BFA = Battle for the Alliance?

Lore Story
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

The Horde was already losing Darkshore before the Warfront, the same with Ashenvale.


So we was losing it, but now it's contested territory. Thanks, Tyrande.


Haha this is just awesome!

The Horde was losing Darkshore but then Tyrande underwent that mighty ritual... And the Horde actually has a fighting chance now xD
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My opinions on this topic:

-BfA needed a filler expansion, so it could happen in 2020.
Hatred after Legion expansion needed to happen between the Alliance and the Horde, so war could have happen.
Imagine this at your work: you need x amount of time do to your work, your supervisor comes and tells you: "DO IT ON x/2 time !"
Why ? Your customers demand a WARrcraft expansion in 2018 not in 2020, they are tired of PEACEcraft !

-From what I read people posting here, there's 2 writing teams with one leader supervising the final product.
Considering this scenario: I think inconsitencies are bond to happens, even read the ALLIANCE team wrote some of the HORDE plot, in this scenario it makes total sense the Horde is portrait as vilains, who comit genocide and instigate the war.
How this could had even happen in a company as Blizzard beats me.
They did such a AMAZING job portraing the Horde as cowards who ran from the Legion in Broke Shore. That reason alone would be more than justified for the Alliance to initiate hostilities.
But no, Christie golden has to portrait Anduin of Nazareth as: savior of Azeroth and that leaves the Horde to be written as the evil faction, who oposes the chosen one.

-I have beem in this forums since BfA launched from what i have been witnessing:
Alliance community:
Very rarely they discuss among each other, there's usually common ground.
Alliance is rightous and the Horde is evil so their enemie.
Only once I saw disagreement it was about Stormwind becoming the capital of Night elf refugees.

Horde community:
More disagreements than the Alliance community.
The only common gound I see is: everyone hates the Alliance and Anduin.
There's Thrall supporters vs Sylvanas supporters and Saurfang haters vs Garrosh supporters vs Pretty race community (People who are on the Horde for the pretty elf races)
Probably there could be even more factions, but you get the idea.
How can Blizzarda appeal to everyone in this case ? Answer: they can't.

My conclusion:
I consider that BfA is a expansion built for the players, that wanted conflict and from lore perspective you will have a nightmare trying to find anything consistent in this writing.
What you would expect when it's rushed and so many people writing it at the same time.
Imagine everyone here in this post writing the lore for a expansion in record time.
Zarao writing Horde lore versus Arctur writing Alliance lore how well that would end ?

Thanks for your attention.
Cheers.
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Why we couldn't just fight against the Old Gods. Why they had to do such a stupid faction war...
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Short answer alliance bias.
Long answer, apparently we have people in charge of the plot and game who are living out their own fellowship fantasy with the alliance as a faction and see horde players as the worst trash people, who should feel as bad as possible when they progress through the game. Afrasabi and Golden are just the tip of the infamous iceberg here, considering nobody told the alliance design team to stop when they implemented Brennadam. Tells you enough about the mindset of the developers for the story.
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24/10/2018 12:15Posted by Aster

-BfA needed a filler expansion, so it could happen in 2020.
Hatred after Legion expansion needed to happen between the Alliance and the Horde, so war could have happen.
Imagine this at your work: you need x amount of time do to your work, your supervisor comes and tells you: "DO IT ON x/2 time !"
Why ? Your customers demand a WARrcraft expansion in 2018 not in 2020, they are tired of PEACEcraft !


Blizzard many times official sayd that when 1 expansion is in development, another team already works on expansion after that. Some things changes yes, but main plot / theme of exp stays. I think that it have sense becouse developing full game is long process i cant imagine that they do all of it "on demand" in 2y time. But who knows what they are rly doing there :P
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I really can't be surprised anymore.

There is obviously some scheme inside Blizzard HQ, where they say "Hey, how can we !@#$ on the Alliance playerbase even more?", to which someone answers "Let's burn the NE tree, kill thousands of NEs, then raise them into undeath, have Tyrande be absolutely useless and have the Horde get away without any repercussions" and then Ion is like "Brilliant! Make it happen!"

But yeah, poor Horde players. Get to win battle after battle. Get all the cool zones and cities. Get their Allied Races developed first, get better racials. And even if they happen to lose once in a blue moon, they don't really lose. It's just laughable. I used to advocate for "faction balance" but now I just want to see a scenario where the Alliance are actually competent and come on-top. JUST ONCE! For christmas, please.
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24/10/2018 12:37Posted by Beliarh
24/10/2018 12:15Posted by Aster

-BfA needed a filler expansion, so it could happen in 2020.
Hatred after Legion expansion needed to happen between the Alliance and the Horde, so war could have happen.
Imagine this at your work: you need x amount of time do to your work, your supervisor comes and tells you: "DO IT ON x/2 time !"
Why ? Your customers demand a WARrcraft expansion in 2018 not in 2020, they are tired of PEACEcraft !


Blizzard many times official sayd that when 1 expansion is in development, another team already works on expansion after that. Some things changes yes, but main plot / theme of exp stays. I think that it have sense becouse developing full game is long process i cant imagine that they do all of it "on demand" in 2y time. But who knows what they are rly doing there :P

Thanks for the information.

Based on that I conclude:
Something did happened, maybe a suddenly change of mind regarding the expansion theme.
Example: BfA was meant to be a fight for Azeroth against the Old Gods, but they decided to make it a Horde/Alliance war, based on Legion complains.
I remember in Legion expansion, players stating they didn't want to cooperate with the oposing faction and this wasn't World of PEACEcraft etc.

Everyday I read inconsistencies in the Story forum that I am led to believe that this is a rushed product.
The intention was good, the delievery ... not that much.

Cheers.
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24/10/2018 12:58Posted by Anthropea
I really can't be surprised anymore.

There is obviously some scheme inside Blizzard HQ, where they say "Hey, how can we !@#$ on the Alliance playerbase even more?", to which someone answers "Let's burn the NE tree, kill thousands of NEs, then raise them into undeath, have Tyrande be absolutely useless and have the Horde get away without any repercussions" and then Ion is like "Brilliant! Make it happen!"

But yeah, poor Horde players. Get to win battle after battle. Get all the cool zones and cities. Get their Allied Races developed first, get better racials. And even if they happen to lose once in a blue moon, they don't really lose. It's just laughable. I used to advocate for "faction balance" but now I just want to see a scenario where the Alliance are actually competent and come on-top. JUST ONCE! For christmas, please.

Yes if Ion is a EVIL Horde player that thinks Horde should totally dominate and reduce the Alliance to ash, than I will guive that to you.

I hated every single aspect of it:
I love the Horde because of Thrall and the Honor ideal.
From the game: Shogun 1999 "If you lose your Honor you must also lose your head".
That's why I was totally in synchrony with Saurfang, when he wanted to suicide.
He's an Orc they don't have the seppuku ceremony, but he can just trow himself in the enemie lines and die. I would had done the same.

Evil never wins in WoW, that's why i hated the Horde being portrait as a evil faction that goes and burns civilians. That put a giant evil target on Horde's back,
Remeber how every narratives evil vs good ends.
Evil starts strong they do awfull things and by the end when evil is about to win they get hit by a miracle force that saves the good faction and saves the world.

Yeah I guive you that Alliance isn't being well treated, now.
But under the narrative good vs evil the Horde will lose epicaly in the end.
I might be wrong. But that's how i see things now.
And the Alliance getting the uper hand in the following patch, destroying half of the Zandalari fleet and killing Rasthakan just confirms me that.

The only reason I believe the Alliance won't be able to kill Sylvanas is because Blizzard knows that it would have a flood of complains from her supporters.
Curious case of Sylvanas.
A character that grew bigger than the faction she's in, to the point of being more important than the Horde itself. My opinion of course.

Cheers.
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24/10/2018 13:15Posted by Aster

Yes if Ion is a EVIL Horde player that thinks Horde should totally dominate and reduce the Alliance to ash, than I will guive you that to you.


I am not saying he wants to reduce the Alliance to ash but he is in a mythic raiding Horde guild.

Honestly, it's why I reckon he doesn't really lift a finger to balance the PvE scene on both sides.
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24/10/2018 13:27Posted by Thalasdin
24/10/2018 13:15Posted by Aster

Yes if Ion is a EVIL Horde player that thinks Horde should totally dominate and reduce the Alliance to ash, than I will guive you that to you.


I am not saying he wants to reduce the Alliance to ash but he is in a mythic raiding Horde guild.

Honestly, it's why I reckon he doesn't really lift a finger to balance the PvE scene on both sides.

I agree with you on that.
But have some faith.
I don't believe Blizzard wants a mass unsubscription number on Alliance side, or a 70% Horde faction vs 30% Alliance faction.
Things take time to fix, the Alliance might even get next expansion the same work that Horde went trough in TBC.

Cheers.
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One cannot help but wonder how the Alliance has managed to "unite and grow stonger", yet lose pretty much everything in this war so far.
  • Tree gets burned
  • Alliance rushes to claim some city ruins - gets more ruins, uninhabitable and plagued
  • Captures Saurfang - he simply escapes
  • Time to unite - night elves quit
  • Tyrande undertakes an anime fanfic-level transformation to become an extra-strong lady - cannot even destroy Nathanos
  • Alliance strikes back at Zandalar - loses a race leader
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29/10/2018 03:03Posted by Gnomewicked
One cannot help but wonder how the Alliance has managed to "unite and grow stonger", yet lose pretty much everything in this war so far.
  • Tree gets burned
  • Alliance rushes to claim some city ruins - gets more ruins, uninhabitable and plagued
  • Captures Saurfang - he simply escapes
  • Time to unite - night elves quit
  • Tyrande undertakes an anime fanfic-level transformation to become an extra-strong lady - cannot even destroy Nathanos
  • Alliance strikes back at Zandalar - loses a race leader
The horde are the bad guys which lose at the end, because the evil can't win in WoW & also they like to start rebellions against the current bad warchief. The alliance are the stupid white knights which runs in every obvious trap from the horde & also wins against the horde but let them alive, because of reasons.
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29/10/2018 03:03Posted by Gnomewicked
One cannot help but wonder how the Alliance has managed to "unite and grow stonger", yet lose pretty much everything in this war so far.
  • Tree gets burned
  • Alliance rushes to claim some city ruins - gets more ruins, uninhabitable and plagued
  • Captures Saurfang - he simply escapes
  • Time to unite - night elves quit
  • Tyrande undertakes an anime fanfic-level transformation to become an extra-strong lady - cannot even destroy Nathanos
  • Alliance strikes back at Zandalar - loses a race leader


While I see your problems here, at the end, Alliance will win. Sylvanas was made to absolute evil.And absoulte evil loses in WoW at the end of every expansion... every time.

Look at SoO. The ultimate defeat of the horde. Not only Alliace was able to raid the capital city of the horde, no, the Horde invited them to do so...
The ultimate humiliation of the Horde, to need their archenemy to get their city back, and to be allowed to survive as a "faction"... Hell it was even possible to get the Conqueror of Orgrimmar title... a huge middlefinger towards every loyal Horde player.

And guess what. This expansion your faction rescue the horde from a evil Warchief... again... So just wait one or two major patches and kill one of our, onece again completely twisted leaders who throw all their mind away from one day to an other, in a raid...

Most of hordes "wins" are done by dirty warfare. Burn Innocents, throw weapons of mass destruction on cities, using chemical weapons... necromancery... (and gues what, I am sick to see this "wins" as a "honorable" orc...)
If alliance wins, they win by power, or tactical superiority...
The only way the horde survived, is a completly unlogical mind turn of one of the leaders like Anduin after SoO... or Jaina in 8.1.
But hey, if it comforts you, Garrosh turned from cruel, but honorable Leader (He killed a horde general after a long questchain because he bombed a nelf civilians) into rassistic Soziopath in only one expansion...
Sylvanas throws all her "free mind" mintality in the same short time over board. And started a war that she can not win at all...
Thrall turned from responsible leader into "who the !@#$ is horde" guy...

And now? In BfA? I see only three ways, the horde will survive after 8.1:
1) the third power turnes the tides of war, something like Azshara forces Horde and Alliance to ceasefire to save the world (again)
2) Alliance rescures the horde from Sylvanas and allows them to survive (again)
3) Sylvanas uses dirty tricks to weaken the Alliance (again)

I see no way the Horde can win in the "right" way...
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29/10/2018 08:01Posted by Moradur

And now? In BfA? I see only three ways, the horde will survive after 8.1:
1) the third power turnes the tides of war, something like Azshara forces Horde and Alliance to ceasefire to save the world (again)
2) Alliance rescures the horde from Sylvanas and allows them to survive (again)
3) Sylvanas uses dirty tricks to weaken the Alliance (again)

I see no way the Horde can win in the "right" way...

[SPOILERS AHEAD] you have been warned:

I got this in my YouTube recomendations:
"Asmongold Reacts To New BFA Cinematics & Lore"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sE57Epo7ws&list=LL0dGq3xjjiHfSJ5TKQgAzwA&index=2&t=0s
Start the video at 3:10
Probably this has been already debated on the Story forum, but i thought it would help the discussion here.
Talanji summons Vol'Jin spirit, Baine than comes and asks Vol'Jin what spirit told Vol'Jin to chose Sylvanas since she is doing so many things that strain the honor that keeps the Horde together.
Vol'Jin than states that, his memory isn't what it used to be, it is being denied by the shadows and they should watch out. The shadows attack the room after.
Talanji, Baine and Rockan go and ask Bwonsamdi, if he was the one that told Vol'Jin to chose Sylvanas, which he denies.
Talanji, Baine and the spirit of Vol'Jin travel to the frozen throne and ask the Litch King if the voice he heard telling to name Sylvanas as Warchief of the Horde was his, he denies it.
Asmongold than makes theory Sylvanas is just a plot device and she will sacrifice herself for her sisters by the end.

So the conclusion in my opinion:
Horde got manipulated by Old Golds.
Vol'Jin was told by the Old Gods to chose Sylvanas, she was probably, manipulated by them to wage war on the Alliance.
Alliance had to react and fight the Horde.
Anduin is proven right, holding back the Alliance when comes to the final push. He has been stated to be wiser than his years appears.
Saurfang going away from Sylvanas is proven to be the right choice, he was manipulated by his Warchief in to wage war against the Night Elfs, like he said:
"There was no honor in this, they will come for us now".
In the end, none will win, since the war, it's not justified, the Old Gods are to be blamed for the War in BfA.

Thanks for your attention.
Cheers.
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29/10/2018 08:01Posted by Moradur
29/10/2018 03:03Posted by Gnomewicked
One cannot help but wonder how the Alliance has managed to "unite and grow stonger", yet lose pretty much everything in this war so far.
  • Tree gets burned
  • Alliance rushes to claim some city ruins - gets more ruins, uninhabitable and plagued
  • Captures Saurfang - he simply escapes
  • Time to unite - night elves quit
  • Tyrande undertakes an anime fanfic-level transformation to become an extra-strong lady - cannot even destroy Nathanos
  • Alliance strikes back at Zandalar - loses a race leader


While I see your problems here, at the end, Alliance will win. Sylvanas was made to absolute evil.And absoulte evil loses in WoW at the end of every expansion... every time.

Look at SoO. The ultimate defeat of the horde. Not only Alliace was able to raid the capital city of the horde, no, the Horde invited them to do so...
The ultimate humiliation of the Horde, to need their archenemy to get their city back, and to be allowed to survive as a "faction"... Hell it was even possible to get the Conqueror of Orgrimmar title... a huge middlefinger towards every loyal Horde player.

And guess what. This expansion your faction rescue the horde from a evil Warchief... again... So just wait one or two major patches and kill one of our, onece again completely twisted leaders who throw all their mind away from one day to an other, in a raid...

Most of hordes "wins" are done by dirty warfare. Burn Innocents, throw weapons of mass destruction on cities, using chemical weapons... necromancery... (and gues what, I am sick to see this "wins" as a "honorable" orc...)
If alliance wins, they win by power, or tactical superiority...
The only way the horde survived, is a completly unlogical mind turn of one of the leaders like Anduin after SoO... or Jaina in 8.1.
But hey, if it comforts you, Garrosh turned from cruel, but honorable Leader (He killed a horde general after a long questchain because he bombed a nelf civilians) into rassistic Soziopath in only one expansion...
Sylvanas throws all her "free mind" mintality in the same short time over board. And started a war that she can not win at all...
Thrall turned from responsible leader into "who the !@#$ is horde" guy...

And now? In BfA? I see only three ways, the horde will survive after 8.1:
1) the third power turnes the tides of war, something like Azshara forces Horde and Alliance to ceasefire to save the world (again)
2) Alliance rescures the horde from Sylvanas and allows them to survive (again)
3) Sylvanas uses dirty tricks to weaken the Alliance (again)

I see no way the Horde can win in the "right" way...


World of Warcraft has always been an alliance exclusive wank fest. It's never too late to realize this simple truth. :-)
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Stronger.. right.. maybe humans are shown strong and united. Night elves are just incompetent baffoons as always.
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29/10/2018 08:01Posted by Moradur
1) the third power turnes the tides of war, something like Azshara forces Horde and Alliance to ceasefire to save the world (again)
2) Alliance rescures the horde from Sylvanas and allows them to survive (again)
3) Sylvanas uses dirty tricks to weaken the Alliance (again)

Times change-Garrosh, stupid orc.
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@Aster thanks for your answer.

But manipulation does not redeem a whole faction from crimes it commits.

Even more:
It is kinda Sad beeing mindless Idiot with excuse of beeing manipulated mindless Idiot.

I am a wise shaman... I even have a spell, far sight but yea it seems to be space limited... not to use with timed components... As I was manipulated ones by Garrosh/Old Gogs and now by Sylvanas/Old Gods... But hey Blizzard stated, it is not MoP vol. 2...
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29/10/2018 09:06Posted by Pinkfist
29/10/2018 08:01Posted by Moradur
1) the third power turnes the tides of war, something like Azshara forces Horde and Alliance to ceasefire to save the world (again)
2) Alliance rescures the horde from Sylvanas and allows them to survive (again)
3) Sylvanas uses dirty tricks to weaken the Alliance (again)

Times change-Garrosh, stupid orc.


Uhm sorry I do not understand little flea. To busy commiting warcrimes for my manipulated warchief... Please explain what you mean...
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29/10/2018 09:26Posted by Moradur
Uhm sorry I do not understand little flea. To busy commiting warcrimes for my manipulated warchief... Please explain what you mean...

he was stupid orc when said this, nothing changed. Its all same, story is in circles.
I am not flea, i am night elf kid :P