Aren't fire mages effective against zombies? Why didn't Quel'thalas have a chance against Arthas?

I get that loosing a limb or bleeding doesn’t stop a zombie and that warriors and rangers are not too effective against them,but mages can just burn their whole body. I also know that many were in Dalaran at the time of the invasion but Quel’thalas fell so easily and to me it’s weird that they didn’t deal at least a huge blow to the scourge. Priests/paladins also had the light at their side which weakens the undead. Imagine how much damage holy fire would have done to them!

The idea is that the numbers were the problem. You can burn zombies, sure, but how many can you burn until you run out of juice? I’d guess that number is limited.

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Silvermoon also had an enchanted impenetrable barrier called the Ban’dinoriel:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ban%27dinoriel

The main reasons for their downfall were that:

  1. The Scourge had overwhelming numbers (Not only Zombies, do also consider Abominations, Necromancers and Nerubian Crypt Fiends that could tunnel underneath the Elven fortifications and Gargoyles that could fly over them), so even if the Elves managed to kill a thousand Undead with a spell, the Scourge could put forward a thousand more.

  2. Perhaps most crucially, they were betrayed from within by Dar’khan Dratir:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dar%27Khan_Drathir

Without his treason, one could arguably state that the Elves could have won the day in the end by ultimately sealing themselves behind the Ban’dinoriel. His betrayal alone severely crippled Quel’Thalas’ defenses by depriving them of their indestructible magic shield (through the murder of the Magisters at the Sunwell) and by informing Arthas of vital locations in Quel’Thalas such as the shrines where the fragments of the Key of the Three Moons were hidden.

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Also, remember, Fire isn’t that good against Zombies. It won’t stop them, and just means they set the forest around them on fire, which isn’t going to bother them, but will bother you. I mean you could stand there and act as a mega blowtorch focussing on one Zombie. In the meantime their nine mates will be chowing down on you. And catching fire.

You’d be better off as a skilled Ranger, as in keeping with most fantasy and horror, a head shot will kill a zombie outright in accordance with the Sylvanas Warbringer flashback anyway, and its quicker to do.

The real reasons have pretty much been covered, Betrayal from within, and then the standard advantage that zombies -always- have.

Numbers.

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Actually fire (and Fire magic) is universally known in every fantasy franchise as one of the (few) weaknesses of the zombies/vampires/undead so it should be quite effective against the Scourge. If anything it’s Frost, Necromantic and Void magics that should be weak against them, and Arcane and Nature could be something in between (depending on the magical power of the wielder and the spell itself of course)

Obviously I’m talking about zombies, ghouls, nerubians, abominations and other kinds of “lesser” undead. Certainly Death Knights and the Undead that are generally stronger/more powerful have some sort of resistance/immunity to Fire magic, given that their own necromantic/frost magic is very powerful, and they have magic runes/magical shields to protect themselves as well after all.

The only kinds of magic that should be even more powerful than Fire is the Light, being their nemesis and weakness (assuming we consider the Light as just another form of magic, like the Blood Elves generally do) and the Felfire, given that it’s basically green demonic fire that it’s way stronger, hotter and destructive than regular Fire (but way more corruptive as well for the wielder)

But honestly at this point, a relatively small group of Blood Elf Magisters and Blood Mages working together should be able to use Fire Magic to torch any lesser undead from Quel’thalas with relative ease, including the ones still in Deatholme. I daresay that they would “cleanup” the undead in the Ghostlands and the Dead Scar in a few weeks if Silvermoon helped them and really put their efforts into it, and if the Scourge didn’t spawn back continuosly, especially in the Dead Scar.

Add a few Warlocks with their fel magics, Blood Knights with their Light burning Undead (and healing/protecting their comrades) and a cadre of Rangers shooting Fire arrows (heh, this should definitely be used and implemented for Blood Elf hunters instead of Arcane Shot :stuck_out_tongue: ) and the undead barbecue would be complete…Quel’thalas would be almost completely freed of the Scourge in a quite short period of time in my opinion…maybe when Blizzard actually update Quel’thalas we will see this…if ever :confused:

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There is nothing in WoW that hints this way, other fantasy worlds don’t matter here :wink:
Fire with normal heat burns flesh, but the undead in WoW don’t really need that, as seen with Skeletons, there are even some burning ones in Incecrown during the firemage-Artifact quest, so fire doesn’t seem to bother the undead hordes.
And as mentioned before, a headshot kills them. And it’s far quicker than a big fire spell.

Lightmagic however is really powerful against undead, as seen with the Ashbringer killing thousands of them without problem.

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I don’t think Brigante’s point was that zombies was less damaged by fire.

Sure, it does make sense that zombies are easily damaged by fire. But the zombies do not care about pain, they’ll keep walking towards you, along with a dozen other zombies.

Numbers overwhelm regardless.

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Well to be honest fire (magic) is quite effective against the living too, not just the Undead…

cough Burning of Teldrassil cough Troll wars where thousands of Trolls where burned alive by fire magic :stuck_out_tongue:

so definitely fire is strong against the (lesser) undead too …although I agree that the Light is way more effective (and Felfire/Chaos magic too, but that’s because fel magic is stronger by default against any opponent)

Actually I just recalled an example of fire being effective/dangerous to the Undead, there is a zone in Eversong Woods (the Scourched Grove) where it’s said the Blood Elves themselves torched a part of their own forests and trees in the south near the border with the Ghostlands in order to stop the advance of the Scourge from that region -and it worked - (at the cost of losing their forest and making Trents protectors an enemy of the Blood Elves too), considering that the fire burned/scared away everything and physically stopped the Scourge (and their tainted blight soil too) from entering in Eversong Woods, indeed the Scourge is only confined in the Dead Scar in that zone, whereas in the Ghostlands the Undead could be potentially everywhere)

That’s the thing, it isn’t especially effective against Zombies. If the fire is hot enough it burns them, if not they continue with their work

All fire does is turn zombies into skeletons.

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I know it hurts, but you need to let that dream go. Blizzard have said no many times and unlike for high elves there’s just simply not enough people that care about this issue. I want to fly in Silvermoon and use it as my main city but I will probably never be able to do that :sob:

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It’s true and I hate to say it.
Silvermoon doesn’t get enough attention in the game. The only people who go there are either RP’ers from Argent Dawn EU or people levelling new Blood Elf characters or new characters in general, since Eversong Woods has become a 1-60 zone.

I’d love to see an update, but the resources aren’t there to update the zone visually and create a new starter experience.

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Betrayal from within was the reason they eventually gave. Truth be told, I think Blizz has a deeply ingrained habit of telling you the Elves are powerful and deadly, then making them crumple like Styrofoam at every possible opportunity. It’s very frustrating.

As for the fire vs. zombies debate: Not really relevant? They have a lot more than fire magic. They had the vast power of the Sunwell and an army of veteran rangers who know the land better than I know my apartment and an unmatched mastery of arcane magic. I’m not upset that the Scourge won, it’s a huge threat and should be treated as such, but the way it’s portrayed, as if they were completely devastated by an overwhelming force, doesn’t really make sense to me.

I do think it’s kinda BS that the Orcs got anywhere without turning into pincushions. That’s another matter, though.

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Thats a established trick in storytelling to show the thread of the new enemy.
It’s called the Worf effect.

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Sorry but I disagree.
Blizzard has often signaled certain perks elves have, that’s true. But they’ve never actually made them any more “powerful” as a species than most of the other races.

They sure have their own positive qualities, but I feel that it’s thanks to player projections, that often equate them with other high fantasy equivalents such as LotR or Warhammer (where they are indeed shown as some superior species) that have created this idea about them being any more than they actually are.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ban%27dinoriel
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kaldorei_Empire
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Troll_Wars
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Nightwell
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sunwell
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Well_of_Eternity
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Nordrassil
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Malfurion_Stormrage
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tyrande_Whisperwind

I don’t even need to comment on this one.

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Oh wow we Elves have a lot of perks actually! :stuck_out_tongue:
Wait you also forgot Void Elves who are the first mortals who could defy the whispers of the Void and stay sane, at least for a while…and Alleria absorbing the essence of a Darkened Naaru

obviously this counts as a Ren’dorei but also (former) Sin’dorei perk :stuck_out_tongue:

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In a setting that facilitates all sorts of plot devices or extraordinary individuals to any race that requires them in the story, naming a few elves enjoyed, doesn’t make their species any more “powerful or deadly” than the rest.

Grasping at some Tolkien idea about elves being in any way superior to any other race, falls quite short once anyone takes a look at the story and notes the fact that whatever made them so great, was in fact the same plot devices that many others have had before them. Not some racial trait.

For all their “power” the ones that have a civilisation with spaceships are the Draenei, not the elves.
And for all their “might”, they were indeed destroyed by the undead, or ended up struggling against warmongering orcs.

Take out external fonts of power, or plot requirements, and the elven race is par on trolls, orcs, and most of the other fantasy races of the game.
And the above is something that certain people have a hard time acknowledging, as years of elven supremacy in other franchises, seem to have given many the idea that elves are like super-strong immortal beings. That’s when stuff like having them being beaten by orcs becomes a bitter pill to swallow.

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They are good at using and abusing external power, but the Nightwell, Sunwell, and druidism are no “elven” perks, they are just things they use (or abuse).
The Nightwell, Sunwell and Well of eternity are borrowed power, and without it they die like a junkie without crack.
Druidism was tought by cenarius, and by now half the world uses similar magic.

Nordrassil is nice, but after so many tries they were bound to get it right some day. There are more corrupted and failed worldtrees than wells of power by now.

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