Arms and the upcoming "buffs" on Jan 23rd/24th

Classes Warrior
21

The problem with doing the bottom spec here is that the very good Warrior players are not playing Arms they are playing Fury because it does more damage so Arms will look worse then it actually is on dps lists like warcraftlogs that uses actual player data.

And if he is correct it is more than Ret is getting in AOE and people are freaking out about ret dps. (though for ret i believe it is more that people do not understand what the numbers listed actually means)

And neither are you so of you and him i am more inclined to believe him as he is a theorycrafter when no one brings calculations so it can be double-checked.

But hey if you are correct i hope arms get another buff.

Hmm interesting though i do know some guide writers pick different talents because of ease to play if things are close enough.

22

For M+ its a minium 6% increase overall
Calculated for different Dungeons

23

You fail to understand that different numbers happens because situations change.
you are using 1 Situation 1 time 1 dungeon as your example here there is a crap load of different scenarios and things that can up or down your dps in 1 specific thing.
That is why Simulations are 300 000 different ones or even up to 10 000 000different times.
You are doing 1 time vs what the theorycraft is doing that is millions of permutations.
on average you are going to see 5% single target (in full single target talents and bis gear) and 2-3% aoe increase.

So how are you doing your calculations?

24

dude you write to much
i took 6 dungeons and added the plus and calculated the % difference
its everytime minium 6% up to 7%
show me you calculation for 2-3% then talk again

25

it is not my calculations it is the THEORYCRAFTER for retribution who say this F it il just copy paste 100% of what he said.
"Simulation suggests a ~5.2% buff to single-target in the pure ST build / on the BiS profile. Assuming no talent changes, ~4.9% buff to ST in BiS profile in a typical M+ build. Note that you’ll see larger relative increases personally if you are not running the legendary axe or high uptime on Signet Brand (or similar trinkets that do direct damage instead of stat increases), since a larger fraction of your personal damage will have been buffed.

On AoE / cleave, this is likely to be closer to the 2-4% range, depending on exact target count and whether the buff to Blade of Justice also applies to Blade of Vengeance. I would guess it does not, so estimate we’re on the lower end of this range. "

"Note that you’ll see larger relative increases personally if you are not running the legendary axe or high uptime on Signet Brand (or similar trinkets that do direct damage instead of stat increases), since a larger fraction of your personal damage will have been buffed."
This right here is where you are this right here is why your numbers are wrong.

26

its easy i took 6 different dungeons of top retri players added the +% to their dmg abilities
took the difference in % and thats it, our rotation wont change because of the changes
we will see it from tomorrow
the only thing this “theorycrafter” can mean is aoe in raid but not interested to calculate that now i was talking about m+ iam finished

27

Arms needs about a 20% buff to MS, Bladestorm and Execute. No joke. That dumb Fatal Mark Talent needs a 200% buff too.

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"Note that you’ll see larger relative increases personally if you are not running the legendary axe or high uptime on Signet Brand (or similar trinkets that do direct damage instead of stat increases), since a larger fraction of your personal damage will have been buffed."

You literally did what can make the % look bigger then it actually will be.
Just read what it say.
Your method is flawed and is Far to small of a sample size to actually give any real information.
But this will be the last thing from me here not because i do not want to talk about these things but because this is not the right place to talk about it.

29

Dude, after my 9th Kill without Leg Loot and reading Notes i sent a feedback with literally exact same feelings as you got to Blizzard. You are so right…

Its not only Arms Playstyle is just boring and happens without triggering any exitements, even the audio concept of that spec is really poor.
Like warrior is a class using rage as ressource. Can you feel that as an arms warrior? Not at all. Cause instead of a brutal roar and going enrage, you just keep that bleed up and the only indicator for that hapening is a silent weak aura that tells you your bleed is running ^^

Odyns Fury, Dragonroar, Recklessness, those are true warrior Thingys. While arms sounds as if you are hitting a metal barrel with a wooden stick or so… True!

They never gonna design like the player gets to choose what he/she likes most and can reach everything with it, thats same bullsh… as their meta philosophy every new season and tier. Classes and preferences become irrelevant, and they are the ones literally telling you what to play if you wanna play top end.

Starts with a season title for m+, but every time there are combs and classes with such a big advantage that you cant even play via ingame q cause you simply wont be invited. People just go with it, but do i want to play another dps class every tier? No i dont. I wanna play what i want with the same chances as everybody else but they just do not do the balancing.

In Forti weeks Arms is clearly heavy superior to fury still. Fury still does not like big pulls and the dps difference related to how big the pull is can be from 500k to 1m dps when the packs are down.

Srsly, how f´d up is that? Just poor…

Peace!

1 Like
30

Okay, since you try to talk retri down all the time and compare it to Arms, ill give you some facts:

You can handle Affixes, you can CR. These 2 single or lets say 3 abilities with HOJ alone are stronger then the whole Warro Toolkit BY FAR. I wont mention freedom, lay on hands and other stuff, which a Warr can only dream of having.

So for a group, a ret is far more helpful, then any Warro could be.

Damage Raid:

After the buffs, Arms parses 282,072.38 DPS on average, which now makes him 5th last.
Retri parses 300,010.06 which made him middle of the pack. Before the buffs it was Arms beeing 2nd last with 269,850.76 K DPS and Retri at the 7th last with 287,473.55 AVG DPS. If you dont see it by now, Arms doesnt even do the Numbers Retri did BEFORE the buff. On Average of course.

If you look at M+:

Ret is S Tier now together with havoc due to subcreation, which means its the best Melee that actually times keys in a matter of fact. When a DPS Class times more higher keys then others, it should mean anything right? Aso Ret is among the T5 picks now, whilel Arms still Bottom 5 picks an B-Tier to subcreation. When i look at the raw dmg output i can tell you for exampe:

DHT Ret max: 311,993.0
DHT Arms max: 257,537.8

Rise Ret: 244,666.7
Rise Arms: 211,509.7

Waycrest Ret: 298,865.4
Waycrest Arms: 264,586.5

i could go on with this. But i hope now you see the difference - while Arms isnt even on the level Ret was BEFORE the buffs, Ret still got big buffs and was before taken due to his insane Utility and frontloaded damage. Arms is not comparable with Ret at all, its far weaker and it brings way less. Only in the first Everbloom pull it may outdps a Ret, which i wouldnt be sure about aswell.

4 Likes
31

I’m doing more dps on my 460 ret than i do on my 480 arms warrior ret is next level busted though after the buffs its basically the same as dh at the beginning of the patch only rets would defend it

2 Likes
32

I am not comparing it to arms.

Danger NEVER EVER use subcreaton as to look at power levels of different specs it is a very wrong way to look at things subcreation is a POPULARITY contest.

Also

FAR FAR to early to judge after the buff anyway.
You do not even have 1week of data to compare things here so that in of itself is junk data.

So literally EVERY single DPS number you bring up here is WORTHLESS there is no point in me even addressing them here because you fail to understand how little they are worth yet.
And because you did not wait literally every number is changed by me reading this now 4hours later.
Also in dungeons using arms as a meter and comparing it to ret is a bad move as most play fury and that invalidates a lot of how strong arms actually is as most of the actual good players will just play whatever is strongest and that being fury means arms will look even worse then it actually is if those people actually played arms.
While the only dps spec paladin has is ret.

Just FYI Storm bolt is a 4second stun that does damage is ranged and is half the cooldown of HOJ.
I would love if blizzard removed the damage and made it 6seconds like HoJ with a cooldown of 45seconds as it is a talent.

This right here is the main problem with warrior THIS HOWEVER WILL NOT CHANGE IN A PATCH it is a EXPANSION level change or a MASSIVE rework to how the class works.
Keep on asking for the changes you actually need.

Your whole post is first of all worthless as i am not the one comparing ret to arms in the first place.
Secondly, because your numbers is taken without actually understanding what is going on you fail and the numbers have no meaning.
Thirdly i Really dislike that RET paladin is the ONLY spec in the game that has the whole utility matters so dps must be lower problem, you where NOT here when Mage got buffed by 8-10% when they where the same spot and still was 100% in the top mythic + keys.
You are not complaining about Rogues who has more utility and more damage nono you complain about ret paladin because reasons.

Why is it that you NEED ret paladin to be bad dps 100% of the time?
What is it specially about Ret that makes you need to complain if it ever is decent for 1 patch?
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AND just to you specifically, i want warrior to be good i want warrior to have utility because i like playing warrior, but utility is not something you get in a minor patch normally and at least up until this expansion would be an expansion level change.
.
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Then you suck on the warrior assuming single target.
If you talk about aoe Ret does not scale well with gear and you are not going to see much difference between a 460ret and a 480 ret other then trinkets and legendary.
It is also important to understand this was a single target buff for ret it is important that you look at Single target things not bringing aoe into it.

33

It shows which speccs time the most an highest keys. you can search out manually on rio so:

Highest AD Key Ret: 30
Highest AD Key Arms: 29

Highest Tott Key Ret: 29
Highest Tott Key Arms: 27

and so on

it ofc shows overall, which class is performing better since its stat related.

you can set wcl to “1 day” and just compare. It ofc tells the way anyways…

one of a few helpful things a warrior can bring and NEEDS to be skilled, other then HOJ (correct me if im wrong here).

this is true, but for this Warro needs to bring something extra to the table, like one of the best damage profiles in recent addons. Now there are most melee the better choice.

I do understand what is going on and as i said, there are enough parses already from the span of 1 day, just research. Pure maths saying, i wont repeat what you could read in my comment before.

34

It is sad that you do not understand popularity contests means people will try different things when they get buffed, you made this post 1 day after the patch happened.

And that does not give you actual information that matters because it has WIDE swings day to day you need at least 1 week of data you want 2 weeks of data to actually get the real information.
You talking about Numbers when you look at 1day is worthless information as even between when you made your post and i made mine there was more then 40 000dps difference in the numbers.

You talked numbers before numbers matter at all.
As an example

and

And you said these was average numbers on the raid.

While right now as i am writing this 242,669.94 is the average number on Ret and 235,008.59 is the average number on Arms.
Let us give you the benefit of doubt and say ret got a complete buff of 5% here and arms only got a 2% buff.

That means the ret number would be 230 536.443dps. before getting 5% buff.
While the Arms number would be 230 308.4182dps. before getting 2% buff.
When we remove the buffs.
We are talking on average a difference of 200dps in mythic raid.
And you did say this:

This is just wrong based on simple maths.

Let us do the same thing on 95%
Ret got 269,639.83 on there.
Arms got 261,535.61 on there.

Ret before the buff would be 256 157.8385 dps .
Arms before the buff would be 256 304.8978 dps.

The difference is even smaller at around 150dps difference in the 95th percentile.
But Arms dps is always above what ret dps was before the buff.
There is no possible way for you to be right in your statement, based on the numbers you want me to use.

The highest keys is NOT about dps it is about survivability this season as most specs have the dps to do the keys at even the highest level it is about not being dead.
But also you are IGNORING that Warrior has 2 dps specs here and Fury warrior is doing 31 key level here.

Also Remember the number 2 highest Ret paladin in the world on Raider IO runs with a dps warrior in the group and that warrior (critcake is “only” number 4 in the world)

35

Problem is that ret buff was also needed. I don’t blame them for buffing ret that much , i blame them for ignoring warrior .
2H str / plate dps needs serious love and we are not getting that for a long time at this point

1 Like
36

cmon man ret is braindead now damage is massively overtuned its making bad players look decent in pvp and pve

2 Likes
37

I see you have not played Ret, Arms or Fury warrior.
You should not speak before you do.
But not surprised that you are hiding behind a classic char while saying this.

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