So overall we get a 4-5% damage buff, which brings us barely on par with fury.
Meanwhile you buff the b-jesus out of Ret AoE, a class that already brings way more utility to raids/M+ … what stops blizzard from letting arms (and fury) actually be good, especially in a patch where we get a legendary (presumably, I’m at 8 hc Fyrakk kills and I couldn’t tell you if that axe exists).
Besides, I would also like to point out that the class fantasy of Arms is dead. We are a master of arms, not a single talent makes me feel like I care about what weapon I have equipped or makes me feel like a master tactician. There are barely 3 abilities that I would describe as iconic, even less than those feel like they play into the class fantasy at all … at least fury has Rampage, Bloodthirst, Raging Blow, Deathwish, etc. and a playstyle that induces carpal tunnel to match the theme.
Is there actually a team looking at warriors at all, or are we completely unattended, just because we still boast high player numbers (cause warriors have always and will always be a classic fantasy class that some people just naturally pivot to).
As someone who has played my warrior as a main for almost the entire life span of WoW, I don’t think I’ve ever felt so irrelevant, especuially as Arms.
I guess it might just be our time to be in the dumpster, but I’m telling you, this is probably gonna turn me away from the game, cause I ain’t switching mains.
9 Likes
Idk man either they cooking dh lvl talent reworked or they actually hate warriors for whatever reason.
Looking at shadow priest buffs a range spec with omgea utilities and pi, already have great execute phase with even just few talents. And looking at arms waisting 8 talents worth just to be normal single target and doing ok damage in execute. Idk man i love the theme of warriors i loved arms to death in shadowlands was super super fun and i don’t even raid a lot with it but ever since df came arms felt bad to play in open world in lvling in m+ in arena and in raids in feels like you running around getting carried untill execute phase. There is something wrong with arms talents. This is the first time i don’t feel like coming to raid nights or launch wow.
2 Likes
I feel ya. As said, never felt so irrelevant … it’s so demoralizing when you feel like a detriment to the group, even though you know you use your toolkit pretty effectively.
They obviously didn’t buff Fury because Fury ranks high in the raid, the pathetic buff to Arms I have no idea but consider that it took them this long to buff Arms while Ret also got buffed in the previous set of tuning.
There is no real logic behind it, they probably just don’t see the point in buffing Arms because Fury is good, and they don’t see the point in buffing Fury because it’s doing well in the raid, and I doubt they are thinking it much more deeply than that. If they had nerfed the clearly overtuned specs, that would have made more sense.
2 Likes
the buffs are not close to enough ret is getting bigger buffs and it was already solid a tier blizzard incompetence strikes again.
Feels like feminists are running Blizzard now. They see/hear warrior and instantly get triggered. They can’t stand a class that portays manliness and testosterone. Thats the only thing that would make sense to me on why warrior is so unattended.
6 Likes
This is literally false information it is at max a 3% increase to Aoe the buff is to Single target.
Interestingly it is around a 5% single target buff on a spec that has way low single target.
The buffs is getting is literally on the same level as Arms at 5%. it is literally max difference on the buffs is 1%
If this is the case the Arms is getting around the same dps increase from this buff then Ret is getting. (though arms doing more aoe with its buff)
I am happy for Arms getting buffs why do you feel the need to drag down another struggling spec when you should want both to be buffed because they both need it.
Why do you do this?
Don’t get how ret is a struggling spec tbh it’s great with the legendary axe it’s also way better in m+ than arms it was already a tier this buff wasn’t really needed
The only thing that makes sense to me is Blizzard is tuning on two things
- Raid (not M+ at all)
- Season 4
Because Ret is amazing in M+ but in the raid on single target it’s not so great, and soon enough we will be in season 4 where scaling is a factor and the claim is that Ret doesn’t scale well, I don’t really know about that. Arms buffs are weird because they buffed OP when OP is already a high prio cast, they didn’t fix Bladestorm, Execute is still too weak and the set bonus buff is useless to us in S4 because they are dropping S3 set.
I think S3 set is great, and tuned up a little it would have been beautiful, but they tuned it up after it lost the vote? meh.
You get it wrong, we are not asking for Ret to be let down. We are asking what the f is going on in the balance team when Arms is bottom tier (just above Evoker dps spec) and receive a really weak buff while Ret is receiving high % improvement. Seems the major problem is they only review Raid charts which is irrelevant data for M+ where most Arms players struggle to just get by & Rets are in a really good spot.
The overall % buff is not 5%, another post in the forum detailed the buff expected, it’s next to nothing to put Arms spec back into a correct spot.
If this is truly the case then fine it is not what it sounds like you are doing and i know there are many who is not doing that.
Also from Skyhold the warrior discord "Somewhere around a 3-3.5% buff in ST, maybe 6% in MT (highly dependent on build & key), and the Cleave buff "
That is the buffs % numbers that the warrior theory crafters are saying.
FYI
The ret buffs are 5% single target and 2-3% aoe, we are talking buffs that are very similar to each other.
If the Arms buffs is weak buffs then so is the Ret buffs
But i will tell you this the last time Ret was considered good was in Legion.
Ret is the Worst dps spec to play taking history into account all the way back to WoD it is the actual worst spec to do good damage on and that is based on warcraftlogs and Ret has an inbuilt mechanic that makes them look better at the start of a patch then they actually are.
Ret has never been Meta in M+ from the start of M+ history.
The thing about ret is that Ret sacrifices a lot of single target damage to do any kind of aoe damage so to compensate you need to buff single target damage to get ret into a similar state to Other dps specs.
These buffs just makes ret closer to other specs in how they are doing things.
But it is also interesting you are picking Ret while you are ignoring that both Frost and Unholy DK is getting a 4% dps increase flat.
Unholy DK is already doing more dps then Ret right now before the buffs in M+.
It is called single target
i do decent single target on my ret and its only low ilvl and ret single target is still far better than arms
1 Like
Correction: The Arms buff is nowhere near as good as the ret one. I calculated the ST improvement on my best Logs (95-99 Percentiles on M Volcoross) and gained somewhere between 1,5-2% DPS on ST with optimal substats. The 5% estimates are incorrect and stem from people who play fury warrior who swap to arms with 36% mastery and sim themselves with terrible substats that benefit deep wounds and overpower. Sims with high Haste and crit (which is what you run on arms) have the buffed passives do way less damage compared to the heavy hitters (Mortal & Execute), which is still more optimal than running high mastery & vers. This buff mainly benefits the worse substats on ST, but does little to help the upper DPS cap, which is the lowest in the game.
I am happy to see Ret get a buff, god help us plate users. The point though, is that blizz are completely clueless. They either don’t understand the data or have no idea how ineffective the tools they buffed were because all the other (4%) aura buffs to other bad specs are better for ST than what the worst spec in the game got.
Personal anecdotes are terrible to use precisely because of this situation.
I do decent single target as Arms and Fury with crap gear on my warrior.
When i was the same ilvl on ret i did far worse dps single target then what i do on my warrior.
Ok sure but i will believe the Class THEORY crafter more easily then someone like yourself.
Archimtiros On your own class discord is the one who are saying these numbers.
Why is it not a pinned message fixing these numbers?
But sure you might be correct i know to little about it to have a big opinion but it is weird that the theory crafters are wrong in this as that means Simcraft would be wrong Raidbots would be wrong and more.
If you are correct though hopefully that means arms will get another buff next week or the week after to correct for this.
you should s fury but arms was behind ret and probably still is
The problem is that Arc has not provided any calculations to support his argument. There were others in the discord who did, and got similar numbers to him. I checked their distribution and found that their overpower and deep wounds contributions were way too high, which is either a result of their substats or them cleaving other targets (which is misleading on ST estimates). They also made a bunch of basic errors like not knowing that a 200% increase is a tripling from a base value and not quadruple.
Theorycrafters are not infallible, Arc makes mistakes too. Sometimes the stat prios don’t align with other sources. I distinctly remember him suggesting picking a 1% crit talent over Thunder roar CDR in S1 for M+ which was just flat out the wrong pick.
I just know that the true effect is in pure ST with my stats, i don’t have any idea what this does for more cleave intensive fights. Who knows, maybe these crazy estimates are averages on all fights, where people consider cleave as a part of ST (like igira). Without any transparency though, its hard to tell. And i mean… even if he is right about that estimate 3-3,5% is still the worst of all the buffs and it was given to the bottom spec.
Dont know wich retri u play but ye those buffs u get on wednesday are massive and u are atm in a fairly good place ST/AOE
I might want to clarify, my 4-5% estimate stems from my own M+ logs and analyzing the damage profile and how much each buff should affect it.
I run 33% haste/30% crit/33% mastery. Not because because I play fury (trust me I wish i could), but it sims and works best for me in a mostly multitarget environment.
Still I agree this buff is not gonna help us much, if at all, especially if it mostly affects AoE situations. That’s not exactly our weak point. Besides it’s too little of a buff anyway to make us relevant either in raids or M+ …
This is irrelevant personal annecdotes are not good to use.
Oh and also i have done the math on myself on single target i get a 5.05% increase in dps.
The buffs are 5% single target 2-3% AoE damage that is the numbers that would be accurate
If these buffs are massive then the Arms buffs are very big.
In AOE yes in Single target NO literally NOTHING has changed with Ret single target from when the rework to the spec happened and the DPS numbers in single target is the lowest in the game when you are in m+ build.
That is a fact that even wowhead has had an article on.
So if you are going to argue that Rets single target and Aoe at the same time is good you need to show how that is.