Baine is the biggest alliance push over the game has. He sold the Horde interests out to the Alliance multiple times. He has Horde blood on his hands. Hence for these crimes against the Horde and being a multiple traitor he deserves to be executed like the useless Cow he really is. Let’s get rid of Baine and then put some competent Tauren into leadership for their race.
Now thats funny coming from a blood elf that have a lunatic like Lor’themar for a leader that have no loyalty whatsoever to the hordes cause while tauren have always been loyal to the horde. Silvermon and its residents should have been burned to the ground along time ago as they have no place in the horde
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Not you again. Feel yourself flagged.
Every member of the Horde is a traitor to some Horde. With the possible exception of the Vulpera. There are a lot of rebrands of the Horde, but really all of them backstabbed each other in some way. So yeah, Baine is a traitor, Thrall is a traitor, Sylvanas is a traitor, Erevien is a traitor, all of Rexxar’s pets are total traitors…
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the Horde don’t kill their own even when they commit “betrayal” (the supporters of Sylvanas and the Void Elves who were only exiled as punishment are proof enough for this) because we actually are all betrayers at least once (with Garrosh), so apparently that’s not a big deal…
…although it was very weird for Baine not to react like that even just for the burning of Teldrassil, but only when Derek Proudmoore was going to be used by Sylvanas…if he only had Alliance interests in mine he would have left at the start of BfA already after all…
Well in that case he could just leave the Horde right now…it would be perfect for the Blood Elves because the Horde would lose any major capital and zone in the Eastern Kingdoms so they wouldn’t be a threat while the Alliance wouldn’t bother the Blood Elves anymore if they were neutral. But he’s staying … 
Well for starters Silvermoon is not flammable like proven in the Second War with the dragons and even if you destroy it like the Scourge did , Blood Elves deal with magic that is powerful to rebuild half of it in a single night (the Sunwell, or even without the Sunwell, simply fel magic and demonic crystals will do the trick). So destroying Silvermoon seems quite pointless
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Flagged for what? telling the truth? feel free yourself to get flagged for insulting the horde
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No we are not dont throw the other horde races in with you traitourus blood elves.
Sound perfect if he leaves cause the horde dont want Lor’themar or any other blood elves for that matter so to be fair giving up silvermoon would be a small prize if it kicked out blood elves 
ok you got me tehre i forgot silvermoon is not flammable 
…quess we have to improvise and just defeat the blood elves with brute force then shouldn be to hard considering how scrawny the blood elves are as a race 
Baine isn’t the only problem. There’s fencesitter Lor’Themar aswell.
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but all the Horde races betrayed Warchief Garrosh…or Sylvanas…
Well maybe in Warcraft 4 or WoW 2…I hope before that it can’t happen
maybe not even brute force works considering the Blood Elves could still have the invincible magical barrier lol
Hmm how he is the fencesitter one…maybe in the past but not now, because Blood Elves can never rejoin Alliance until Void Elves (who can corrupt the Sunwell) are there…
and remember in the Horde cinematic, Lor’themar was actually the one who wanted Thrall to become the Warchief again like he should have…but no, Thrall and Baine just did not want the responsibility anymore and so they both came up with this weird council theory…so Lor’themar actually wanted to preserve a Horde tradition (with a good Warchief like Thrall), but Thrall and Baine literally removed the Warchief forever, basically negating the past of the Horde and dispersing the blame for the burn of Teldrassil (like Tyrande said). So in this occasion Lor’themar was actually more for the Horde than them both because he wanted a true Warchief, not this Council of leaders who will probably soon fail anyway, because if the faction war ever returns, a Horde Council is not very effective for fighting unlike a single and good leader who cares for their people.
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Hey come on guys the horde has always been a collection of races that have banded together despite our differences for mutual survival.
When the Tauren joined thrall’s horde it was out of a need to survive the attacks from the centaur. When the forsaken joined it was out of a desperate need for allies when the alliance had shunned them.
We need each other. The alliance has always (until recently at least) stood as a unified block with a unified purpose. The horde races might have differing views or goals but if we are not united then we are inferior to the might of the alliance
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Not really because it was more like Garrosh and sylvanas betraying the horde. Garrosh wanted Orcs to the supreme and didnt really care about the other races and sylvannas have always seemed like she should be in the nut house but she really went to far when pouring down poison from the Wall on her own allies so they turned into new undeads
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Well said i couldnt agree with you more. That part of the lore is what i love in how you found out about the back story of how the horde become allies with eachother and how the blood elves really dont fit in with the rest of us . Lets stand United against the alliance and the back stabbing Blood elves. For the horde
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The whole premisse of “we are all betrayers” is folly.
Every institution suffers it’s own revolutions within, it reforms, it adapts in accordance with whom is seated in the throne of power for that institution.
In the case of the Horde, we can witness various reforms over the years since the first war, and altought Thrall’s Horde has different core values than the first Horde or the Old Horde, whatever you prefer to call it, it does take some elements of it’s nature.
The hierarchy of leadership, title of warchief, shamanistic roots, the very own name of it, and so on are just some of the simillar elements.
In WoW, we see the leadership change in various directions because of the nature of it’s leaders, or in this case, the warchiefs.
Even in the Old Horde there’s a major difference between the ideology of Blackhand and Orgrim Doomhammer, yet they both were part of the Old Horde.
When talking about the New Horde though, Thrall’s and Vol’jin’s leadership was pretty much the same path (they killed ma boy Vol’jin too soon, he deserved better), but when comparing Garrosh with Sylvanas, there are major key differences, th emost obvious being that for all the evil that Garrosh did to the world, at least he (in his mind) was doing it for the sake of HIS Horde and what the idea of the ideal Horde should be since he was leading it. If HIS Horde was the same or aligned with the values of Thrall’s Horde however, it was not.
Sylvanas had a different agenda, not the common good for the Horde, but the empowerment of … well her powers I guess and the breaking of the Jailer’s prison? We are yet to find out the details, but we do know that she didn’t really care for the Horde, it was just a useful tool for survival in the meantime and an instrument of war in recent events.
With that being said, neither Baine or Lor’themar can ever be considered traitors.
We cannot judge one person based on the actions of their race’s history or isolated acts. Specially the Orcs and the Blood Elves. The Orcs because, well you all know and the Blood Elves because give them a break, look what they’ve went through. But this can be applied to every race in the Horde at least, they went through hell (in the Alliance side of things, not so much, except maybe the Draenei, Worgen and recently the Night Elves I guess).
Point being, every race has it’s ups and downs.
Baine was always loyal to the values of Thrall’s Horde, just like his father and Lor’themar has a different view of things but is nothing but loyal to the Horde that took his race in when their prince kinda went crazy and at least has his people’s interest and well-being in mind.
Never in-game or in lore you saw either Baine or Lor’themar scheming against the original values of the Horde (TH).
If anything, the betrayer is Sylvanas, because being Warchief isn’t being the Horde, but is being the representative of the people of the Horde and she didn’t represent anything but herself and her selfish goals.
Wheter you prefer the leadership of Thrall, Garrosh, Sylvanas, Vol’jin, or even Orgrim or Blackhand (coughGul’dancough), the facts still stand, being Warchief doesn’t make that person the personification of the Horde or the bastion of values for the Horde, it does however, make you a person with power to use the Horde as god-damn killing machine if your view of the Horde is that is just a bunch of brutes with imense murder potential and nothing more.
In that sense, the Alliance has a more consistent leadership, but less interesting stories to be told I guess. But that’s a topic for another time.
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I think you misunderstood my point friend. I am calling for unity with all of the horde races including the blood elves. We all need to band together for mutual benefit.
No offense but with all the shady things Lor’themar he could definitely be seen as a traitor and that i base on him as a person not on his race.
The orcs i totally agree with you on but the blood elves i definitely dont agree on because theyre only in this situation that they put themself in with the action they made in the past so they really have not earned a break.
Oh sorry my bad for misundertanding you. Quess we just have to agree to disagree on banding togeather with blood elves cause they are the one race withing the horde i can never resspect
But you are judging all Blood Elves based on HIS behaviour. He can be shady, but by that standard, the Orcs take the prize (and I’m an Orc fan).
Take Thrall vs Gul’dan, both Orcs, both incredibly different, but Lor’themar has it’s interests of his people in mind at least.
Is he a super loyalist of Thrall’s Horde like Cairne, Vol’jin or Baine are? No, but neither was he a fan of Garrosh’s Horde or Sylvana’s Horde, but he knows the Horde is a valuable ally and asset so he guarantee the survival of his people.
Plus, Belfs can be loyal, we can see this thru the acts of various Belfs in the lore,but they went thru hell, it’s only natural they seek allies to help them survive this world.
Also, the Alliance didn’t really care for them at the time.
"The Belfs didn’t leave the Horde after the Sunwell was restored. Or after they finally had vengeance against the Lich King. Or when Garrosh drove them into a bloody war.
Lor’themar didn’t invite the Nightborne to join his power bloc, he invited them to join the Horde." - Biggrouse over on Reddit
The Orcs were deceived yes, but even they knew what they were doing, or at least some of them, the Frostwolves are living proof of that.
Point being, if we run around pointing fingers for questionable things the races have done, there would be no factions.
I do however relate to you in a way
The Belfs did have a bad time with the whole magic thirst thing that they in some ways put themselves in and I’m not a fan of the Amani massacre, BUT, in more than one occasion, the Night Elves shunned them aside because they believed they alone are the superior and more pure or enlightened race of Elves (and of all the races).
This is why they rejected the Nightborne, whilst the Blood Elves recruited them to the Horde, the same Horde that took them in. So they do have some loyalty to the Horde, otherwise they would’ve left some time ago.
Maybe if Nelfs weren’t such of bunch of entitled brats, Belfs would’ve joined the Alliance 
(hope no Night Elf takes this seriously, otherwise I’ll be in a world of pain in this thread I guess).
AND ALSO
Since you are such a Horde fan, you are bound (or should be) by the values on which it was founded - mainly the one that the Horde is a place for uniting persecuted people and giving them a home and a place to thrive in without unecessary bloodshed, being that Tauren of Blood Elves, of which I recall correctly, both were heavily persecuted.
Noone is asking you to like the Blood Elves (I don’t like the Night Elves and I have a Dwarf in the Alliance side, I just pretend I’m Gimli and hate the Elves LOTR style), but I don’t think Belfs they are traitors or aren’t loyal to the Horde at all.
Also I apologize if I sounded too harsh, I’m not being aggresive in any way, I just read this after posting and sounded like I was 
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Why would you want to kill off even more lore characters instead of asking for more, so the old ones can evolve alongside them? Unless they seek to remake the old ones by revealing things that would ruin their arc. New characters should be the most important thing from each expansion.
Even something as ridiculous as Sylv Windrunner has became in my eyes I wouldn’t ask for her death. It’s like a tran wreck, gawking at the sheer destruction and hubris is much more entertaining that ending it for good.
Baine is an alliance scyophant. We don’t need such pansies on our team. Kill him and replace him with someone who is much more willing to kick the Alliance where it hurts.
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True there maybe a handfull of Blood elves that are not rotten to the core but in the bigger part of them u would still say that its accurate that they are shady so i stic to what i say about them.
sure they “can be loyal” when it suits them but you can also see plenty of lore when they stab theyre former allies in the back to get into a better situation so it would suprise me if the stab the horde in the back in the future aswell.
True they did play a big role in bringing over the Nighborne to the horde so as mutch as it pains me i have to admit they did good on that one. As ironic as it may sound given how mutch i dislike Blood elves but when it comes to the Nighborne i really like them as an allie to the horde but i think thats mostly because its easier to relate to the hardships the nighborne went through simillar to other horde races so i can assure you i have nothing against elves as a wholesome if i accidently gave that impression
I can see the logic in that At the moment i cant acknowledge The blood elves they just seem wrong with the horde but who know given time perhaps my mind about them will change but i doubt it 
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No need to aplogize i dont think your post sounded aggresive to tell the truth i like people like you that get to the point and write what you think in an honest way .I also apologise if my respond came of sounding agressive i sometime make it look wrong when i express my opinion but i assure you i did not intend to make it look like i was agressive towards you