I completely agree with you
I have different experiences. Maybe it is like that on higher keys where I havenât played yet.
I donât think it is horrible design to be punished for deaths on the highest difficulty. It is what drives perfection play and encourages to get better at not dying.
In other games it is no different. Thatâs the part of each game where you simply shouldnât die if you want to succeed.
Ehh, donât listen to that complainer. Has either obviously no idea what he/she is talking about or is just mad in general at the game.
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You havenât even done island expeditions at the start of BFA. You HAD to kill the horde team or you were losing it, you werenât winning that race at the start.
You canât even pull some decent damage as a retri.
So donât talk about people having âno idea what theyâre talking aboutâ.
L m a o.
The guy that fails to time +4s and does less than healer DPS is talking about m+.
not realy, in vanilla the only real hard part was to get 40 man to do a boss, once you knew what to do and none lagged, or had a dc, most bosses where not to complicated, biggest problem in vanilla was the tuning of the bosses and it beeing 40 man raids.
compare that to know, where bosses have a lot of one shot mechanics and even one person doing a mistake you can or will wipe, even on normal, and this is realy bad game design, normal should not ever have theese kind of mechanics, that is for heroic and mythic. one shot mechanics in normal is not good, yes there is LFR and people could argue you should be there for none one shot mechanics, but LFR should not be counted at all in this, becuse that is more or less just there to se the raid not much else.
as I said in this topic before is that, raids should be more linear, where normal is where you learn the mechanics but no boss should be able to wipe a raid due to one mistake from one person, though I do think normal should have same mechanics as heroic, heroic should be where people progress raids, and mythic as it is now would not even be needed at all, this was the case at first and it worked fine.
though best way to design raids would be the ulduar style where you can choose your own difficulty on bosses, becuse it worked fine, and people where happy. doing that and you could remove LFR and Mythic all together and instead make people choose what difficult level they want to do a boss on, whit no silly locks on raid difficulty.
like you do first boss on hardest mode, next on third hardest, then rest on normal or even easy mode if you so want to.
also if there has to be some sort of world first, it should be seperate from wow servers, where guilds can opt in to, but every person only get 2 classes to choose from, and they are pre geard, and only thing you can do whit those chars are that one particular raid, and to get world first, you have to clear every boss on hardest mode and only 1 shot per week, but you can do them easier for gear for next week.
this would meen Blizzard could tune all the classes and raids on the real servers way better also.
heck this could be done for battlegrounds and world pvp also, where you always start with a new set of gear that you have to use, and then earn rewars, what can not be done on any normal server at all.
2 Likes
Depends. If you skip with Wo then itâs almost always game over since you canât do skip again, if someoneâs only interested in pushing score then they will leave. But I agree at 15 and lower this happens rarely - mostly because I tank and I never use Wo when I pug 
Punish is OK, but not oneshotting whole raid. I hated Ilgynoth mythic, I hated Xanesh mythic.
Perfection is bad. No one is perfect and game causing people to chase perfection is bad.
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Iâm not quite sure in which world being bad at the game and clearing +20s go hand to hand. Unless the player is being boosted that is. 
if +15 are that easy for you why dont you do +20 for example ?
oh wait - they are so easy because you are overgeared , people you do them with are overgeared and all of you are overskilled for that content.
such a surpriese they are soooooooo easy 
again ? if you act so cocky on forums where are your +20s this season ? after all you are so pro bro and those dungeons are supposedly sooo easy this season .
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the point is m+ system is flawed. well not flawed but its based on amount of dungeons you run
if you run enough groups eventually you will find groups good enough to time dungeon regardless of your skills.
thats why saying that someone has timed X difficulty means really nothing much - unless they have like 150+ timed +20s or something.
Why would I do 20s when the rewards stop at +15?
Yeah, so overgeared. People could obtain pretty close to those ilvls from the previous season. My ilvl was definitely obtainable last season, because I was well beyond that on my shaman.
Yep, overgeared.
This one we had a guy be DCâd for over 8 minutes and still timed it.
Maybe youâre not as good as you think you are? Oh well, I know you arenât considering what you post on mmo-champion as well. And considering what you were running as talents on your druid and saying you couldnât keep ironfur up⊠Oh lawd, I can understand why you would think itâs hard to do 15s. I shouldnât even have said anything about your talents, I should just let you have been running around with brambles and not understand why your rage generation sucks.
Just an excerpt from what youâre posting on mmo-champion
so they completly failed the launch of new season of m+ overtuning them and now they buff it even further because everything scales from m0
just wow. one more prove that this is season to skip[/quote]
from curiosity tried couple of dungeons. jezus this affix is terrible . its so messy and clunky .
dungeons tunign is horrible too. after tier for casual players its tuned again much harder so elitest dont whine.
definetly season to skip if you are casual player
actually whole 9.2 is patch to ignore if you are casual .
Like, lol.
This is also golden before the season started;
+15s wont be tuned anywhere near 280
this season i got KSM while being 233 itlv was doing 15s since 227 . im sure i will manage somehow
so +18 it is :0 super easy regardless of anything now that everyone is 252
and then free what 278 itlv ? niice
Yet here you are, struggling at 12s.
people with big egos abusing votekick when you dont do a âmechanicâ in a lfr fight
ruin wow
oh sorry who are you to tell me how to play my class im there for tier on my alts
getting stupid half runs if dbm says fear stay away from others=yeah i do that
so idk whats your problem but if you have big ego+farming tier do that outside lfr
imagine removing a casual for stupid reason and everyone agrees
3 Likes
How in earth is Raid NM hard? They keep nerfing it and now itâs just a walk, why would you nerf it even more? That will just end up at making raiding even more boring.
Why would you delete Mythic Raiding? Just because you canât do it??
Then if you canât do +15 just delete those keys and give more rewards on a +10?
If you are not good at raiding there is LFR for a reason, for people that doesnât like/ isnât able to do that type of content on higher levels.
Stop blaming RWF because you donât know when to soak, where to move.
Very âarguablyâ because thatâs all down to subjectivity.
I donât think any MMORPG has done an overal better job than WoW has (to be clear: That doesnât mean there arenât certain aspects or areas where thereâs other MMORPGs who have done it better).
Itâs not even about it being hard, itâs about it being complex.
Thereâs just way too much complexity being thrown into encounters nowadays. Imo anyway.
And thatâs the issue, because the mechanics and complexity of the mythic raid trickles down into the easier difficulties and thus raises the overal complexity in all raid forms, even LFR.
I would say: Make raids more basic overal (and that doesnât mean easier perse - hard gear checks can take the place of âcomplex minigame mechanicsâ) and add mythic only phases for every boss.
Those phases can include as much complexity as youâd like, because those wonât be part of the other difficulties.
2 Likes
Normal doesnât have these kind of mechanics. On most of our early kills, multiple people made mistakes, and we still killed it. If youâre wiping on normal, itâs because a lot of people are making major mistakes. If you think a wipe happens because of one mistake, youâre deluding yourself.
Even if a boss has a mechanic that can one shot an individual player who screws up, that does not mean it will wipe the whole group. You seem to be confusing the two.
Heroic is where the more competent players progress raids. Normal is where the less competent players can learn, improve, and feel that theyâre progressing.
LFR is where you get to see the most basic mechanics and can practice doing them without the risk of dying if you screw up.
Sounds depressing. It would strip raiding of the sense of progression that provides the glue to keep groups working together to overcome challenges as a team.
That would require Blizz to âsponsorâ and endorse the RWF, which they donât. Raiding isnât like mythic plus or arena, which has an eSport associated with it (MDI/AWC). Blizz doesnât organise or promote the RWF, and this is something people who whine about it seem to forget. They donât encourage it, endorse it, or promote it, and they donât set out to tune content around it (if they did, they wouldnât have time gated the last 3 bosses of the current raid).
So you just want a Guardian of The First Ones like bosses, a dummy to hit it hard and instead of adding mechanics, just make it bulkier, then in mythic put 10 mechanics at the same time.
I donât feel like RWF is guilty of people not able to learn just the basics. The hardest bosses in here are the Lords (majority of the difficulty is the Amongus) and Anduin (this one being way harder than The Jailer, imo), the thing is i feel like we are used to get the things the fast and easy way so if you want someone to hit a ball because if not itâs a wipe (Rygelon) is too hard.
Iâve been playing FF for just a year before playing WoW, and I tested just the Crystal Tower, maybe the only thing I saw that looks like a Raid, IMO Bosses were like you wanted it to be. Mostly dummies that after X seconds do an ability and then just keep hitting them until they are dead, rinse and repeat. (Emperor being a good example(?)), fights were graphically beautiful and amazing, but mechanically not so for me.
Raids are good for me as they are, watching people wiping at Nathria dance was hilarious and that shows how basic we are getting, that canât even play a Simon says. But as you said, to each its own.
Hereâs my solution to the RWF race.
Template characters, gear and consumables -all on a competition server with no addons. Sounds extreme but if you take away the programmers and the insane amount of gold that gets plugged into the race then the devâs wonât have to over tune the raids or have mechanics overlapping to such a degree.
3 Likes
They donât doing to learn fight cause there is less mechanics then in normal and hc and they are different. If you played LFR you know itâs not best experience, imagine lfr without DBM?!
But IF would be possible to learn fight through LFR i think more people would be play raids. Raiding in WoW outside the guilds itâs mostly bad and frustrating experience.
The last time we were able to get good numbers was in Mists, because of the achievement changes.
But
a) I donât think the pattern changed much and
b) the pattern is consistent with what numbers we have been able to see since
So, from https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3984-Armory-Stats-Siege-of-Orgrimmar-Progression-Blue-Tweets-DLC-439
P.S. You do ofc have to remember that weâve had a renaming since: Flex became âNormalâ, Normal became âHeroicâ, Heroic became âMythicâ.
2 Likes
mythic being hard for RWF is fine , blizz always nerf it later
but its true that mythic raiding is only for a few % players.