Arms playstyle changes in Shadowlands

As stated by blizzard, they wanted to push everything early in Alpha so changes can be made in time if they were needed.

Right now, the vision of arms warrior is actually good, besides the mastery, however the mastery needn’t be something that averts big hit lovers if it was kept but had additional functionality that players can elaborate upon and interact with, and so I came up with this comprehensive list that follows the changes in shadowlands and how should arms warrior play in the upcoming expansion.

The first thing I’d like to address, and it is pivotal for the class is the mastery.

A bleeding foe is a weekend foe, and this is what an arms warrior should be all about, by keeping the mastery : deep wounds but changing it’s functionality such that it grants increased damage taken and rage generation on the bleeding target with a *niche

Mastery : Deep Wounds : Certain abilities cause the target to bleed profusely, weakening them and making them take more damage and causing your auto attacks and rage generators to generate more rage, the bleed goes into three phases and additional instances of the bleed causes the bleed to become a deep wound, causing the target to bleed for massive damage over 6 seconds and during that period additional bleeds cannot be applied.

Minor bleeding : Target bleeds for a minor amount of damage, causing the warrior’s attacks to deal x% more damage and generate y% more rage.

Moderate bleeding : Target bleeds for a moderate amount of damage, causing the warrior’s attacks to deal 2x% more damage and generate 2y% more damage.

Severe bleeding : Target bleeds for a sever amount of damage, causing the warrior’s attacks to deal 3x% more damage and generate 3y% more damage.

Deep wounds : Target bleeds for a huge amount of damage over 6 seconds, cannot be refreshed and no additional bleeds can be inflicted while the target is in deep wounds.

This will do two things, it will switch arms to being a tactical class, were you have both huge front loaded damage AND backloaded damage, just not present at the same time, it will add deep thinking to how to plan your damage and causes you to play like an opportunist, the idea is that the dots are 6 seconds, you want to use each 6 seconds window to do something unique, be it build up rage, or deal devastating blows, or try to finish off a heavily wounded opponent.

The idea lends some elements of the insignia system combat rogues had in MoP, but builds upon it and is abit more deeper than it.

Now on to the playstyle it self.

Rage Generation

Rage generation will come from these sources.

  1. Auto attack
  2. Charge
  3. Herioc Throw
  4. Shield slam
  5. Skullsplitter if talented
  6. Execute refunds

Damage dealing

The damage from the warrior will come from a myriad of things as listed below

  1. Mortal strike ( 50 rage )

A medium hitting ability that wounds the target, causing them to bleed, if the target is already bleeding it will advance the bleed to the next level. mortal strikes damage gains a multiplier to the bleed state of the hit target as follows

Minor bleeding : Mortal strike deals 20% increased damage
Moderate bleeding : Mortal strike deals 50% increased damage
Severe bleeding : Mortal strike deals 100% increased damage

The idea is mortal strike is the core of the spec, it starts hitting small and is used to advance to the next phase, having increased damage on bleeding targets along the mastery increase will make it deal a super heavy blow at the last phase and causing the last bleed phase in which it will no longer apply bleeds.

There are times where you want to hold up on it, times where you want to use it and generally it’s usage is dependent on the situation you want, do you have a lot of range and wanna expend it before delivering a final strong blow ? or do you wanna move to the next phase quickly.

  1. Slam ( 10 rage )

Slam is a medium hitting ability, it costs 10 rage, but slams cast within the next 10 seconds deal more damage and consume more rage, this stacks up and refreshes until no slam is used within the next 10 seconds.

The idea is that you build your slams, and then you deliver a huge slam in severe bleeding phase, but you need to be careful as you want to have high enough rage to use mortal strike before the bleeding stops.

  1. Overpower ( no rage cost, 10 seconds cooldown, reduced by haste )

Overpower deals damage proportional to your slam stacks, and resets them, the idea is that it’s a finisher, it cannot be dodged, parried and does not miss, it also bypasses immunities and absorbs.

The idea, overpower is the reward for how smart the warrior played, a perfect ideal setup would be a 100 rage slam > overpower > mortal strike and which the warrior will expend three very heavy hits, but it’s not a feat easily pulled, and only the smartest and best warriors can pull it especially under hectic environments.

  1. Execute ( 100 rage, no cooldown )

Execute does exactly what its name implies, the warrior will try to execute the enemy by delivering a massive blow if used on a target with deep wounds, execute will deal damage as if striking on a fourth bleed phase, if the target dies then 50 rage will be refunded.

  1. Herioc throw ( generates 10 rage, 10 seconds cooldown, reduced by haste , 8-30 yd range )

Herioc throw deals moderate damage, if charge is cast within the next 3 seconds, an additional 10 rage is generated, if no charge is cast but an auto attack hits within the next 2 seconds, 20 rage is generated.

Herioc throw deals a good amount of damage if played correctly, it’s a gap closer, a range generator and is generally to be used while going for a charge in between auto attacks, however it has underlying depth

Charge at phase 3 will probably fill your rage anyway, so the warrior will want to dump rage > go out and charge > dump rage > go out and heroic throw > dump rage, playing this perfectly will cause the warrior to deal massive damage.

  1. Cleave ( 50 rage )

Cleave is basically a weaker version of mortal strike, but instead cleaves all targets infront of the warrior, has the same functionality as mortal strike.

  1. Whirlwind ( 15 rage )

Whirlwind is a heavy 360 aoe hitter, it is like slam but on aoe, hence the higher rage cost and acts similar to slam with more rage cost and damage per stack.

  1. Thunderclap ( No rage cost, 10 seconds cooldown, reduced by haste )

Thunderclap is basically overpower, on all enemies it rewards the warrior for playing it out correctly.

  1. Shield slam ( generates 30 rage, 10 seconds cooldown, reduced by haste )

Shield slam is a medium blow, it deals a good amount of damage and generates rage, generally a warrior will want to use it when they’re armoring up and preparing for when the opportunity comes and the best of warriors will weave in a shield slam during downtime to generate rage.

  1. Bladestorm ( 90 seconds cooldown )

Huge damage dealing ability, slams your main target every 2 seconds, does not build or refresh slam stacks.

Gameplay

The warrior gameplay will be that of an opportunist, the idea is they have many tools to generate rage, and many tools to expend it, but where do they want to expend their rage is the question.

The idea is, you want to dump huge amounts of rage in the third bleed phase, but you also don’t want to be rage starved and not able to move phases quickly once deepwounds ends or you’ll have huge downtime.

This gives a risk reward system, and generally rewards good judgement.

Am I going to kill the enemy? dump rage.
Is the enemy going to survive? dump rage smartly.

For M+ the warrior generally will want to have near max rage at the end of a fight, so they can skip two phases quickly and move to the last phase, but if they do that they might become rage starved for the next fight or maybe the mobs die too fast or or or or… that’s the cool thing about it, the player’s judgement plays a huge role here.

This gameplay means that warrior won’t always be a huge frontload damaging monster, it means they can be in a window of opportunity, and the bleeding will help offset that, the idea is that bleeds are going to help the warrior deal damage instead of doing it, but also will help tune the warrior so they don’t go around one shotting people with no counter play.

The idea should be that if a warrior manages to pull of a 100 rage slam > overpower > mortal in the third bleed phase, the target should be dead / near dead unless they had a defensive, stopping a warrior from achieving that should be the enemy’s concern in PvP, and so the counterplay to warriors is to watch your own bleed phase and know when to pop defensives / stun the warrior etc.

This way, not many changes to the shadowlands toolkit is needed, and a healthy balance between frontload and backload damage can be struck, I’m no dev, but in my opinion this playstyle for arms would make it a fun spec and probably please both bleed and heavy hit lovers.

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One simple idea I had for mastery would be that arms mastery now increases the damage you deal with critical strikes, increased by mastery.

This’d of course mean that we’d need some critical strike interactions with our abilities- Such as overpower having a high chance to crit, as well as most abilities having a high baseline damage.

2 Likes

I don’t understand all the hate towards the bleeding mastery. It fits the class fantasy very vell. Bleeding for warriors, poison for rogues, etc. And it’s a great way to do some damage while we can’t connect to the target because of all the bad stuff on the ground we constantly have to circumvent.

All your changes makes Arms even more clunky. Damage window is pushed even further behind than it is now with the colossus buff + if we can’t connect to the target, there is literally zero damage.

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It’s a proposed change if blizzard is insisting on keeping the mastery, and works pretty well with the given shadowlands toolkit.

The reason warriors HATE bleeds is because bleeds and passive damage make the majority of our dps.

When a class has been the " heavy hitter " for 13 years then suddenly they are turned into a bleed spec, when there is 2 other bleed specs ofc we won’t like it.

I’m wielding a huge 2 handed weapon, not carving knives.

Ofc, bleeds as a product of dealing big blows is welcome, and adds to the fantasy and also solves being too oneshotty of a spec in PvP.

But the bleeds being everything for the spec, especially when the bleeds are uncontrolable, sucks.

What as arms rotation? you just play and don’t even care about deep wounds.

Deep wounds is just there.

2 Likes

doesn’t that make it crit 2?

I’ll try to explain why I hate it

We apply it by using mortal strike, execute, or bladestorm. We were always going to push those buttons anyway, but now that there’s a bleed attached, all of the damage that would’ve been on those abilities is stretched out. It feels less immediate and hard hitting, and we can clearly see that they used this as a balance bandaid, baseline mastery is 90%.

Took all my gear off and it’s 90%, if I equip a ring with 182 mastery it goes up to 121%. No other stat needs to be that high baseline. Crit baseline is 5%, and the other stats don’t show one at all. From my perspective they’ve misused this bleed mastery to lazily balance the spec.

Mastery: Deep Wounds pisses me off because I love Arms, and it deserves more attention than that.

And sorry. Bleed does not fit arms class fantasy. Think about it. You hit with huuuge bones crushing 2h mace and target only gets little scratch where it bleeds.

5 Likes

It interacts very heavily with crit- But, it makes crit as a stat more valuable than it usually is. Further, it emphasises the idea of big, hard hits on arms without having to rely on dumb window of opportunity iterations.

Also its very simple to balance and actually forces Blizzard to make ability and talent interactions for our abilities. Further, if our rage generation stays as it is, even if we have less haste, autoattacks will on average generate good amount of rage since you get more from critting.

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The main problem is that the Bleed is a work-around that feels strange because we would otherwise have high damage and a healing debuff in one spammable spell, which would be a balance nightmare.

The solution is to make MS its own ability,

  • Mortal Strike: 30 Rage, instant, 30 sec cooldown, 10? sec duration: Applies a bleed to the target, as long as the Bleed persists the target takes damage over time and all the healing they receive is lowered by 25%.

And the replace Mortal Strike with

  • Heroic Strike: 30 Rage, instant, 6 sec cd. Deals X damage to the target and applies a small Bleed on them.

Then we could get rid of the Mastery: Deep Wounds since we no longer have neither together.

This could tie into a larger revamp.

  • Auto-attack: Generates reduced Rage, no longer generates additional Rage when it crits.

  • Overpower: Instantly attack the target for X damage, Cannot be dodge, blocked, or parried. Generates X Rage when used.

  • Tactician: Has X chance pr. Rage to reset the cooldown of Overpower. Applies a stacking buff of +X% every time there’s no proc. When this ability procs this buff is reset.

  • Tactician is now a starting Arms Warrior ability.

  • Mastery: Overpower: Increases the damage of Overpower by X.

Warriors in general are Builder-Spenders and if you compare their class-mechanics to every other Builder-Spender spec in the game, even internally, Arms is the only one where the Builder part is totally passive base-line. There’s no involvement at all with getting Rage as Arms you just wait for Auto-attack to happen and then Spend.

Making Overpower a more reliable thing to happen would also make the Talent Juggernaut better and more tempting to take.

Fury has Builders in the form of Bloodthirst, Raging Blow and in a pinch Whirlwind.

Prot uses Shield Slam as a Builder in addition to generating Rage by taking damage.

Arms has Auto-attack and there’s no involvement. If you have no Rage and no Overpower to use then you just have to wait and do nothing for a duration of Your Swing-timer-Haste before you can do anything and that’s unengaging gameplay.

3 Likes

True, the mastery could be tuned down a bit. maybe 20-25% of our total damage while buffing the instant damage. I’m ok with that. But the complete removal? Nah.

No matter whether I hit someone with a huge 2h Hammer or Sword, there will be bleeding. Either internal or external. I still think it fits the warrior class, even if this wasn’t the case the last 13 years.

Btw, we have Skullsplitter as a rage builder which should be baseline also. And Overpower is proccing pretty regularly to serve as a good filler.

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This just proves that even though everyone is entitled to their own opinion opinions can still be wrong especially when they’re had with no connection to reality.

That’s good for you. I’ve personally run into multiple times where it’s never procced at all and I had to go full OP CDs for me to use OP again, for anyone not aware that’s 12 seconds. In those 12 seconds I used enough Rage to combined give Tactician about 180% chance to proc. I’ve also had times where it chain-procced. One of those made me feel useful and the other just bored me to death, guess which did what? That’s just how unprotected math works. 55% chance to succeed can fail 100% of the time.

Also “proccing plenty.” Either you’ve been incredibly lucky with the percentages or you have “success-bias.” I guess it’s the later where you only remember the good times because you want to.

Whether it procs or not kinda doesn’t matter.

There will be times when you don’t even use it because you wanna build up ToM.

In the end it’s about ~5% of your dps, and increases your mortal strike dps from 8% to about 9%.

They might aswell triple the mortal strike buff and only then you might notice a little bit of difference.

That’s now. In Shadowlands there will be no ToM. This thread is about Shadowlands and I’m thinking Shadowlands and forward. I’ve no interest in rental powers that define a spec as I find them lazy design. Rental powers should add to an already existing mechanic instead of adding a new one.

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Besides building ToM my execute rotation often looks like this when im rage starving:

exec > overpower > exec > overpower > exec > skullsplitter > exec > exec > …

It’s not rare for overpower to proc after every execute. I must be lucky in every bossfight then lol

I agree 100%. With deep wounds arms warrior lost its uniqueness for me

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