Equal
since before Magic damage were only taken to bypass armor
But nowadays melees also have a lot of magic damage (like DH pala DK etc)
so more you add parameters
the more imbalance the damage are
Mostly when the reason of armor is only for tanking mobs nowadays
we can just give for tanks " take -25% less damage against physical damage"
The reason for armor since classic to today do less and less sense
I see little reason why armor exist apart for PvE tank, it feel like a legacy of RP that create imbalance in PvP
I think this is a terrible idea. This would remove the only weakness MM hunters currently has, rogues n hunters would dominate everywhere they go and plate classes would become terrible.
I get that you want to play rapid fire n make warriors, paladins n DKĀ“s vanish just like the mages n warlocks but it doesnt make all that great gameplay for anyone else. seemingly 70% of the BG population are already MM fotm abusers, with a change like this itĀ“d be 100%.
With this change itĀ“d mean that a MM hunter both has the option to kite a warrior, but it would also be perfectly fine standing still n point blank trade favorable with the warrior and win. Who on earth would play warrior at this point? or any plate class for that matter.
Anyway if armor is removed everything in physical damage will be buff/nerf so they can deal the same damage versus everyone
So donāt look at right now, think on overall in any patch even if MM is F tier or S+ tier
what would be different between a casting physical like MM and mage ? both can slow ranged and kite
make no sense that mage would suffer more physical damage than a hunter ?
We play for the gameplay, not because someone have better armor.
I donāt see where armor make you play warrior or DK
may need more explaination in there
also for the dps like letās create patch 12.1 where a balance druid and a fury warrior deal the same damage on cloth, versus a plate would you go on balance druid or go on warrior fury to kill that plate that reduce physical damage ?
because quite simply, not all classes has the same kits. If a hunter both deals more damage from range aswell as being equally capable of tanking damage as a plate class, why would anyone play a plate class? The appeal for plate classes is that they tend to be more tanky. If im going to be as squishy as a rogue, i want stealth and chain CC on my warrior.
The difference between a MM and a mage is that i can interrupt the mage n the mage doesnt have 55 yard range.
If you want to rebalance the entire game to the point where āno armorā is needed, whats the point of removing it in the first place? in what way would it be a gameplay improvement? i think classes having obvious strenghts n weaknesses is a big contributor to why people like certain classes.
People want to remove armor because it would be easier to balance the dmg around that.
But also explaining dps should be able to deal equal damage to everyone would also mean everyone needs the same kind of CC/mobility/kiting ability/defensives/MS effect etc but yea.
The biggest difference is quite obvious between an MM and a mage.
Arcane/Frost atleast has to cast/channel which you can interrupt.
MM have to be cced to get interrupted.
Interrupt + CC vs CC.
Armor indeed does not have a place anymore in modern game and this expansion shows it more than ever.
If your class isnt revolving around it you canāt know and wonāt care to know.
The only purpose Armor offers at the moment is damage reduction against hunters, warriors and ww / outlaw / enh every other class in this game has bypass mechanics or straight up do not care about armor.
What this creates is straight up unbalance and unfair matchups for everyone including physical damage dealers and cloth/leather wearers. I can go from one game absolutely blasting a warlock to another game just tickling a warrior. Looking at the other side a mage will prob just get eaten by a mm in 2 sec where a pala can tank an entire trueshot rotation it just creates a bad feeling for everyone.
There are different ways to fix it.
one easy step would be to equalize everyones armor to a certain threshold letās say 20% and maybe for classes with shield (pala/sham) it can be something like 25%. And from there on balance the strict physical classes around those threshold with buffs/nerfs towards certain abilites so every class does the same damage against the other class.
Another way would be to introduce more armor bypass mechanics for every physical class in form of buffs you have to keep uptime of or in form of cooldowns e.g. without losing important choices (old colossus smash armor bypass, old tigerpalm armor bypass stuff like that)
One more way but the complicated way would actually be to make all damage matter and reintroduce resistances for pvp and armor penetration as an stat so one game if you face frost mages you use frost resistance, gear next game vs sp you use shadow resistance, next game vs dk you use armor penetration gear etc. It makes the game feel more RPG regarding pvp however i do not think this would be smart at all and doesnāt hold with current times so im kinda leaning more towards 1.
Anything what makes armor more fair is something i would consider.
Im fine with removing armor n replacing it with static %, thats not what he wants though. he wants āaimed shot deals 100k damage to the mage so it should deal 100k damage to the warriorā.
For simplicity iĀ“d be perfectly fine with just splitting it into armor classes n have it set as a static number, āplate reduces physical damage taken by 40%, mail 30%, leather 20%, cloth 10%ā or something along those lines.
Im not fine at all with this stat communism he suggests however. i want my platearmor. But im willing to compromise, give my warrior stealth n same amont of CC chain capability as a sub rogue with access to the same defensives as sub rogue and add deadzone back to hunters and make hunters ācastedā or āchanneledā abilities kickable.
Thats mostly been my issue. I fully understand that people want to deal the same amount of dmg as they do to cloth users to plate users and if they dont, they call it outrageous and complains.
It would make it easier to balance but I also see a few issues with it. But that comes down to what they truly call fairness or not.
lets just take away all forms of armor. get rid of plate, mail, leather and cloth. makes it easier for the developers, they only need to design one set of clothes and every class wears them.
since we are at it, get rid of all weapons. 2handers have more stats than 1handers. so if every class uses the same weapon it is easier to balance.
since we are at it, get rid of all abilities. everybody only auto attacks. it is easier to balance.
If we just look at other games that are actually PvP focused, hell lets look at league of legends. Champions has different stats n specialty. If karthus can sit in melee range and trade evenly with Darius while still having access to his ranged abilities, why would anyone play Darius?
Thats essentially what it comes down to in this comparison if you just look at hunters vs warriors for example. Or take warrior n rogue, If the rogue deals same damage to me in plate as i do to him, but he is able to lock me down for 70% of the fight, what advantage do i have on my warrior that makes me want to play it instead or rogue? Outside of not wanting to play a sissyboy iĀ“d have absolutely no reason to not play rogue or hunter at that point since they would be straight up superior options.
besides. While this guy claims it has nothing to do with hunter we all know thats not the case, the MM hunter abuse made even me stop queing BGĀ“s n im a fury warrior atm. If i was a cloth main who enjoyed bgs iĀ“d uninstalled long ago.
If a game like league of legends with very few abilities per character still has significant stat variations, what makes anyone think stat communism is a good idea in a game like WoW?
Im perfectly fine with just going static numbers if people find the random number hard to understand while being too lazy to hover it for a % based representation. I dont however see the point of it but removing armor classes is terrible, a rogue should not be able to casually trade blows with a plate class just like a hunter shouldnt feel comfortable sitting in melee n PvE rotation all comfy while a warrior is on him.
I know im mentioning warrior an awful lot, im doing that both because i play it atm but also because its one of the most simple examples of āpure physical damageā while in plate.
Rogues already have a pretty hefty chunck of their dmg as shadow for sub and nature for assa (and bleeds which ignores armour if im still alright).
I get what heās asking for in the post, however Iād like armour to matter more, not less, by removing the crazy amount of extra damage types for classes (Chaos for DH, Shadow and Nature for Rogue, lots of nature/fire/bleeds on surv too btw) so Hunter is not the only class percieving to suffer from this.
I think itād be healthier for the game.
I get that what OP wants is, if you give him the benefit of the doubt, making MM easier to balance because you either oneshot clothies and do ok into everything thats plate (as it is rn, i think MM does fine into plate), or you do ok into clothies and want to gouge out your eyes if you face double plate because you tickle them.
Versatity is completely different, has a soft and hard cap and it also is a very uncreative stat to begin with, id argue that Versatility has to go- not armor.
Armor should be made more like Resilience in WOTLK and that would spice things up a lot more for everyone.
I do agree that armor serves less of a purpose as time goes by but removing armor will only make the Devs to buff or/and remove the cap of Versatility and things wont be any different infact this could help with the caster meta problem because everyone will get like +#% magical dmg reduction and +#% all damage done.
if this does not happen though and armor simply gets removed as a stat or disabled in pvp then this literally means + 20% ~ buff to rogue and hunter.
And as things stand I dont think theres a single sane soul that believe that rogues/hunters deserve any further buff ,
id wager the contrary.
i tried to find details on resilience, and thereās 2 version for WOTLK of resilience in the different patch note ( source : wowwiki-archive .fandom.com /wiki/Resilience)
Patch 3.0.3: The damage reduction component of resilience has been increased from 2 times the critical strike chance reduction to 2.2 times the critical strike chance reduction. In addition, the maximum damage reduction to a critical strike from resilience has been increased from 30% to 33%.
Patch 3.2.0: No longer reduces the amount of damage done by damage-over-time spells, but instead reduces the amount of all damage done by players by the same proportion. In addition, the amount of resilience needed to reduce critical strike chance, critical strike damage and overall damage has been increased by 15%.
Wich one you were thinking of more ? the 3.2.0 ?
Imo it look like it destroy the critical strike stats hard
Critical strike are important to fasten the pace by forcing the ennemy team to use defensive without using cooldown
DF change to critical damage being 150% goal was just to avoid oneshot from stacker of full crit mastery
In legion stats were extremly fix and simple
More ilevel more % damage more in PvP
big default is we couldnāt customise the stats
Some even today donāt want to go above 30% versa and want to sacrifice versa stats for more damage
Some even wanted the total freedom of stats to go full damage and not wanting the versa stats ( custom stats in PvP led to PvP stuff created by profession in 10.1.5 )
but two things is not customisable : armor and stamina
while stamina can make sense since it is for everyone
armor is not the same for everyone
versality can be diminished return but so is a choice : trade more damage for more damage taken
And that is the issue that changed a lot between 10.0.7 and 1.1.5 is that we were no longer bound to forced of taking always versality and be able to customise stats in PvP
For a example for marksmanship, with that change being able to redirect such stats into Mastery / crit is MASSIVE ( aka double stats of versa value given to dps , i will give you a simulation stats to see, my character is already adapted to max optimisation for damage so the value of crit and mastery is lower but imagine if i was full versa on one stats the dps lost )
donāt forget to multiply the value of crit down since crit is 150% in dragonflight and the stats here is PvE calculated (200%)
No, everyone had above 55% crit chance , most hunters were rocking 70% , while rogues had 100% crit chance on backstab, ambush abilities among other things with other classes. Abilities like Cold Blood still 100% critically hit no matter the amount of resilience unless there is Roar of Sacrifice.
Resilience reduced around 20% of the crit. Rn everyone has 15-23 % crit total.
p.s. i know how diminishing returns work. xD
Stamina is kinda modifiable, there gems with stamina so ā¦ kind of.
Speaking of wotlk, gemming in wotlk was so superior you could compensate for having pve items and focus on certain stats you need and so on ā¦ rn if you wonna have a tanky build you can just equip your second equipment with full resilience gems + blood drinking on your weapon xD
i loved shadowmelding + equiping 1600 resilience gear , rogues were losing their minds.
