Adding this to the top because people cannot skim to the bottom to read it. Edit edit- To make my annoyance more clear, this is not a middle finger to alt GEARING but alt LEVELING, why make us level at 1x speed if end game gear can be gotten at a boosted rate.
So we got to level our alts at 1x exp speed to only play for like a few hours doing baby mode HC+ with hand holding buffs to get basically Valor ilvl gear, which you don’t need any reputation to buy ??
Like who thought it was a good idea for the first wave of HC+ content to have the hand hold buffs? First wave of HC+, if I remember correctly, always was just base player power level in harder dungeons, not steam roll content for near enough the best gear you can get this early.
Edit- To make my annoyance more clear, this is not a middle finger to alt GEARING but alt LEVELING, why make us level at 1x speed if end game gear can be gotten at a boosted rate.
Because they do not think about it or care, they just make decisions and move on without looking back… Like the Celestial vendor gear locked behind specs only, like bonus rolls shields with spirit drops to priest and spirit cloth to mages, like epic BoE from random dungeons, if a caster BoE epic drops, and all roll need, only the caster who can use it will get it, plate/mail/leather or healers need rolls won’t even count, and many more
I might be wrong but even LFR took longer than a few hours to get the full set of gear from it?
Again you are someone being too literal about the Ilvl. Is it higher than Justice Point gear? Yeah by I believe 18 Ilvls. So it is “basically” Valor Point gear Ilvl.
Don’t dismiss the issue of this post though, it is about the fact that HC+ phase 1 was not usually a brain dead catch-up mechanic, rather it actually required some skill because the expansion was not old enough to justify super easy catch-up mechanics.
Why level a character for literal days to only be geared in a few hours, both should be trivialised or neither should.
If your alt is band new lvl 90 with 349 ailvl green geared from Dread wastes questing, celestials aren’t that easy you know. We run thorough them with out mains because we only needed like 4-5 slots at max with the rest being auqired for VP, world bosses and N/H raids.
Around mid of September celestials would be 80% from fresh characters only.
While I find most mechanics in celestials dungeons easy and more of annoying than deadly, they still serve their purpose of teaching new players what to expect of Hearth of fear bosses, something LFR never did, cutting half of the mechanics off.
I don’t see how a fresh 90 entering Celestial with bad gear is even a thing since you are locked out anyway if you can’t even do HC right? And if that’s the case then yeah Celestials are better since you actually get buffs that trivialize it more than HC.
So if your DPS/Tanking/Healing is boosted from buffs and the extra mechanics are pretty much just an annoyance that can be mitigated by either looking at the screen or using a defensive CD or 2, then they are just a baby mode “catch-up” for an expansion that is just about 1 month old. True?
Listen, I am slightly annoyed by the fact that the first wave of Celestial Dungeons have the handhold buffs, but again, my issue is spending days of leveling a singular character to just spend a few hours being hand-held into pretty up max gear for the current patch.
It is a massive slap in the face to my time commitment if I ever want to play alt’s.
You know, most people would think it is a GOOD thing that you can get your alts geared up fast, as if it would take ages most people wouldn’t even bother leveling up alts.
Given that logic then there would be no reason to play alt’s unless you had the maximum gear you could get, if you’re only concern was how strong they are.
Just buying gear from the AH house is strong enough to do most task with alts such as gold farming, skilling, T-Mog runs or Mount runs.
There is no way being able to get 476 gear basically given to you outweighs the time you put into actually leveling the character.
A part of me wishes I didn’t rushed as well, but mains got 2 weeks aheard start to finish PvE race. I still can’t see myself doing all those dailes again on all alts for the same amount of time I put into farming rep for my main.
Celestials are still way better than running heroics for 12 hours and not getting a single dagger which happened to my main so I had to get 2 crafted daggers. THAT was bs.
“Valor Gear” in this patch may as well just be called Reputation Gear, and I agree it is better than LFR gear, but what I mean it is “basically Valor gear” as in it is higher than HC by 13 levels and would sit around the usual Ilvl of what Valor points would be. The reputation gear is 489 because realistically Reputation is what it focuses around rather than Valor Points. I agree also that it sucks it is locked behind a rep wall, but if it wasn’t it would probably be around 476 Ilvl gear.
Also I think you are mistaken a little, yes Celestials are “significantly harder” than HC because HC is a joke that is not hard at all. The point proving this is its quite low Ilvl requirement. You can buy 450 gear from AH and just jump straight into HC dungeons, and not have any trouble at all.
You missed my text in the original post “First wave of HC+, if I remember correctly, always was just base player power level in harder dungeons, not steam roll content for near enough the best gear you can get this early.”
Am I wrong in the fact that Phase 1 HC+ had only player power to go off, with no extra buffs?
Yeah compared to Reputation Gear aka Valor, but who has time to rep farm on every character for a full set of that.
Also compared to normal and HC raid gear. I just farmed up my alt with celestials and a DMF trinket went straight into 5/6 hc and got bracers, dagger and a ring 502.
You dont even need rep gear, just do raids, the celestial gear makes it insanely easy.
Honestly I want either alt’s get boosted EXP and faster end game gear, or they get neither.
I don’t think it sounds so bad to say that having a both or neither mentality is that bad, since in future it stops other stupid decisions that boost one aspect of the game but completely ignores another part that is tied to it.
If you want the best gear on one character, that’s what mains are for, but what is the point of a “Catch-up” mechanic when it takes like 20x the time to reach it than to use it.
(Going off if you leveled from scratch)
I mean I don’t want 10x leveling speeds, lets be clear, but if they permanently added Joyous Journeys at least that would be better than nothing.
So as you can see MOP has a much wider and larger spread of ilvl, but the Celestial (aka LFR) gear sits closer to the entry point with the best items being 26 ilvl above, which is absolutely massive, the 476 items are effectively worthless by comparison.
So them sitting at 13 Ilvls above HC gear makes them essentially Valor Point gear, and the 489 Gear, the Reputation stuff, is essentially “Reputation Gear” not “Valor Gear” since the main way to get them is not VP but Reputation.
Of course Celestial Gear is near the lower end. If they made it 489, the Rep rewards and MSV would be basically redundant. That would not be a catch-up mechanic at that point. There still needs to be gear that’s higher to give people something to do other than reputation farm.
I WIll put this in bold because you care more about the Ilvl of Celestial gear than the point of the post, my issue is not so much that Celestial has been added, rather it already has the hand-hold mechanic that kept for later Phases, and leveling Alts is extremely more time consuming than getting raid ready gear. Why add catch-up mechanics already to end game, if leveling takes so damn long
Edit- Unless you say something about the original meaning of the post I will ignore your future posts, because this thread has already been bogged down answering people about what I meant by "Basically Ilvl Gear. No hate, just repeating myself at this point.