Being penalised for being kicked from a dungeon group by a toxic group leader doesnt seem fair

Community General Discussion
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trying to farm time warped badges, and got held up by aggroed trash mobs by a group leader who decided they where going to force the whole group to run after them, and was toxic as hell.

they kicked me, for asking them to not speedrun the dungeon, or at least wait for me, and now I’m being penalised on the group finder, because of a toxic group leader that kept hurling abuse at everyone for being left behind. that genuienly seems more like I’m being punished for trying to do a timewalking dungeon through the group finder because some idiot decided to charge off ahead and leave us fighting through tons of trash mobs they’d aggroed

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seen similar posts multiple times. think they will remove the debuff soon as the game gets more and more casual friendly.

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as i told you there already

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I don’t think they will as they made it stricter in some recent times. Barring anything to replace it really.

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That will make the game more and more toxic as it normalizes that behavior since there are no repercussion for being a douche.

I normally love timewalking and BfA especially but thsi week i only did the 5 runs for the loot on main and alt. Not touched it since.

Every single run was pretty much like OP said. It was horrible. As healer i stayed with the dps that needed it and let tank who could handle the mobs on his own. When we caught up it was rinse and repeat.

I get its semi-afk-been-done-before-content and it is lower level. But there are people who have never done this stuff or lowbies.

There are changes coming i read. Timewalking will not be the walk in the park that it is now. Boss mechanics will have to be respected. In way that is almost the case now.

You can die in timewalking if you mess up and dont have the healer who can stop your death.

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Never happened to me personally, but I hope they fix your issue, because a good casual gameplay experience is very important

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I get it, it´s annoying, esp when i happens multiple times (though I admittedly can´t say I´ve ever expereinced it, I think I´ve been kicked from a random dungoen maybe twice in the 16 years since lf(x) was introduced…)

But, with all due respect, you expecting them to take time and wait for you is just as egotistical as them eypecting everyone to be cool with speedrunning. You want them to play a certain way, and they want you to play a certain way, and the 2 may not be compatible. That´s just the way the cookie crumbles, unfortunately.

BUt, just as a tip, As a general rule in any pug content, if the tank is moving, you should be too, damaging mobs along the way is what causes aggro loss and failpulls… If you don´t hit the mobs, they generally won´t care about you. Just keep running until the tank stops, and only then start doing damage, unless you have aggro redirection skills such as Misdirect or Tricks of the Trade.

But, just to clarify, it was not the group leader that kicked you, but a group vote that passed with at leaset 3/4 of the other players voting to remove you. So at least 3/4 of the other players were not cool with going slower. It is what it is. :wink:

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Its sad to read what happened to you. I don’t think its gonna get better, its gonna get worse. I have no good outlook to offer …

This is what blizzard wants. The leaver buster system has made it very clear that what they want is simple numbers. Less abandoned dungeons on paper, no matter the consequences, no matter the context.

" Why It’s Rude to Suck at Warcraft" is 2 years old now and it seems the devs haven’t learned a thing.

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There isn’t a right or wrong here. Yet blizzard is creating a system that enables players to make a judgement. The system then punishes other players according to that.

The punishment, only the punishment, is the problem here. If there was no penalty it would be water under the bridge.

Now people will feel forced to stay in a run that they don’t enjoy. Facilitating conflict that would not have happened if the system didn’t exist.
Its making the game worse, not better.

No amount of “you could have done this differently” is gonna change that.

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Well, the devs aren´t the ones kicking players for any multitude of (sometimes frivolous) reasons. And even on these very forums it´s quite clear that the playerbase as a whole has only become more toxic towards new players, or for that matter any player that isn´t “you”.

The only real solution with any merit, and its questionable whether it would actually work out as planned, would be for truly fresh accounts to not ever be Auto-grouped with experienced plaers until they have reached levelcap so they can learn together in an environment where you don´t have a wannabe god dictating how to play and rushing them thourgh the dungeon faster than their PC can render the mobs…

Unfortunately, while that would help truly new players, it would do nothing to curb the idiocy that pugging in WoW has devolved to once they reach max level and /or start another toon… :confused:

And if the penalty weren´t there, you get 1:1 OG cataclysm, “I dont like this dungeon, kick me so I can requeue” … which then griefs the group by forcing them to wait another 15 minutes for a new tank, who then pulls the same schtick, andrinse and repet, and before you know it you´ve been sitting in the dungeon for >2 hrs and haven´t killed a single mob.

The punishments are there, and were added one after the other, because people just can´t act like well adjusted adults but incessantly have to look for the next free ride or way to exploit ever system they can.

The only way to really be “fair” about it would be a convoluted dynamic punishment system that punishes you 1:1 with the amount of other player´s time you wasted… YOu leave? Fine… if the remaining 4 have to waitr 15 minutes to refill the grp, you get a 1 hr debuff. If it´s only 2-3 minutes such asw is the case with most frivolous DD kicks, then you get 8-12 minutes debuff.

The system can not work properly without punishment because people as a whole are self-centered bonobos, that´s why the punishments had to be added… originally there was none, then it was 30 mins for leaving before the first boss, then in cata that was extended to kicks because tanks and healers saw a loophole and hated Greim Batol, and it worked for well over a decade, until even more self centered arsehats decided in TWW S! preseason that it would be cool to ruin countless dungeon runs by loeaving after the first boss and requeuing.

Maybe the problem is simply, as much as I dislike quoting Slipknot, that People = :poop:? :wink:

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You want a solution? Stop trying to engineer player behavior and let them decide for themselves.
Disable the random groupfinder. Groups who form through the manual groupfinder can communicate in advance how they want the run to play out.

People can be as toxic as they want, as long as they don’t have power over me. I’ve had toxic runs and its rather simple. I tell them to stop insulting me or I will leave. If they don’t stop I bubble hearth. It doesn’t really matter what people dissagree on. If I don’t want to play with people then I will leave. And thats best for everyone.

Its sad that blizzard wants to disrupt that natural human way to resolve conflicts.

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There is still dueling infront stormwind and orgrimmar, I sometimes kill time with them aswell so can confirm :thinking:

https://tenor.com/view/challenge-duel-glove-gif-15778825

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And the ca 80% of the community that only ever started running dungeons specifically because they didn´t have to go through the process of forming their own group for trivial content anymore can just go pound sand from now on, just like tehy did from classic → Wrath?

I don´t think you´re going to get very far with that idea for exactly that reason… people can and do still group up manually, but tfor the majority of players convenience > social skills.

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I think there may be some system in play that detects people who are tolerant of all play styles and never leaves dungeons as well as managed to complete them with the team given.

The amount of times i am paired with people who have never done content is quite frequent. Maybe its just cos i play a lot and heal almost exclusively. But i am paired with noobs fairly often which makes me think that i am “picked” to help these people, which i dont mind doing.

Players get a sense of other people when in dungeons. What they do and how they do it or dont do it tells us or gives us the idea that these people have not been here before or done this before.

Most of us who have done this stuff hundreds of times can tell fairly soon if somebody else has done it before. Weird route. Pulling mobs that dont need to be pulled at all. Going down corridors that lead to nowhere.

This is especially true in the older content that is not as linear as what we now have. Dungeons now are mostly on rails. Follow A to B. Jump down and get to C

Older dungeons are a straight up maze and if they dont know the way that shows up right away. Especially to people who know what they are doing.

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If they’re just in it for the gear then thats the problem. There are always going to be players who think they need more gear or a certain level without an endgoal. Its just that blizzard is doing a bad job enableing them. They’re essentially helping people ruin their own experience.

Its not 80%, its an mmo. There are delves and world quests and events and other catchup mechanism. There might have not been an alternative in wrath, there is now.

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Yes we can apply this to m+, I have all the dungeon ports buddy. And even if M+ had a 10hour attunement quest you best be sure I’d do it cause I love progressing m+.

That grinding incentive is what I’m getting at. If you do normal/heroic dungeons for gear, don’t. The Ilvl/h of this is negative. A waste of time. You’d have more gains just crafting.

I have not only provided an alternative but you’re missing the point. You’re a good example of why this abomination of a tool is harmful to people.

And you’re just here trying to spin this issue with hyperbolies and personal attacks. You don’t even play m+. You’ve cleared 2 +10s on this cha and your main respectively. Tourist trying to walz into a hotel telling them how to run things.

edit: emojies are cringe.

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You play an online game with many who thinks they are special snowflakes. My only advise, grow thicker skins or play with friends only.

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Idea I’ve been suggesting forever that should be amicable;

Getting kicked isn’t common. As such first kicks should NOT result in a penalty.

Subsequent kick within the half hour from initial kick will apply the deserter debuff.

Additionally, you should not be grouped with the person that initiated the kick for the remainder of the day… placed on temporary ignore.

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Using logic or sensical answers is not common, I like this advise it is like refreshment for weary eyes :thinking:

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int / afk = fired. This is deserved, and wow is way too lax on this by the way. I’m really tired of seeing players who int or are afk when I play.

Maybe you are really bad, but you play as a team and also penalize a whole team. (Sorry, yes, I know I shock you, but you are not alone. )Think hi before crying, because you are probably the toxic player who slows down the whole team (yes you)