, now that was a bad boy ability :smiley:
Bladestorm made sense back then, had a bigger CD and quite a rage cost but was worth it and people moved away from you, now days i use it to break roots and eat kidneys :weary:

4

The front-loaded damage og Blade Storm is weak due to it applying a back-loaded DoT that stacks. Nothing changes in that it’s a burst and a utility ability at the same time, it’s just that the burst is bad due to the back-loading. Which is an intentional mechanic to reduce the burst of arms whatever Blizzard says officially. Which is quite silly given that every other spec have seen their burst damage increase even when they have access to a MS debuff.

5

Well, since I was finally able to get some corruptions (after no luck since start of patch despite me doing all the content) I am gonna try to push 3s a bit. ( i hit a glad in s1 BFA) what is currently good combo for arms? to go for glad in 3s?

I am stacking versa/versa corrupt or versa/expedient?

Feedback welcome :slight_smile:

6

Hmmm true, i forgot about Deep Wounds :relaxed:

7

Arms is really good right now if you can stack 40%+ BASELINE versatility.
I agree 2s is a bit miserable as arms because some classes can kite you forever if they play good, but its def doable!
2v2 is all about uptime on your targets and putting your bleeds up as fast as possible, denying your enemies burst windows.
If you want to learn a bit i suggest you check out JoeFernandes123 on twitch :smiley:

8

Yes, nothing unreasonable in that and definitely possibly without rental powers /s

It’s a band-aid, that’s all, and when Corruption is gone it’s back to being bad and unviable, only more so if the tools that everyone else have been given in their first pass on the Alpha stays as it is.

Demonic Appetite, the first Talent row for SH is in it’s current form literally better than any Talents on the last row.

  • It provides excellent healing.
  • It provides an increase in resources
  • And it provides an increase in DPS and burst by reducing the cooldown of Eyes by 2 sec with every Soul Fragment down to max 15 reduction.
9

Me, and a lot of warriors got 2,4k in 2v2 before we had 20%+ versatility,and tentacle nerf wasnt a thing so warrior being bad in 2v2 is incorrect

10

I have 20% as well when I do Arenas. 40% is only a 100% increase!

And you’re correct in saying what you do about Warriors. It’s just that everyone else is better as they’re designed after a 2015 paradigme while Arms is designed after 2005 fears. The evidence is that other classes have gotten higher burst DPS, better utility, increased CC, etc. That were denied to Warriors with the exact opposite reasoning and thus are overrepresented in arenas.

11

Nowdays its kinda a dampening spec, because usually you dont have enough damage to kill players before they run out of mana, or dampening is high enough.
Warrior utility is pretty good tho defensive wise with 30% rally on a 1m cd if talented,war banner,disarm, and aoe fear on a 90s cd undispellable

it is really frustrating to play in 2v2 we can all agree on that

12

Hey guys,

Thank you for some good feedback, seems we can all agree warr is not in a great spot rn and i’m hopeful blizz can see the issue in it coming SL.

Btw one thing i hated about shattering throw… is it’s cast time, any good pala or monk will be mindfull you will use this skill and los you before using their cd, making the ability utterly useless (I remember it was a 1.5s cast, u have to be stationary and had 5 min cd too). Should be either instant or reduce its cast time, or make you be able to move while casting like lightning lasso. Thoughts?

13

The first pass of the Warrior in SL leaves me with little hope for this. It’s essentially BfA+ I say having tried it on the alpha :frowning:

And yes. I agree it needs something if it’s to take a niche role. That or it needs to be expanded so it’s no longer a niche ability and instead something to be legit afraid of, like it removes any and all defensive cooldowns on the target. Rogue uses 100 dodge/parry? Shattering Throw and it’s now gone. Welcome to fear country, population you.

14

I agree with you on this one, definitely needs to be more than just a niche ability, and for a 5 min cd it should be, the example you gave about shattering throw breaking any defensive cd is something borderline op but i’d take it :smiley:

15

Almost every other class have abilities that are either op or borderline op. That Warriors should be excluded from that club makes no sense.

16

Coming SL I don’t see any warr cd to be feared atm, we’ll see how it turns out.

17

In the first pass of Warriors none of the specs will be used for anything. The entire Class might as well be deleted from the game, that’s how bad Warriors are of all three specs.

18

Erhm… more lacklusting then SP? What are you on about. We literally dont even have a offensive CD to pop. Warriors eats me in 2s. Especially fury

19

To many of our utility abilities are in talents against the wrong types of talents. Stormbolt should be baseline with then our choice between 3 different mobility options. Doubletime , the old talent that used to reduce charge cd and heroic leap cd reduction.

They atleast seem to be starting to understand this by making some of our old pvp talents baseline, but im worried they dont actually understand why its a good thing and are just going, well classic had more abilities so lets put in more abilities.

Also theres this lie thats been circulating since around after mop that warriors NEED a healer to do well, thats just a flat out lie since tbc-mop warriors had amazing self healing and everyone who didn’t play a warrior back then just seems to have forgotten. So now the status quo is well warriors NEED a healer to follow them to succeed which is EXTREMELY BORING for non constructed pvp, it essentially makes 80% of the content not fun to do as a warrior because you need to beg a healer to follow you.

Warriors used to get healed when someone crit against them.
They used to have enrage regen
There were much better forms of second wind
They used to have a heal when they were CC’d

Also now that no casters use their mana we cant out sustain them with our larger health pools and damage reduction abilities, this was a big factor to warrior dueling.

Intervene is thankfully being returned this will add a higher skill ceiling to warriors to predict and stop cc , or run away back to your healer to reduce enemies burst cd’s.

Spell reflect also being baseline is going to allow us to use it on comps we normally wouldnt be able to.

Also Mortal strike being nerfed over time reduced our niche, but maybe this should stay gone because it doesnt add much to the gameplay of warrior.

20

You forgot nested utility abilities inside DPS ones. We’re forced to either use Bladestorm for the DPS burst or for the Anti-Snare utility and doing either will reduce our supposed mobility or our supposed DPS.

Nested abilities are fine if they have the function or one of them is a passive effect. When it has two opposed active effects that are activated at the same then it’s supremely bad design. It would be better if Blade Storm was two separate skills, one shout with the Snare removal/immunity that could be used during Blade Storm, and then a Blade Storm DPS cooldown.