BDG, Mythic raiding and race to world first

Just a thought on how to make mythic raiding accessible to the player base. Cause it’s kinda on the ropes. Based on the post by BDG. I kinda wonder if it’s a dumb idea. Cause I only had a very short stint in mythic raiding. Then got fed up but would be interested in what people think.

Move raid utility to an external spec. Call it path of the titans. All melee have access to one path, all ranged have access to another path, all tanks have access to another path and healers and so on. Each type has 10 nodes, and you get 5 points. So that 2 of each type can effectively bring all the buffs. That way you balance the game around 8 man or whatever. You change the way buffs function lore wise. So if a priest is bringing mark of the wild, it changes to blessing of the wild. Because you entreat the titan of life to bless your party with its blessing. If druid a druid is casting said buff, it still says mark of the wild. Trick is you don’t scale bosses based on players at any level. You can zerg at any level/mythic boss with 15 players, but you won’t get the achievements or mounts. You do it to farm items and experience. This has the added bonus of making blessings stack. Making mythic content easier. Groups got low dps. Have two blood lusts and so on. Buffs don’t stack in M+. You have a tournament mode without having to make a tournament realm essentially. Do it across the board. Normal heroic as well. One thing I would do, is make it so that race to world first opens up the zerg mode for everyone. Once they clear the last boss on mythic, heroic and normal. Race to world first becomes a community event. Just because I would like that last boss kill in mythic to still have meaning to the community. Kind of like Ahn’Qiraj, where the people who rang the bell got a specific title and mount after it opened. Where the first 30 guilds to clear that mythic boss within a week of it being downed first time. Get that specific title and mount in the hard mode. Making it incredibly difficult to sell that title and mount as well. Modes still offer a mount but only 30 guilds max per region will have that title and mount. It can be a very subtle difference in the mount. Feathers around the neck are a deepish purple rather than a black. It just means when u see that version of the mythic mount or title in game. It’s like wow, that player is the mad top 1% of players and he is chilling in my M+ group. Like bumping into a Hollywood star moment but with wow. Whereas now you see a player with a mythic mount/title and think. How much gold did that cost. It just means that there are titles and mounts in the game. Where you have to be good at the game in order to get.

If E-Peen is the main motivation for anyone, then its a toxic motivation.

Raid because you enjoy raiding. PvP because you enjoy it. M+ because you like it.

Tittles mean nothing. And rewards will show up on their own.

And what other people do, is not my concern IMO.

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I can see what you are saying but I remember seeing people with the mount from Ahn’Qiraj and thinking. Thats kinda cool back in the day. I don’t think it has to be toxic.

Yeah, I remember that too.

And then I grew up and stopped caring what others do. :slight_smile: I then began caring what I do.

Sounds like rearranging deckchairs on the titanic.

Some awfully convoluted system that actually addresses nothing.

What are you actually solving with this?

What in this makes people think ‘wow yea, that totally makes mythic raiding atteactive now!’?

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You mean like guilds sold Scarab Lord on classic when it came back? Yeah takes some real skill…

Weekend’s biggest wall of text.

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Effectively I am reducing the number of mandatory spots in a raid. Also reducing raid size means that far more guilds would take part in raiding. I honestly think the community is getting smaller and raiding needs to change. 8 or 10 man raiding I personally think is the way forward. Though I also wanted to preserve what makes mythic raiding special.

This was another time long long time ago. Back then we did not have the internet access we have today and the information. Now if we see something cool, we google it to see what we need to do to get it and weight the “price” vs the reward (price meaning gold/time/effort).

You get the exact result by removing raid buffs, or just giving each each buff to 2-3 classes (just like it was in wrath), repeat for utility (like they did with bl/cr). The result is the same with your system.

Also there is alot of issues with mythic raiding apart from the number of required participants. Making mythic raiding 10 man, will increase the participation for abit, until those people see what mythic raiding is really about.

not always treu some do it not for thet for fame glory it job raid high lvl

It’s been tried with 10 man raiding… And it just comes with so many problems, that blizzard has never been able to solve…

There’s to many specs, and to much spec diversity for this to be a success.
All fights must be utterly generic as you can’t be sure to have X class for Y mechanic.

Or they don’t make the fights generic, and certain classes will be utterly excluded. Either way it’s loose loose.

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Correct. Not only that, its worse than it used to be in WotlK when they tried 10 man raids.

If the problem is mandatory spots in the raid, then reducing the amount of spots is certainly adding to the problem and making it worse.

The thing is: I have the impression that when it comes to class tuning and design, blizzard works in separate independent teams. There is no “overarching vision” of how groups of specs interact with each other.

For example Palas and Priests. Its nice to give utility to them. Its “cool”… but there is no vision. There are things that have to be common and homogenized. Raid buffs are one of those.

Either we ALL have them. Or NONE have them.

So IMO what blizz should do is decide on 4 or 5 buffs that they consider OK (4% vers, 10% stamina, the 5% extra damage on boss…) and spread them out to classes.

So for example: Warrior shout should give 5% extra damage. And hunters/shamans should get the same. In their own way. Shamans via a totem. Warriors via a buff to party. Hunters, dunno. An Aura. But everyone gets a 5%.

Fortitude you give it to mages and priests… things like that… each their own way.

And by the way, they already do this with certain mechanics. BL and CR are the 2 famous ones. But there are also more subtle ones.

As a healer, I always mention combat mana regen. ALL healers have it. Its too OP to NOT have it. But each spec has its own way of executing it (Resurgence, mana tea, cat weaving… ect…). And this is the direction raid buffs should go.

But they don’t. And that is what I see. No vision.

And by the way: Same thing applies to defensive CDs, Externals, and in the case of healers: DPS while (important WHILE) healing, and absorb shields. None of that is something I see happening.

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Exactly… If it’s because people want something between HC and Mythic, then the answer would maybe be some hard mode on some bosses in HC? I honestly don’t know.

Either way, 10man mythic would be doomed to fail from the get go.

And yes, I agree that class balance in terms of what they bring to a raid team is :poop: And something that should be looked at. Either remove them entirely, or let us have old scrolls back that provided it at a decent level.

I had some intense dicussions with Tysera about this.

IMO (Tysera will disagree) remove the 20 person limitation of Mythic and make it flex (like 18 to 22 players).

OR, the idea I like best:

Add a new mode between Heroic and Mythic. I would call it “heroic +”. But its simply bosses in the raid with levels. Level 1 to dunno… 10. Each level is a flat % HP and damage.

Then each person finds its difficulty range with which they are comfortable.

You could make it infinitely scalable.

Basically: The problems of Mythic where they tune the raid to RTWF but then they have to nerf it somehow for the rest of us (via direct nerfs, or the old gearing process)… And the limitations of forming a 20-man roster (and the balancing issues that entails)…

Well… now it would be: Heroic+ flex for the rest of us. And Mythic for those who are really into the E-Sport aspect of Raiding. They tune it for RTWF guys. And leave it as is. No nerfs. And the “hall of fame” would simply be the whole season.

And of course, the Mythic raiders would get the best gear, the CE achievement, and all that. And the rest of us, well we might get the gear if the “level of the boss” is close to Mythic. And our own achievement (the heroic one). DONE.

I partly disagree with this.

Take the current raid for example, it seems very good and balanced, until Tindral and Fyrrak, you get a massive difficulty spike there. That’s not to say that the other bosses aren’t hard, but mythic first boss starts easier than Fyrrak HC, and then ramps up at a decent pace.

I saw a rather interesting take from Max on this issue. Why not just have the last 2 bosses (that are tuned for RTWF and then nerfed afterwards) be cosmetic only?

Is it a big deal that we’d have 2 bosses the majority can’t do? I personally don’t think so. For the RTWF, the first many bosses are more loot pinata than anything else.

I personally don’t raid Mythic for personal reasons. I will let the Mythic raiders comment on this. But I have been hearing from posters and streamers this balancing issue with RTWF. What you say from the first bosses of the raid is that they were “undertuned” for the RTWF. And could not buff them in time because by then they already killed them.

If anything, RTWF raid should have the first bosses much harder than what they are now. With Fyrak and Tindral the way they are.

Other comments I heard were the “individual mistakes that cause raid wipes” sentiment among mythic raiders. Apparently Ian said no more of that after the Sepulcher fiasco in SL.

But maybe Tyssera wants to drop by and give his input on this.

I only do Heroic. And its too easy IMO and the raiding season ends 1 month into the patch for me. But I also admit that “easy” for me, does not necessarily mean “easy” for others. Including for people in my own guild. Hence the variable levels.

I wouldn’t say the first bosses were undertuned, it just seems it’s where blizzard wants them to be… If you are someone with AotC you should be able to get a few mythic kills before it scales beyound HC. Something I agree with tbh. And this has been true for quite a few expansions.

But on the other hand, not really raided mythic this expansion so not sure what weight my opinion should have :stuck_out_tongue:

This is technically possible. Gnarlroot Mythic is much easier than Fyrakk HC. And Blizzard intended some degree of overlap in difficulty between heroic and Myhic. To give a more “seamless” progression.

And I agree.

But blizzard forgot that to step foot in the Mythic raid you need a 20 man roster. EXACT.

And most heroic guilds raid heroic specifically to avoid all that roster work. So in the end, nobody does. :slight_smile:

And pugging mythic… common… its a mess in HC to pug the raid. I dont want to even try to pug Mythic. Why go through the trouble?

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