Augmentation evoker is destroying M+ since its release

That’s not true. There’s several ways you can objectively check it:

  • Most important: overall Ebon Might uptime (details > buff uptime)
  • Overall Prescience uptime and Prescience targets (details > buff uptime)
  • Breath of Eons timing (that’s when the Aug flies over an enemy pack with their breath thing). Does it align with major DPS cooldowns? Although sometimes better to use it earlier.

Also check if Aug has Blistering Scales mostly on tank, Source of magic on healer, if Aug is using Oppressive Roar enough (often overlooked), if Aug is using both of their dispells.

Plenty of ways to check Aug performance.

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“Do you not have your own keys?!?!”

My god.

If only there was 1 quick metric one could look at that would give you a rough basic idea of performance… like the rest of us.

Instead, we have to look up a whole log to know…

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Don’t be so dramatic and if you evaluate other roles over 1 metric you’re already not doing it correctly, because they are other important metrics other than dps, hps etc. Like for example: interrupts, dispells, avoidable damage, CC.

And no you do not need logs to check, just Details is enough. Just like for the other roles but if you really can’t handle looking at more than 1 parameter, I’d suggest you look at the Ebon Might uptime.

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idea was good, but in reality the spec is toxic and bad for the game.

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I can handle looking at more than 1 parameter.

But here is the thing. Even in the impossibly absurd case where Aug has 100% uptime on Ebon Might, Prescience uptime, and perfect execution of Breath of Eons… and a mathematically perfect rotation execution… with 0 ping…

It would still be a bad performance in some cases. Because it depends as well on what the other 2 DDs are doing. And this is with out getting into what the tank and healer are doing.

So its not only the Aug metrics that matter, but the DD metrics too. Combine all of those factors, and its impossible to gauge Aug performance. Not in Details atleast. And definitely not in a quick manner.

The playerbase is declining?

The discussion revolves around 1: ways to evaluate Aug performance which you can do perfectly fine in a fairly easy and objective way. 2: your erroneous assumption that this is more difficult compared to the other roles. Both of these have been explained and debunked. Do with it what you want.

Fair enough.

I kind of see where the confusion is. There is individual performance one can evaluate and in that case you are 100% correct.

But Aug is special. Because its performance depends as well on the other 2 DD performance. So group performance and individual performance get mixed up.

Let me be constructive for once…

This is what I would like to see in Details :

I want to see how much individual DPS would the party have done with out an Aug. Dont know if it makes sense ?

I want to see the impact of all that uptime on the DDs (and healer/tank).

And if I am displeased with what I see, then I get into the details. How much uptime (was it bad Aug performance) or, bad CD usage from DDs (was it the DDs fault, even with high uptime)…

That is what I would like to see. If it makes sense.

True but that goes for other roles too. I only do M+ so that’s my point of reference but I’ve seen logs of skilled, well known healers that have green healing parses. Why? Because the group knows how to use defensives, interrupts and stops. Or tanks that have very little damage prevented or very little interrupts because the group was doing good. Or DPS that have low DPS because the group sucked and they’ve been wiping over and over.

Yes it makes sense and sure, if that’s someting you want to see, why not? But I’m not sure if that extra info is interesting for the overall player base as they are already able to evaluate each individual role and with an Aug you just know DPS will do more DPS and other roles also perform better. Just like having a BL or PI in your group has an effect on performance too. In the end it’s not even that relevant I think because Augs bring so much more than just a DPS/HPS increase. They are part of so many high key runs because of the extra utility and damage reduction they bring.

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I am mostly surprised that they didn’t take the whole support experiment to a clear direction.
Either remove the augmentation support as it’s the only one, or give more dps specs the option to play support.

The new exapnsion with hero talents and all, seemed the perfect time to pick one or the other.

I don’t like augmentation being the only support, it’s to unique of a role to give to one spec of one class of one race…

So do I. I was talking about M+ specifically all this time. Maybe I should have been clearer about it.

I get what you mean. True. But IMO what other party members do not as important for a “normal DD” than it is for Aug.

In other words, the “raw” DPS an Aug does is in line with tank/healer DPS. So all that “missing” DPS should be in the “extra” the other 2 are doing. How much exactly ?

And that is what I want to better asses.

And yeah… before you say it, I know perfectly well that DPS is not the most important metric (CCs, interrupts, mechanics, avoidable damage) are also very important parameters.

But a DDs job is to do all that while simultaneously executing a perfect rotation to maximize DPS and make sure mobs live as little as possible (which as a healer I will tell you its an overall benefit to have mobs live for less, and bosses to do less phases).

If you want to asses the same exact thing but with 3 DDs, you do the following : 2 DDs are doing 100k. One of them is doing 50k. You very easily can see that the “base” should be 100k, but one of them is doing half of it. Why? Did he die? Nobody interrupted? Rotation done wrong? Ect…

But you compare that 50k with a “base value”. If all 3 DDs do the same DPS then nobody even looks at details (assuming kicks and avoidable damage went well). And if 1 DPS does 20% more than the rest, and you have a priest you know its because its because of PI. You have a “base value” and 1 DD is over-performing.

BL affect all party equally. Its not the same. In fact, BL was such an important buff that blizz went really far to make sure its available to many classes. Such that the likelihood of a party not having BL is low.

PI is a problem because its given to 1 person only, and by 1 class only. And IMO should be turned into BL instead.

True. But as I said above, raw DPS is also an important metric.

And IMO your statement is why I believe Aug is a mistake. You cant provide all that party survivability and damage reduction AND at the same time provide the same equivalent DPS a normal DD would bring.

But how do we even begin to asses that if the only way to know the “raw numbers” would be to do 2 identical runs, one with Aug, one with out. Save us the work and just put that number on details.

Plus buffing the healer and the tank. Which is a totally different discussion. IMO they should literally remove that effect from M+ and have Aug buff only the DDs.

Augmentation needs to be deleted from the game and ill stand by that.

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Exactly ! well said augmentation has no place in this game

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I never placed aug as a priority in my pugs , because i’m not in the 0.1% for pushing m+
All who prioritise aug and are beneath that threshold are clearly infatuated children .
And that’s one easy way to spot meta mentality and other garbage that comes from players with 1 neuron .

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They should do something similar with another class in the future. It is great for the RPG aspect.

Feels good not to bother with M+ I guess :smiley:

Support classes were/are already in the game. They just suck at class design.

True, i totally agree on this. And i also think a very valid point and problem of aug is the survivability & healing increase it brings towards the tank & healer. I feel making the survivability of the dps better is alright, but aug buffing the survivability & healing output of the tank/healer is the main issue here.

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Aug should have been the mail wearing tank spec that people asked for and expected.

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This sums up why I’m not a fan. I just try to look at ebon might uptime but even then I don’t know what’s a good percentage :joy: