Assassination Rogue needs a damage buff

Hi,

Assassination Rogue is not in a good spot right now. We have very low survivability, and at the same time do not have good damage throughput compared to other melee classes. The outcome is that we cannot really participate in a lot of PvP now. In solo shuffle we get targeted because we are easy to kill, and we are not feared, because our damage output is much lower than the current melee gods of PvP. The outcome is that you feel weak and useless as a rogue at the moment. We are outclassed by Feral Druids, and they have more to offer than us, because they can tank in Bear Form, off-heal and kite.

Please do something about this class.

3 Likes

sure. buff class what was dominated the meta since release. Come to realize there are classes what was good never and after several rogue nerfs they stay at the bottom still. what about to buff them ?

1 Like

The current problem of assassination rogues stem from some dynamical facts. The problem is survivability and damage time. Let us evaluate the two types:

Direct Damage vs DoT Damage.

In the context of damage throughput, it is important that DoTs > Direct Damage, because with a DoT, you spread your damage out over time, giving healers a better option to heal it, and gives certain classes/races an opportunity to remove that damage, before the DoT is done. Furthermore, DoTs give your opponent a longer range of time to react to you, which means with DoTs you have more time to take damage than with Direct Damage. My Survival Hunter regularly dish out 70k Mongoose Bites, that damage output is far more than what my Assassination Rogue can produce in a full DoT timer. Retribution Paladins regularly crit for 100k+, again with Direct Damage. When the Direct Damage has hit, you have lost that health and you can no longer interact with it, thus with Direct Damage, your window of opportunity is not there.

The problem with assassination rogues is now that our DoTs do less damage than what many other melee classes can produce in Direct Damage. THEREFORE DoTs of Rogues HAS to deal much more damage, otherwise, what is the point of doing 100k in DoTs over 18 seconds, if a class can contribute 1 million Direct Damage using globals in the same range of time? As an Assassination Rogue, I also cannot stack my damage, so I cannot get multiple Garrote tics, I have to wait for the Garrote to finish before I can apply a new one. In the same time, a Direct Damage Melee Classs is free to use the same damage abilities within the same time. As a Survival Hunter, I am not limited to using my Mongoose Bite every 18 seconds, instead I can dish out 70k crits multiple times within a short span of time. The same is true for Retribution Paladins and I can continue with many of the current PvP dominating melee classes.

In the context of survivability, when you deal DoT’s instead of Direct Damage, you also need to survive the full range of DoT timer, in order to win the fight. If you die before your DoTs have killed your opponent, then you lose. Therefore, for a DoT Class, it is important that you have the tools to survive. This is currently not the case for Assassination Rogue, as we are perhaps the squishiest class in all of PvP. This is known, to the point where everyone autotargets you in Arena Shuffle, because Arena Shuffle is all about getting a quick kill, and Assassination Rogues cannot survive direct focus currently. We do not have the survival tools of many other classes. (See this video if you do not believe me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HCZcCqnNNk&t=743s&ab_channel=SkillCappedWoWGuides)

The solution
To fix Assassination Rogues, we need either a huge damage increase, to match our lacking survivability, or you need to give us the tools to survive.

In my opinion, you must make sure abilities such as Garrote and Rupture can out damage Direct Damage of other melee classes, given they get the full 18s tic time, otherwise, what is the point of bringing a DoT class over a Direct Damage dealer, because as mentioned above, once a class such as Retribution Paladin has landed his 100k crit, that health is lost and no longer something the opponent can react to, therefore DoTs such as Garrote and Rupture needs to be able to produce the same numbers, or we will end up a lesser choice compared to alternative melee classes, which is what is currently happening in 2v2 and 3v3 teams.

If you do not want to buff the damage of Assassination Rogue, with the comment that Assassination Rogue is not a damage dealer, but a control character, then I demand that Feral Druid Damage is nerfed too, because how is it fair that a Hybrid Class gets to dish out more damage than a Pure Damage Dealer class, with the argument is that all classes should be able to fill a high damage roll, if Assassination Rogues do not get the same treatment?

TL;DR
Assassination Rogue is a DoT Class, not a Direct Damage class, and it is a problem that we are the squishiest dps class in PvP while also having less DoT Damage Throughput than many other classes is currently able to dish out as Direct Damage.

1 Like

Nvm, I was thinking off the wrong spec.

Hi Leviosaah. I supplied I detailed explanation as to what the problem is. I have the luxury if having 2 melee dps classes both with ilvl 420 pvp gear, so my friend and I can feel the difference in 2v2s, BGs etc when we are playing. We have also measured the DPS throughput. If you think the damage output is there for Assassination Rogue compared to other PvP melee classes, then please supply me the guide I need to use to achieve it.

You can also check the ladder on arenamaster dot io.
If you look at high ratings, +2400, you see that rogues currently run Outlaw and Sublety, NOT ASSASSINATION, Why? Because of the problems I listed above. Sublety increases survivability, and focuses on Direct Damage, Outlaw changes from DoT to Direct Damage, with about the same survivability as Assassination. In both cases, they solve the problem of low survivability matched with DoT Damage by either increasing the survivability or changing to Direct Damage.

1 Like

Mate, you pulling numbers out of your bum right now. Sub representation on ladder is non-existant and ASSA is by FAR the most represented rogue spec at all ratings. It’s not great, the set bonus is very good though and with the set bonus it’s probably a high B tier low A tier spec. Sub and Outlaw are both in a much worse spot, the numbers are very clear go look at them.

1 Like

Although I agree with you in regards to the state of assa being very squishy ( I made my own posts about this) , I must say you are very wrong in regards to sub and outlaw. They are inferior specs to assa, in general, hence you never see them. Only some “mains” use them.
Personally I have stopped playing assa 2 weeks ago and I am torturing myself to climb with sub in solo shuffle. It is hard, it sucks, but…i feel like a rogue and it’s so damn fun.
Assa is boring and annoying and dies to zug zugs.

1 Like

Same boat haha. I enjoy assass gameplay as a side activity when it’s performing just because winning feels good and it’s much easier to pull off since all u have to do is tunnel someone like a training dummy and blind sap healer. Sub is the only rouge spec that actually feels like a rogue and the cdr build is genuinely really fun gameplay but it’s lacking the power to make it feel competitive. I’ve made a comprehensive post about what I feel blizz should do to fix it and make it much less frustrating to play and play against (see fix sub in pvp thread). Basically get rid of secret tech, buff eviscerate, remove shadowy duel and make cold blood work with evis shadow damage and we will be a fun and viable spec IMO. Also generally just nerf the modifiers in pvp (rotten etc.) and buff shadowstrike and backstab base damage so burst hits same and outside of dance we actually do something

1 Like

all 3 specs needs buffs

You cannot compare raiding with pvp. A major factor of rogue dps in raiding is 100% uptime on Slice and Dice, something which you hardly have time, nor energy, to keep up in PvP, due to having to exhaust your resources on stuns and kicks. Rogue’s auto attacks have always been a major contributor to dps in PvE due to this.

According to the DPS output you listed, enhancement shamans should be killing it in PvP, but everyone agrees its probably the worst melee in PvP atm.

1 Like

peoples cryed about 380K secret tec cirts not mation the eng rocket googles got nerfed so they only do the 200K damage in pve not pvp :frowning:

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